Question for the better informed about this hire: ...
- Thread starter Shmuley
- Start date
Only way this one can be evaluated is on the field results over the next 3 years. Anything else is blah blah blah.
I think most sports have similar signing windows. One in the fall and one in the spring. Since baseball overlaps the one in the spring, I think most action happens during the early period - from November 14th to the 21st. I'm not sure how much impact he will have on this upcoming class. If he's the hot shot recruiter that everyone says he is, then his first call needs to be to J. T. Ginn, but I still think that's a pipe dream.
That is the thing with baseball recruiting, they commit so far out. I think we have ninth graders committed. I guess we need to keep an eye on current commits and if we lose any, watch who we replace them with.
Lemonis gets a lot of credit (from McDonnell even) for what McDonnell was able to get started at Louisville.
Lemonis gets a lot of credit (from McDonnell even) for what McDonnell was able to get started at Louisville.
Class of 19 is pretty much baked and he will be behind on 20. But our classes are already strong see if they can hold them
Its why the henderson crowd was so shortsighted. These teams take forever to build.
His 18,19 and 20 classes at Indiana were 39,36 and 33 i believe. Thats strong.
Its why the henderson crowd was so shortsighted. These teams take forever to build.
His 18,19 and 20 classes at Indiana were 39,36 and 33 i believe. Thats strong.
He would have to be a miracle worker to convince a kid to turn down over 2 million dollars.
Yep. We’re just now going to see the first and only “Cannizaro” class here in the fall which still had many many guys that Cohen laid the groundwork in landing. Cohen has had two full seasons out of the game, and the team that just made the run to Omaha were still basically all his guys with the exception of the grad transfer guys (Neff and France). That’s how long the recruiting cycles run in baseball....Cohen is still gonna have a lot of his fingerprints on the team even next year. All of the position guys will still be his guys with the possible exception of whoever replaces Stovall (if he goes pro) and if we find an alternative to Skelton / Gilbert behind the dish.
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There is no doubt the guy knows how to croot- that has never been in question. It’s the other stuff that I’m in wait and see mode about...
I will be totally shocked if we see Ginn on campus. I don't think he would turn down that money regardless of the hire.
Well I can tell you that our classes for the next couple of years are already pretty solid. I have a connections with this and they are sold on Msu not so much who was gonna be our coach. These recruits talk on snap chat and they keep up with one another. We are fixn to have the best recruiting classes ever for the next few years and Lemonis is inheriting a ton of awesome commitments.
Recruiting:
Gene says this guy brought 10 first and second rounders to Louisville in 7 years. I don’t think we’ve done that since the 80’s.
Plus
Defense:
Looking at what stats I could see, it looks like Indiana defended extremely well.
Positive
Offense:
No idea. He was Louisville hitting coach, but he has Gautreau who appears to do this well.
Positive
Pitching:
This is the trick. Who will the pitching coach be? I think this is where this hire will be decided.
TBD
What else?
Gene says this guy brought 10 first and second rounders to Louisville in 7 years. I don’t think we’ve done that since the 80’s.
Plus
Defense:
Looking at what stats I could see, it looks like Indiana defended extremely well.
Positive
Offense:
No idea. He was Louisville hitting coach, but he has Gautreau who appears to do this well.
Positive
Pitching:
This is the trick. Who will the pitching coach be? I think this is where this hire will be decided.
TBD
What else?
If it comes out in the media that Cohen had this guy in his top 5 all along, will anyone believe it?
I mean you all believed everything else in the media so surely you could believe that right?
It’s just hypothetical. Trying to see who will be hypocritical.
I mean you all believed everything else in the media so surely you could believe that right?
It’s just hypothetical. Trying to see who will be hypocritical.
Unless it has changed- and it does from time to time- coaches can start contacting potential recruits in July. I'm not sure of the exact date this year but it's usually around the fourth of July. A lot of times with baseball you'll see official visits in July and August and there will be some camps too. Other baseball players take official visits during football season when a football game is going on too.
he is surely on a lot of winning programs.
http://iuhoosiers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=1724&path=baseball&
http://iuhoosiers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=1724&path=baseball&
I might would believe it.
Corbin, Schloss, McDonald, Tadlock, [Gap] Butch? Lemonis?
Am I forgetting some names? I would assume that Cohen's "bench" goes much further than most fans, and that half the names in his top 10 would be people not on our radar. Such as people going to Godwin or the guy at ULL. Wouldn't be shocked at all if neither of those was in Cohen's top 15 or even 20.
Exactly, if JT Ginn turns down first round money to play at MSU then he is automatically my new favorite MSU baseball player.
Im taking a wait and see approach and will support the guy but some people are acting like how dare we question the greatest baseball mind whoever lived in John Cohen for hiring him. His results are decent but not great at Indiana. This is far from a HR hire on paper. It’s just hilarious to see the mental gymnastics some people are doing defending Cohen and the hire on message boards and twitter.
From SPS 6/4/2018:
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/show...of-our-baseball-program&p=1492438#post1492438
Originally Posted by tatedog
If we win today, it will be our third straight super regional under three different coaches. Mississippi State baseball is a tradition that is bigger than any man.
Folks need to remember this when we hire a new coach and get their expectations in check. We've just had a year where the head coach was dismissed the first weekend and played the first two weeks on the road and we still not only made the postseason, we have excelled.
I am confident Cohen will hire a great coach that fits us better than we might think at first glance, after all, he was a coach and player at MSU so he knows our program better than the average fan. What I am trying to say is that Cohen is looking for more than a name, he is looking for the best man we can get to run our baseball program.
I would rather have the right fit than the right name anyway.
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/show...of-our-baseball-program&p=1492438#post1492438
If we win today, it will be our third straight super regional under three different coaches. Mississippi State baseball is a tradition that is bigger than any man.
Folks need to remember this when we hire a new coach and get their expectations in check. We've just had a year where the head coach was dismissed the first weekend and played the first two weeks on the road and we still not only made the postseason, we have excelled.
I am confident Cohen will hire a great coach that fits us better than we might think at first glance, after all, he was a coach and player at MSU so he knows our program better than the average fan. What I am trying to say is that Cohen is looking for more than a name, he is looking for the best man we can get to run our baseball program.
I would rather have the right fit than the right name anyway.
Guy on the board looked at the recruiting numbers. Louisville's recruiting improved after he left. Indiana's recruiting has been about the same after he was hired.
I think there is a pretty big gap between Butch and Lemonis, too. Butch has 2 regionals in 3 years in the toughest conference in baseball, 1 super regional, and possibly a bounced ball off a glove away from Omaha. In fact, the most shocking thing to me is that either Butch didn’t want the job or Cohen actually chose Lemonis over Butch. Either would be pretty unbelievable, especially considering how many connections Butch has to Starkville (both recruiting-wise and personal / family connections). The resumes aren’t even close to comparable.
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While Lemonis was Assistant at Louisville
2013: Louisville #37, Indiana #46
2014: Louisville #26, Indiana #46
Average: Louisville #32, Indiana #46
While Lemonis was Head Coach at Indiana
2017: Louisville #23, Indiana #64
2018: Louisville #9, Indiana #39
Average: Louisville #16, Indiana #52
So Louisville's recruiting rankings improved after Lemonis left for Indiana, while Indiana's did not improve.
But Jean says he is the #1 recruiter in the nation. It’s so hard to decide what to believe these days**
Not getting into a debate, but, per a point about how a coach’s legacy of recruiting lasts through a LONG recruiting cycle, shouldn’t he be getting credit for the 3 years after he left Louisville? Either way, there was a bounce his 2nd year at IU. So if he doesn’t get credit for the 3 Year’s at UL, then that nice year 2 bump should be a positive on his side. I’m just playing devil’s advocate.
All the other four have extensive track records. Even if Butch's resume is better (I'm not sure 2 regionals and a super regional in three years in the SEC is clearly better than 3 regionals in 4 years at Indiana?), both of them have a track record as a head coach short enough that I would say their grade is an incomplete.
Can't argue with facts^^^ Gene and the rest throwing out the company line on this guy are full of ****. This could turn out to be a big hire but, why should a fan base as loyal to baseball always have to have a wait and see approach with a coach. Get on that is proven, dammit!!!!!!
I got a question. How do us lesser informed tell who the better informed are? They apparently aren't posting much since the only Lemonis I knew anything about before today was named Marcus.
Certainly never been in question for me since I didn't know his name 24 hours ago.
I don’t know a thing about Lemonis, and I’m not sure than many folks on this board do, but I know two things...
1) a guy that seemed to be doing jack squat on the college football recruiting scene about 4 months ago now has the #7 class in the country for 2019
2) a guy that I didn’t think could coach his way out of a paper sack 2 months ago got our baseball team within one game of the finals
In other words, I’m gonna give this thing some time to play out before going to any extremes. With the team he had returning next year, we should get a pretty decent litmus test in a short amount of time
1) a guy that seemed to be doing jack squat on the college football recruiting scene about 4 months ago now has the #7 class in the country for 2019
2) a guy that I didn’t think could coach his way out of a paper sack 2 months ago got our baseball team within one game of the finals
In other words, I’m gonna give this thing some time to play out before going to any extremes. With the team he had returning next year, we should get a pretty decent litmus test in a short amount of time
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