Question about Dean Smith's "Gift"

[G0BigBLUE00]

A few years ago, Coach Cal and his wife attempted to start a foundation for his former players that would finance tuition/books/etc.for the children of former players. The NCAA reviewed his request and dis-allowed it.

You can't do whatever you want to former players.

Click the link to see the explanation.....

This post was edited on 3/27 12:48 PM by G0BigBLUE00

NCAA says "No" to Cal's proposed foundation..

 

[preacherfan]

The NCAA is a mess an NOBODY clearly understands the rules. Here is a quote from Georgia's compliance page:



"The origin and duration of a relationship and the consistency of benefits provided during the relationship are key factors in determining whether the benefits provided are contrary to the spirit and intent of NCAA legislation. If the answer is "no" to any of these questions, the benefit may not be provided by the booster to the prospective, current or former student-athlete.



Although it is not permissible to provide gifts or cash to student-athletes who graduate, the NCAA does allow boosters to hire former student-athletes upon graduation and allows boosters and former student-athletes to be involved in legitimate business opportunities/arrangements."



http://www.thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/about/rules.php

 

[Aike]

Originally posted by far_away_fan:

Originally posted by Aike:

Originally posted by far_away_fan:

Originally posted by GTownJJB:
It's a silly complaint, but two points:

(1) It doesn't matter whether Dean Smith told his players that he'd eventually give them a cash benefit after they'd exhausted their eligibility. Their prior knowledge is irrelevant. Technically, it's an improper benefit because someone associated with the university who would qualify as a "booster" under NCAA rules provided something to UNC players and UNC players alone, and the gift was premised solely upon their participation in UNC athletics.

On the contrary, what he told them does matter. Because if he promised the gift while he was coaching them or recruiting them, then it would have been an improper benefit WHILE they were players. You can't give players or recruits things of value, and the promise of future payment has present value.

You can pretty much do whatever you want for FORMER players. Boosters give former players jobs. They take them out for meals and rounds of golf. They give all kinds of benefits to FORMER players that they couldn't give to current players (or recruits).

Of course this happens, but you are completely wrong here. By NCAA rules, you can't do whatever you want for former players. Any benefit that can be construed as being given due to your involvement in athletics is disallowed for the rest of your life.

It's ridiculous, and silly, and obviously broken a million times a year. But that's what the rule is. And in my mind, that is what this discussion is about. Silly, overbearing NCAA rules. Not a coach buying his players dinner.

You could be right, but I'd be shocked. First, every rule I've been able to find applies only to enrolled students or recruits. None (that I have found) apply to former players. Second, if what you say is true, then the way former players of many big-time programs get treated by boosters would certainly be landing people in hot water regularly. That just doesn't happen as far as I know.

Preacherfan's post above specifically mentioned former student-athletes and wedding gifts.

I don't want to talk about it anymore. It's really dumb, and hardly enforceable. Which is probably why we only hear about it when somebody gets caught doing something stupid - like smoking dope in his former coach's $600,000 house where the ex-player apparently lives rent free.

 

[wcc31]

Originally posted by 3rex:

He didn't will it to a player. He willed it to former players.

I am by no means a Dean Smith or UNC fan, but he did a good thing. Why can't we just leave it at that as opposed to making it into something terrible/controversial?

Because some of these guys are miserable pricks if we're being honest.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

Half of them were ineligible anyways, so what's the big deal?

 

[Spanish Radio]

Originally posted by far_away_fan:
Two reasons why this is not any kind of violation.

First, Smith almost certainly never told players or recruits he would give them money at some point in the future. (He might have told them they could all major in African American studies and graduate without any work, but that's another issue.) Had he done so, that would almost certainly be a violation. Without him having done so, it isn't a violation.

Second, Smith hasn't been the coach for 15 years, and his players haven't been eligible for 15 years. Do you really think the NCAA can hold the university responsible for the actions of its coach from 15 years ago? If Joe B Hall pays for Kenny Walker's dinner at Coles 735 Main, do you think the NCAA is going to put UK on probation?

Ole' Roy did not tell his players that they were going to receive benefits post graduation but Kansas got in trouble. It is the cradle to the grave rule.

Dean Smith was a booster and a former employee. Right or wrong that is the rule. Maybe it should time out after ten years and be capped at a certain dollar level. It is a really tough area to legislate and may be just spitting in the wind.


Kansas: Cradle to the grave

 

[preacherfan]

Originally posted by martinsm30:

Originally posted by far_away_fan:
Two reasons why this is not any kind of violation.

First, Smith almost certainly never told players or recruits he would give them money at some point in the future. (He might have told them they could all major in African American studies and graduate without any work, but that's another issue.) Had he done so, that would almost certainly be a violation. Without him having done so, it isn't a violation.

Second, Smith hasn't been the coach for 15 years, and his players haven't been eligible for 15 years. Do you really think the NCAA can hold the university responsible for the actions of its coach from 15 years ago? If Joe B Hall pays for Kenny Walker's dinner at Coles 735 Main, do you think the NCAA is going to put UK on probation?

Ole' Roy did not tell his players that they were going to receive benefits post graduation but Kansas got in trouble. It is the cradle to the grave rule.

Dean Smith was a booster and a former employee. Right or wrong that is the rule. Maybe it should time out after ten years and be capped at a certain dollar level. It is a really tough area to legislate and may be just spitting in the wind.

"The mistake is once a student-athlete, always a student-athlete. So you can't receive any funds or any goods once you graduate," KU athletic director Lew Perkins said at a news conference called to reveal the infractions, as well as penalties imposed by KU.

 

[far_away_fan]

Originally posted by preacherfan:

Originally posted by martinsm30:

Originally posted by far_away_fan:
Two reasons why this is not any kind of violation.

First, Smith almost certainly never told players or recruits he would give them money at some point in the future. (He might have told them they could all major in African American studies and graduate without any work, but that's another issue.) Had he done so, that would almost certainly be a violation. Without him having done so, it isn't a violation.

Second, Smith hasn't been the coach for 15 years, and his players haven't been eligible for 15 years. Do you really think the NCAA can hold the university responsible for the actions of its coach from 15 years ago? If Joe B Hall pays for Kenny Walker's dinner at Coles 735 Main, do you think the NCAA is going to put UK on probation?

Ole' Roy did not tell his players that they were going to receive benefits post graduation but Kansas got in trouble. It is the cradle to the grave rule.

Dean Smith was a booster and a former employee. Right or wrong that is the rule. Maybe it should time out after ten years and be capped at a certain dollar level. It is a really tough area to legislate and may be just spitting in the wind.

"The mistake is once a student-athlete, always a student-athlete. So you can't receive any funds or any goods once you graduate," KU athletic director Lew Perkins said at a news conference called to reveal the infractions, as well as penalties imposed by KU.

Thanks! That's just as interesting a quote as it is a ridiculous policy for the NCAA to have!

So a booster is a booster for life. And a student-athlete is a student athlete for life. That only leaves one issue to resolve. Dean Smith was a booster. Is the estate of Dean Smith also a booster?

 

[preacherfan]

"The mistake is once a student-athlete, always a student-athlete. So you can't receive any funds or any goods once you graduate," KU athletic director Lew Perkins said at a news conference called to reveal the infractions, as well as penalties imposed by KU.

Thanks! That's just as interesting a quote as it is a ridiculous policy for the NCAA to have!

So a booster is a booster for life. And a student-athlete is a student athlete for life. That only leaves one issue to resolve. Dean Smith was a booster. Is the estate of Dean Smith also a booster?

 

[420grover]

I doubt that Dean told Jordan or anybody else that after he died they were going to get 200 bucks. It's not something he'd been planning for 30 years. I thought it was a great gesture.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Probably the last installment on their payments for their time playing at unc

 

[saxonburgcat]

Originally posted by wcc31:

Originally posted by 3rex:

He didn't will it to a player. He willed it to former players.

I am by no means a Dean Smith or UNC fan, but he did a good thing. Why can't we just leave it at that as opposed to making it into something terrible/controversial?

Because some of these guys are miserable pricks if we're being honest.

are you really a moron or is it your time of the month? not one person is bashing dean and you are crying like a little girl who wasn't invited to the party