Quarterback battle thread…

eyesofhawk

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Apr 17, 2011
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When arguing against what the primary purpose of offense is in football, no, it doesn’t.

I really don’t understand what your end game is here, eyes, other than to argue frivolous absurdities. Yes, everyone (or mostly everyone) is aware of how piss poor the OL was for a couple years. The greater question is, how did a 20 + year veteran coach, who specializes in OL play, allow the OL to get so god awful that a multiple-season reboot was required? A down year? Sure, it happens. But you’re trying to convince everyone it’s logical for that many P4 college O-linemen to require 3 years to get big and strong enough to be at least reasonably competitive? That is honestly your hot take? That is insanely idiotic. It makes no sense.

Why is it so hard to admit KF took a gamble by trying to launch Tommy Boy’s career and it absolutely backfired? At the end of the day, Brian was instrumental in recruiting players, developing players, coaching players, evaluating players, game planning, game managing, etc. I mean, this really isn’t difficult, eyes. It really isn’t.

Yes, absolutely, so much more goes into fielding a competitive football team than what the average football fan would understand. Most of us get that. The problem is a high football acumen is not required to understand that after multiple seasons of the offense being at the bottom of the country in nearly all statistical categories that something just isn’t working. And I don’t care how many times KF came out to the media to try to put lipstick on a pig. No father can ever be objective about their son. It’s just not possible. At the end of the day, Brian just wasn’t working out. And KF was never going to admit it.

Again, I don’t know what your end game is here, eyes, but you are on a fool’s errand and looking absolutely ridiculous in the process. Seriously. This is not a matter of “you guys just don’t get it.” This is a matter of you stubbornly and unfathomably trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t when it comes to the sh*t show disaster that was the Brian Ferentz OC experiment. Just stop. No one is taking you seriously.
It's really quite sad that you've turned this into a BF thing.

But your question about how the o-line got to such a bad place in its lean years has been answered IN DETAIL, MANY times. I have a hard time believing that you've missed that information, so just stop.

I'm not going to repeat it all to you. But as much as it kills some of you, it was a result of a confluence of factors, that simply amounted to bad luck.

It's funny how that's the only way such a thing could happen to a 20+ year successful coach that specializes in o-line.

I have never given any opinion on BF, as an OC, other than I didn't care for him. And from my extremely underinformed position, I didn’t think he had a great feel as a playcaller.

My commentary on the BF subject has only ever been about extreme mischaracterization of the situation from fans. Read better.

You continue to mischaracterize in this post with inaccuracies and a pathetic claim of nepotism.

And I'm left in the familiar position between being enraged and feeling sorry for you
 

eyesofhawk

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One encouraging thing:

Since somehow ol' Eyes hasn't received the BanHammer, we can rest assured that our forum isn't a "ban for virtually nothing" site like STATE's, Nebraska's, and Ped State's.

:)
Given that you have me on "ignore", just curious what you have deemed to be ban worthy behavior from me
 

83Hawk

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Jan 1, 2023
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- No, this discussion concerns how qb's can help their defense by not putting them in bad spots.

As a rebuttal, in attempt to minimize the importance of risk assessment, Ragnar stated that the "primary purpose of the offense is to score points."

He has also doubled down by stating the "job of the offense is to score, unequivocally."

I'm pretty sure he's not even conceding running out the clock situations. There are people that will tell you, that even in that situation, nothing better than a TD could possibly occur.

For one thing, that is incorrect. Scoring a TD will give the ball back to the opponent. And if the opponent in turn, scores a TD+2, the original offense comes out behind on that exchange, and worse off than if the opponent had never touched the ball. Same dynamic if the opponent in turn, scores a TD and recovers an onside kick.

But mainly, those who believe this, don't understand that to strive for maximum offensive production, carries a level of risk, that at some point just isn't worth it, when you're playing against the clock. That's why at the extreme end of this dynamic, teams literally take a knee to close the game.

- I clearly said, "the primary purpose of the offense is not to put points on the board, BUT RATHER, to do whatever it takes to help the team win the game."

And you clearly left that 2nd part (the point) out. People can read.

And if you're going to try to play semantics, you should be reminded that in addition to "primary purpose", the "job" of the offense has also been taken into question in this thread.

- Whether you want to call it the job of the offense, or the priority, or the assignment, or the strategy, or the approach, or even when talking "primary purpose", the most accurate and all-encompassing way to describe it is, "to help give the team its best chance to win."

There does come a point in games when it's time to prioritize playing vs the clock.

The most extreme downing of the ball is at the end of a sliding scale of risk tolerance, that can correspond with a sliding scale of priority to clock.

For programs like Iowa, that have strong running games and defenses that can be weapons, those sliding scales can extend to the majority the 4th quarter.

Similarly, the entire game requires risk assessment. When is potentially giving up field position not worth the risk? When is potentially giving up momentum not worth the risk? Every offensive drive comes with TL, KF, and PP taking the defense into consideration. They manage all the spots in which scoring is not the priority, that you have called, "situational".

But if not prioritizing scoring seems too situational for you, let me tell you what is fundamental. Punting. How "primary" can scoring be to offense, when the majority of offensive possessions end up with an offensive down literally being forfeited, for the sake of the defense?

This literal forfeiture of the ability to even try for offensive production, is so fundamental to the game, that it's part of how a sport that rarely sees the ball touch a foot, got named "football"
Read better.
 

Grayhair1981

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Sep 3, 2006
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- Again, you guys try to put a lot of words into my mouth and make this about things that I haven't commented about.

Again, the only point I've elaborated about is the fact that Iowa's defense wouldn't have been as good as it's been over 2.5 decades, had it's qb's put them in more bad spots. (There’s also an overarching point about fans assigning credit/blame to individual phases, and ignoring the complementary component of it. But we'll leave that asside for now).

You can try to make it into whatever you want. But I don't think there's any arguing the fact that Iowa's D wouldn't have been as good all these years had their qb's put the D in more bad spots. And again, I can promise you Iowa's qb's have been coached to play with their defense in mind.

- As for the stuff you've tried to make it into:

- You seem to imply that I'm advocating for ultra-conservative qb play, which I clearly did not.

- Iowa had a losing streak vs top 25 teams because of multiple turnovers? Thoughtful take there.

- No, the primary purpose of an offense is not to put points on the board, but rather, to do whatever it takes to help the team win the game. That's why later in games, teams determine the clock to be the main opponent when attempting to close out games.

- Not sure why you gave a 3rd and 8 example in realtion to how to move chains. If you're in 3rd and 8 very often, those chains won't be moving much. So you better be able to run it on early downs, if you want to talk moving the chains.

- I know you aren't at many games, as you've told us times you even quit watching them on TV. So tell me, how is it that you are able to comment on qb reads, without most of 3rd level action even fitting on the horizontal angle of TV broadcasts? (I'm guessing you don't have access to endzone or sky cam footage). Wait, silly me, why would I expect you to need footage of the defensive backfield to examine qb reads, when you've many times, given us your opinions without having even watched the games?

- Now, in fairness, you at least seem to recognize a couple seasons that simply came down to the o-line, and rendered so many narratives to be so secondary, at best.

- What you deemed to be not winning football averaged 9 wins over those 2 seasons, and won a division title.

- You first seemed to imply that less conservatism in the pass game is what it takes to move the chains. Then you use Grono as an example of playmaking. But Grono took almost zero risks through the air. His plays were made with his legs, and many were designed runs. Run the ball.

- Two things that must happen to be successful on 3rd downs are a good enough running game to stay out of 3rd and long, and a good enough running game to convert on 3rd and short. So, thanks for bringing up moving the chains. Run the ball.

- You are correct. Help the D by keeping them off the field. And especially with a lead, by keeping the clock running. Run the ball
Yeah they absolutely beat the punting is winning narrative to death under Biff. Dead last in 23 at 11 punts per 100 plays. Punted on average 3.5 more times per game compared to the median of FBS teams. During his tenure, the median was 6.5 punts per 100 plays. Iowa averaged 8.7 during those years. It wasn't just 21-23.
Crazy like a fox, man.
 
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eyesofhawk

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Yeah they absolutely beat the punting is winning narrative to death under Biff. Dead last in 23 at 11 punts per 100 plays. Punted on average 3.5 more times per game compared to the median of FBS teams. During his tenure, the median was 6.5 punts per 100 plays. Iowa averaged 8.7 during those years. It wasn't just 21-23.
Crazy like a fox, man.
So, it sounds like a great punting game was a big part of the winning.

Who beat the "punting is winning" narrative to death? It was sarcastically coined by fans, as I recall.

I'm not really sure what you're point is. But would comparing '21-'23 to '17-'20 not make more sense than lumping '21-'23 in with the entire 7 years?
 

Hawkfan_08*

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in response to your email if tom decides it’s easier to just shutdown this free board let’s all meetup on clemson’s football forum and make a niche for ourselves. they are a rather welcoming bunch. im mentioning this right now so it’s easy to continue iowa fb discussions without missing a beat.

Some are welcoming. I'm not sure a ton enjoyed the liberal views on the off topic board.
 
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Natchrlman2

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He's trying to drive traffic to the paid board.
pay boards the same bullsh!t only you pay…… does have more insider stuff though

I’ve been on these boards since the HR beginning…… mostly on the pay board……they never change ….. I finally became tired of paying to read people arguing constantly and avoided the boards all together for a couple years……. didn’t miss it…. huge waste of time……. but here I am
 

uihawk82

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Didn’t see a thread about this other than the Ferentz quarterback controversy history that was started a few months ago.

Any tidbits on who might be separating himself a little bit or is it still neck and neck?
This reply is based on a lot of the arguing going on in this thread,.

#1 The offense, S Teams, or even the defense needs to score at least 2 pts to win.

#2 Realistically in this day and age of college football with relaxed rules in the passing game it is hard to keep teams under 20 pts. Phil does it with pixie dust, a magician.

#3 You need an offense that averages at least 28 pts or a scoring team that averages 28 but 31 to 35 pts is even better.

This is failing logic "If you need to avg 21 pts to win most games and if your team only averages 13 pts (like we did for a couple recent years) THEN you are going to lose most games. I hope to see the offense avg about 35 a game this year.

We avgd 28.5 points per game last year but about 28 even in the Big Ten.

You all know that 4 extra TDs in 4 games and the hawks are 12-0 last year.

So yes the offense needs to score and 35 a game this year might be needed with some many new faces on the defense
 

Hawkangler

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Is it McCann or Banks this year??????
Hecklinski is not in the same league as Banks. Actually, I think Brown has a stronger arm than McCann. Rewatched the spring game yesterday, Heck looks to run pretty quick. Looks to fit the roll ouy model.

Will be interesting to see who wins the position battle. Both will play against Northern Illinois, the starter will be named for the ISU game.
 

HAWKNESS

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Hecklinski is not in the same league as Banks. Actually, I think Brown has a stronger arm than McCann. Rewatched the spring game yesterday, Heck looks to run pretty quick. Looks to fit the roll ouy model.

Will be interesting to see who wins the position battle. Both will play against Northern Illinois, the starter will be named for the ISU game.
Based off what I've read here and from Iowa media I'd be very suprised if Brown isn't the initial choice. Seems to fit more of the typical KF QB prototype. Big, strong arm, and less risk adverse. It's possible though that Lester gets final say though and prefers a more versatile qb like Heck. Brown would be my betting favorite
 

85Bears

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Aug 31, 2019
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Really nobody has any clue who looks better or who should start, just narratives. I would think Heck like everybody else, but Brown could have matured, throwing strong accurate passes, efficient and smart. Who the hell knows.
 
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Towlie

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May 27, 2026
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They both should play early. Let the in game performance decide. The fanbase will revolt if Hank is chosen and we don't even get to see Heck.
 
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