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- Thread starter inWV
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So we shouldn’t seek attrition this spring, since it doesn’t make sense... let it play out. But attrition next spring is fine? Not sure I’m following...
I always took a shine to Simone in that movie. One thing that always puzzled me. When the girls were getting ready for the big night out, cruising and going to the keggar, they laid down and used pliers to zip up their pants. What did they do later when they had to go to the bathroom? Did they carry Channelocks in their purses?
All attrition under Frost is good. It means you can't hack it. It means you aren't The Nebraska Way.
Next man up
Is Frost really going to base his roster on pot violations? Huskers will play against teams that can legally use pot...this is akin to cutting 21 year olds because they had a beer. He was the beneficiary of some very suspect behaviors in the 90s, including drug use of many kinds. Its cool to have a lot of straight laced players but...
I actually think players are more like sheep today.
Can't piss anybody off on Instagram. Or Twitter. Or Facebook
Which teams can use pot? The last time I checked (a second ago) marijuana was still listed as a banned susbtance by the NCAA.
The 3 "extra" players over the summer is irrelevant. Having players that haven't produced and haven't cracked 4th string by their 3rd year in the program, aren't going to suddenly have something click. Opening up scholarships for the next class, especially when the class is already small, is a sound practice.
What makes no sense is to keep players on the roster just for the sake of keeping them on the roster. We will have attrition every year. Getting to and staying at 85 is always going to be tough thing to do. When there are scholarship players that aren't seeing the field, they are going to want to leave. When freshmen and sophomores are passing juniors on the depth chart, that can and should lead to juniors leaving.
The fact that a player can leave between February and May, after the current class has signed also contributes to the difficulty in staying at 85 heading into fall camp.
Lastly, the scholarships will not go unused. A walk on or a grad transfer will be awarded the scholarship. I would rather a dude like Hixon be given a scholarship, than have Dixon or Alexander still around next season.
Cam Jones was just a freshman and he transferred. Many people thought Dixon would be an instant starter. Though maybe their heads aren't in the right place, they both had a lot of talent. With what are thought to be our most talented recruits when they come in, we can't have them continue to leave at the rate they have been and expect to have a lot of success.
Moving the goal posts.......again.
Talented recruits that don't do what they need to do to get on the field and make contributions are no better than a low talent player that goes to every class and has a 4.0 gpa. IF YOU CANT GET ON THE FIELD YOU HAVE NO VALUE TO A FOOTBALL TEAM.
Dixon is about to be at his 3rd school in 3 years, and hasn't seen the field but for 4 games at Ole Miss. Cam Jones couldn't find his way to the classroom. Quayshon was called out by other players for not doing what needed to be done and has never played in a single game at Nebraska.
Don't confuse talent with production.
The problem prior to Frost showing up was little effort was given to moving kids along that were never going to contribute. If a kid is behind 2-deep + the kids who are competing to eventually be on the 2-deep and show no signs of getting in the mix (and in some cases, falling behind walk ons), what exactly is the value of having them on scholarship past "honoring the committment". If a kid is no longer physically able to compete like Tre, they can get a medical. If a kid is being outworked by guys paying their own way, why is NU paying their way.
Because if a kid is willing to put in the work, isn't getting into trouble and is fine being 4th string, it is just harder to get rid of them than it used to be. Why is Daishon Neal still here? He has 6 tackles in 3 years, and has played in 5 of 37 possible games.
Again, not saying I agree with it, but you just can't cut a guy anymore. Like I said, if a dude is willing to put up with the crap, he can stay here and get his degree.
I'm all in favor as long as they have scholarship (or genuinely scholarship-worthy) guys to be the "next man up" come November when injuries start piling up. If classes in the 20-signees range continue, they should be in good shape.
Typically, half of every class is not going to "meet their potential". Basically 45 of the 85 guys on scholarship.
Yes injuries happen and depth is needed, but for the most part, at almost every school in America, games are won and lost with the top 45 guys on the roster.
If a player isn't in that top 45, they will either relegate themselves to being happy to be part of the team, continue to work, go to class and be a good citizen (Daishon Neal types) or they will decide to transfer (Quayshon Alexander types). You just have to hope that you don't have position groups that bust at more than 50% which will create gaps and thin position rooms.
One could argue that a guy like Daishon is in the "depth after 2-deep" category. Gaylord and Raridon haven't played much, but would probably play if certain injuries prevented getting a 5 combo of the better players on the field. Post Spring Ball seems like the time for honest conversations between coaches and players. Some of these guys are being told that the injury equivalent of multiple lightning strikes would have to occur for them to see the field. And some are taking to opportunity to go somewhere where they can play.
Sure, but guys like Neal and Gaylord are gone after this year anyway, so cutting them offers little, they are already counted in the available for 2020. There is already enough open scholarships now for 3 grad transfers and a couple of walk ons. Raridon, if he doesn't play this year, probably graduates next May and is gone too. The point is, regardless of if they could be in the running for 3rd or 4th string, they were good citizens, continued to work and were willing to just be part of the team.
But in all 3 of those cases, and for different reasons, we, as fans, have no problem keeping them on the roster for 4plus years.
The truth is we only want the alleged malcontents off the roster. That is the only real attrition the average fan wants.
I will restate my position on this, just so there is clarity. I believe we need to find ways to cut the "dead weight" from the roster and replace it with players that will cut it. The difference between me and others, is that I want as much dead weight as possible cut, not just the guys we don't like or who are allegedly not working hard. But as I said, since the 4 year scholly in 2014, it is hard to cut guys like Neal and Raridon because they aren't breaking team rules and are going to class. Since you can't cut them for performance, you have to find another reason. Those guys don't offer you any reason, so we focus on the guys that we don't think want to be here. JMHO
We've been struggling to hit the 85 scholarship limit for several years now, even with giving plenty of scholarships to walk ons. Neal and Gaylord were fine being on scholarship, it's not like we were going to replace them with anyone better. By the way, I've heard good things about Gaylord lately. There are plenty of examples of players not doing much in their undergrad years and then emerging as upperclassmen and end up being solid contributors. If you cut all your players when they're sophomores or juniors, they don't have that chance of improving as juniors and seniors and helping the team.
How do you know you couldn't replace them with someone better. Last I checked there are at least 3 guys that are younger than Neal that are ahead of him on the depth chart. The two starting OTs are both younger than Gaylord. Both were passed up by younger players, so based solely on that, I would say the odds are pretty good that those players could be replaced by someone better.
Your point about upperclassmen that end up being solid contributors is lost on me. The point is that you replace them with better players. Which, as I said above, has been done.
Lastly, I said nothing about cutting every player that was a sophomore or junior. However, you can certainly encourage, and should encourage those scholarship players, that haven't contributed by the end of their 3rd year on campus, to find another place to play. Especially those that have been passed up by younger players and walk ons.
I didn't say that we couldn't replace them with someone better. It's likely we wouldn't have when we were already struggling to find enough quality recruits to sign with us to fill up the full 85 roster. It does little good replacing guys like Neal and Gaylord with another low 3 star recruit. Might as well keep them on the roster and hope that they can become contributors and provide solid depth as upperclassmen.
It's not as simple as encouraging the players to leave if they haven't contributed by year 3. If you oversign, then work to get down to the 85, you can wait until their 4th year on campus before casting them out. It gives you another full year to evaluate them and judge if they can help out the team. There are tons of examples of players doing nothing their first 3 years, but then becoming solid contributors their last 2 years. Casting them out after 3 years just because they haven't contributed yet is premature in many cases and can lead to losing a lot of value their last 2 years.
Going by your philosophy of casting every non contributor out by year 3, you're almost guaranteed to have a young team every year. I think you're undervaluing how much 5th year seniors can contribute to the team. There's no comparison between a guy who's had 3 or 4 years of development in the system and a guy fresh out of high school. Most players are way better as seniors than they were as freshman. I'd rather have a more experienced, well developed team than a perpetual young team. I don't think we recruit well enough to have that kind of philosophy and be successful. Replacing one third year 3 star player with another 3 star recruit doesn't do much good in a lot of cases.
I agree with this completely If a kid is dead weight keeping him is keeping a new star from possibly being on the team - This is real world stuff with real money and expectations - NU should not be in the business of giving participation ribbons to kids because they have received those in the past
Can't have our cake and eat it too. Majority sentiment seems to be these kids need to be student athletes with no further compensation than on campus resources and education. If they don't give the staff a reason to balk no one that NU hires is going to do really scuzzy things to a kid just to get rid of them.
Now if folks wanted to go to an employee model and money startd changing hands for reasons other than student...that's a bit different story but people don't want that.
They want the mystique of Rudy and the ruthlessness of Jerry Jones if Rudy doesnt make the play
It also doesn't help that from fan perspective we put most of the ones and hence that blame on the kid. Clearly when the staff walks into a recruits living room and tells him and his mama that life is bigger than football and besides being a football player frost is going to turn you into a man...were selling more than football.
In addition it's made clear to the recruit that they have the potential to be a pretty good football player if they stay eligible put in the worke in the weight room and practice hard.
Now if a kid does that and he still sucks...I've heard a number of coaches say thats not an inddictment of the kid but also the staffs talent evaluation process and development. Why should the kid who is doing what's asked of him but isn't as good as folks thought he was...pay the price for the coach that over judged his value?
Now clearly the kids who do not do what they need to do are not living up to the deal and it's easy for the staff to find ways to encourage them to leave. But thise other kids if they are willing to out up with the grind coaches like frost are not going to turn around and pull a saban on them to paper over his own error in judgment