PSU Thon Four Diamonds Fund

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Here's a story from last year titled:

When it comes to The Four Diamonds Fund, where the money ultimately goes is cloudy

Keep it clean and to the point. I'm sure the kids at ttfp are not responsible for the accounting. My objection is to them collecting in cans at New Jersey intersections.

 

[RUwoz]

I expect this thread to go well. Let me grab some popcorn

 

[vkj91]

Here's a story from last year titled:

When it comes to The Four Diamonds Fund, where the money ultimately goes is cloudy

Keep it clean and to the point. I'm sure the kids at ttfp are not responsible for the accounting. My objection is to them collecting in cans at New Jersey intersections.

Just don't give. I don't.

 

[PSUpaly]

trashing Thon? my goodness.

 

[jay_hq]

This can apply to most funds and charities. So many of them are scams.

I wish there was a board rule to ban threads about what other schools are fundraising.

Its a ridiculous obsession on this board.

 

[RBS05]

You can pick apart financials of many charities. Unless you have a larger organization behind it that is taking on things like salaries and benefits for employees, it's pretty easy to point out excess.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

The other thread were locked for a reason you guys...

geesh. Penn State is not pure evil, claim the hell down. You are allowed to be rivals without demonizing every freaking little thing that the other school does. That only makes you look like an a$$hole not them.

Just saying...

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I just added a link to a story from a Pennsylvania media outlet that suggested the Thon's fundraising both benefits ttfp and is "foggy" in its accounting.

In the other thread, now locked, someone suggested this and was attacked for it. So here is corroborating story. that is all.

 

[mdh2003]

Here's a story from last year titled:

When it comes to The Four Diamonds Fund, where the money ultimately goes is cloudy

Keep it clean and to the point. I'm sure the kids at ttfp are not responsible for the accounting. My objection is to them collecting in cans at New Jersey intersections.

This is one of those recurring issues that was researched thoroughly by some here. As the link shows, while some went directly to the families of sick children (mainly sick PA children), the majority of monies collected went to either overhead or research. So while this is technically a charity and definitely a worthy endeavor, the psu mantra of "For the kids" is kinda specious. I guess "Research for the kids" didn't test well.

Also, I think what doesn't sit well with people HERE is, what little money does go directly to kids, goes to out-of-state families. Again, completely fine and noble endeavor, but disclosure would be nice. Pretty sure there are families of sick kids here in NJ that could use some help too.

Really, the correct thing to do would be: Keep the research the way it is, but for every dollar that goes directly to a PA family, keep a dollar in the home state to help out the kids here. I think this goodwill would go a long way to stop the bitching about the dreaded can invasion, and probably even increase the giving total.

 

[RU4Real]

Just don't give. I don't.

This.

It doesn't appear, at least from the evidence suggested in the article, that anyone is actually getting rich off of Thon. The only thing that strikes me as a little peculiar is that the money is being funneled through University Development, which of course gives Penn St. itself first crack at any funds raised, as well as the ability to decide specifically where it goes.

That, for me, is reason enough to stay away from donating. I'm more inclined to donate to specific causes than to charitable organizations which aggregate & distribute. The historical reputation of all such organizations is questionable with respect to the percentage of donations which ultimately finds its way into the hands of needy recipients.

 

[cjrugger_rivals124232]

Also, I think what doesn't sit well with people HERE is, what little money does go directly to kids, goes to out-of-state families. Again, completely fine and noble endeavor, but disclosure would be nice. Pretty sure there are families of sick kids here in NJ that could use some help too.

Really, the correct thing to do would be: Keep the research the way it is, but for every dollar that goes directly to a PA family, keep a dollar in the home state to help out the kids here. I think this goodwill would go a long way to stop the bitching about the dreaded can invasion, and probably even increase the giving total.

Thankfully, most of the people on this planet don't think this way and are happy to help end a terrible disease regardless of what side of an imaginary line a kid lives on.

And I promise, if we find a cure, we'll even share it with you guys in NJ

 

[Upstream]

This.

It doesn't appear, at least from the evidence suggested in the article, that anyone is actually getting rich off of Thon. The only thing that strikes me as a little peculiar is that the money is being funneled through University Development, which of course gives Penn St. itself first crack at any funds raised, as well as the ability to decide specifically where it goes.

That, for me, is reason enough to stay away from donating. I'm more inclined to donate to specific causes than to charitable organizations which aggregate & distribute. The historical reputation of all such organizations is questionable with respect to the percentage of donations which ultimately finds its way into the hands of needy recipients.

PSU doesn't get "first crack" at any funds raised, they get the only crack at funds raised. The donations are donations to Penn State to fund childhood cancer programs at Penn State Hershey. The money doesn't go anywhere else. Most of the money is used for research funding (both direct and indirect costs). A small portion of the money is used to offset the cost of treatment and expenses for patients at Penn State Hershey.

There is nothing wrong with the use of the money. It is an admirable cause.

The controversy about Thon isn't about what the money is used for. The controversy is about Thon's misleading fundraising material which implies that the majority of money is used to directly aid children with cancer and their families, when in fact that is a very small percent. Thon should correct their fundraising material to indicate that donations are used primarily to support Penn State Hershey research programs for childhood cancer.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

uh - story appears to possibly need to be taken with many grains of salt ... considering that the source is-
the Harrisburg area "PennLive" / The Patriot News / ADVANCE Digital which appears to be virtually identical format as what is seen from "NJ.Com" / Star Ledger / ADVANCE Digital
.... sort of a jump ball - potentially shady elements of charity fund raising & fund use vs potentially shady click-seeking journalism pandering to their local "I hate the state U" population.

Now, as for positioning PSU kids at intersection all over New Jersey shaking cans to collect for the annual fund drive .... not a big fan ...

 

[Scarlet Pride]

This debate again? If you don't like it don't give. The article posted is 1.5 years old - what's your point?

Stop injecting your misplaced hatred for all things PSU (based on a freaking game) toward trying to discredit a very good cause that is trying to save kids lives.

 

[mdh2003]

Thankfully, most of the people on this planet don't think this way and are happy to help end a terrible disease regardless of what side of an imaginary line a kid lives on.

And I promise, if we find a cure, we'll even share it with you guys in NJ

Nice strawman. Quit frothing and re-read. Keep the research and also help local kids. It's not that difficult.

 

[RU4Real]

PSU doesn't get "first crack" at any funds raised, they get the only crack at funds raised. The donations are donations to Penn State to fund childhood cancer programs at Penn State Hershey. The money doesn't go anywhere else. Most of the money is used for research funding (both direct and indirect costs). A small portion of the money is used to offset the cost of treatment and expenses for patients at Penn State Hershey.

There is nothing wrong with the use of the money. It is an admirable cause.

The controversy about Thon isn't about what the money is used for. The controversy is about Thon's misleading fundraising material which implies that the majority of money is used to directly aid children with cancer and their families, when in fact that is a very small percent. Thon should correct their fundraising material to indicate that donations are used primarily to support Penn State Hershey research programs for childhood cancer.

Sorry, now you're losing.

All the money collected by Thon goes to University Development. Where it goes from there is not a matter of the same sort of transparency generally associated with 501-class charities. Because they're classified as a government entity, they have different reporting requirements which are not as specific, or as transparent, as those associated with charitable organizations.

Once again, this is a case of Penn State doing something because they can, rather than because they should. You guys spend an awful lot of time defending questionable practices and decision-making on the basis of no specific laws being broken, while routinely and utterly dismissing the notion of what's the right thing to do.

 

[RUsmrtrthna5thgrdr]

Please delete this thread, nothing good can possibly happen from it. Spinning things like Thon just to rag on PSU is pathetic, straight up pathetic.

I don't give a sh*t what 'technicalities' and "Well, they won't release reports!" and "It's just a scam" Look, great kids pour their hearts and souls into thon and countless kids with cancer and their families have benefited directly from Thon. In fact many of those same kids have beaten their disease as a result of the research done in Hershey...

Here's the thing children (on this board), when it comes to an organization that helps provide assistance and research to children with pediatric cancer and their families, if you are going to twist that into penn state hate and don't have anything nice to say about the students that run the organization, shut the f*ck up or walk out in traffic! I think that's a pretty good determining factor on whether you suck as a human being if you are finding ways to bash a school for their students raising money to fight pediatric cancer

 

[RU4Real]

Please delete this thread, nothing good can possibly happen from it. Spinning things like Thon just to rag on PSU is pathetic, straight up pathetic.

Says they PSU fan posing as a Rutgers fan just so he can troll the board.

You should probably find a bridge. If you're lucky we'll name a building after you.

 

[DHajekRC84]

If I can't check it out on Charity Nav or know it first hand local....

I'm one of those who'd rather give a kid $5 for carrying a bag of groceries to the car for the wife then a buck cause they held out a can...

BUT the kids appear to be doing something good...hell of a lot worse than that these days..

and yeah..I shouldn't even have replied. I am sick of all this PSU stuff...not cause I love the school..cause I am just sick of seeing them on our site..

 

[Scarlet Pride]

Please delete this thread, nothing good can possibly happen from it. Spinning things like Thon just to rag on PSU is pathetic, straight up pathetic.

Amen - from a Rutgers fan.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Please delete this thread, nothing good can possibly happen from it. Spinning things like Thon just to rag on PSU is pathetic, straight up pathetic.

I don't give a sh*t what 'technicalities' and "Well, they won't release reports!" and "It's just a scam" Look, great kids pour their hearts and souls into thon and countless kids with cancer and their families have benefited directly from Thon. In fact many of those same kids have beaten their disease as a result of the research done in Hershey...

Here's the thing children (on this board), when it comes to an organization that helps provide assistance and research to children with pediatric cancer and their families, if you are going to twist that into penn state hate and don't have anything nice to say about the students that run the organization, shut the f*ck up or walk out in traffic! I think that's a pretty good determining factor on whether you suck as a human being if you are finding ways to bash a school for their students raising money to fight pediatric cancer

Its not really spinning. Most of what is posted here is factual. It has nothing to do with spinning, agendas, state lines or fanhood. It has to do with whether people know what they are supporting. Which is absolutely critical. People should understand what they are giving money to before giving.

 

[RU4Real]

Please delete this thread, nothing good can possibly happen from it. Spinning things like Thon just to rag on PSU is pathetic, straight up pathetic.

I don't give a sh*t what 'technicalities' and "Well, they won't release reports!" and "It's just a scam" Look, great kids pour their hearts and souls into thon and countless kids with cancer and their families have benefited directly from Thon. In fact many of those same kids have beaten their disease as a result of the research done in Hershey...

Here's the thing children (on this board), when it comes to an organization that helps provide assistance and research to children with pediatric cancer and their families, if you are going to twist that into penn state hate and don't have anything nice to say about the students that run the organization, shut the f*ck up or walk out in traffic! I think that's a pretty good determining factor on whether you suck as a human being if you are finding ways to bash a school for their students raising money to fight pediatric cancer

Any doubt now that this guy is actually a Penn State fan trolling a Rutgers message board?

He's more than met the required criteria for banning in his short tenure here.

 

[RUsmrtrthna5thgrdr]

Says they PSU fan posing as a Rutgers fan just so he can troll the board.

You should probably find a bridge. If you're lucky we'll name a building after you.

Yup, PSU and RU fan here but RU is my alma mater so they are my favorite, there's a reason I'm still on the board, I'm not a troll, why would I continue to come here to get bashed by you and 2 other people if I wasn't a Rutgers grad? It just doesn't make sense to me why anyone would waste their time doing that. 4real all you do is play the troll card whenever someone disagree's with you, In my year on this board I've seen you do it no short of 10 times your word isn't king, and honestly, you troll new members.

Either way just STFU dude I'm not gonna respond anymore to you unless it is football related so go ahead and write your rebuttle to what I just said and yell and scream some more so you can have the last word, but trust me, your the one making yourself look like a fool by bashing kids for raising money for a great cause

 

[Upstream]

You guys spend an awful lot of time defending questionable practices and decision-making on the basis of no specific laws being broken, while routinely and utterly dismissing the notion of what's the right thing to do.

I'm not one of the guys defending the practice. In fact, I called it misleading and I called for it to be corrected. They should be clear that when you donate to Thon or Four Diamonds, you are not donating to some independent charity. You are making a donation to Penn State.

If they were transparent, instead of misleading, and clearly indicated that you were making a donation to Penn State, I don't think people would have a problem with it. Just like no one really has a problem knowing that when you give to a specific fund at Rutgers, you are really just giving to Rutgers, and you don't expect separate charitable reporting.

 

[PSU_Nut_rivals17625]

Here's a story from last year titled:

My objection is to them collecting in cans at New Jersey intersections.

Should I be upset when people were collecting in PA for hurricane relief efforts in New Jersey?

 

[RUsmrtrthna5thgrdr]

I'm not one of the guys defending the practice. In fact, I called it misleading and I called for it to be corrected. They should be clear that when you donate to Thon or Four Diamonds, you are not donating to some independent charity. You are making a donation to Penn State.

If they were transparent, instead of misleading, and clearly indicated that you were making a donation to Penn State, I don't think people would have a problem with it. Just like no one really has a problem knowing that when you give to a specific fund at Rutgers, you are really just giving to Rutgers, and you don't expect separate charitable reporting.

What isn't transparent about their message? the full name of THON is the Penn State IFC/Panhellenic Dance marathon... Penn State is in the name. The 'canners' say "Support kids with cancer" and "For the Kids" as their message. Nothing about what they are saying is untrue.

This really upsets me that some of our fanbase would stoop this low, I mean really guys? this is about kids with cancer and their families, the little girl that my sister danced for was there supporting her for thon weekend and called it "the best weekend of her life" These college students are making a wonderful impact on the lives of children and their families and yet some on here are absolutely scum of the earth by bashing them, literally scum

 

[RUsmrtrthna5thgrdr]

Its not really spinning. Most of what is posted here is factual. It has nothing to do with spinning, agendas, state lines or fanhood. It has to do with whether people know what they are supporting. Which is absolutely critical. People should understand what they are giving money to before giving.

3 minute video on what they are supporting. You can decide for yourself whether it is worth it

 

[srru86]

"Neither Thon nor The Four Diamonds Fund files a 990 form with the IRS. That form is typically filed annually by charities that have a 501c3 tax-exempt status, and includes detailed information about where the money is coming from, and more importantly, how it’s being spent."
That's a Red Flag

"But because both Thon and The Four Diamonds Fund fall under the umbrella of Penn State University, both are classified as 170c1 organizations. These organizations are classified by the IRS as governmental units that are receiving charitable contributions."
What about all the know nothing Penn State posters that keep telling us PSU is an extra special entity above and beyond the constraints of a mere State U? You can't have it both ways.

 

[MADHAT1]

Should I be upset when people were collecting in PA for hurricane relief efforts in New Jersey?

If it goes to a NJ University and you can't find out exactly where your donation is going, you should have a reason to be upset.
THON defenders can check out Charity Navigator and tell the members of this board how CN rates THON /4 Diamonds as a charity
Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
http://www.charitynavigator.org/

I couldn't find THON /4 Diamonds listed on Charity Navigator.
But I think Penn St has it set up so Charity rating organizations can't evaluate how good or bad THON /4 Diamonds are
because of how Penn ST set up how everything goes through them and no one can really tell how the funds are used.
I could be wrong about that and hope someone can prove that I am.

I found this article about THON and felt it should be part of this conversation
http://college.usatoday.com/2015/02/26/voices-penn-states-dance-marathon-about-more-than-just-money/

 

[Scarlet Pride]

"Neither Thon nor The Four Diamonds Fund files a 990 form with the IRS. That form is typically filed annually by charities that have a 501c3 tax-exempt status, and includes detailed information about where the money is coming from, and more importantly, how it’s being spent."
That's a Red Flag

"But because both Thon and The Four Diamonds Fund fall under the umbrella of Penn State University, both are classified as 170c1 organizations. These organizations are classified by the IRS as governmental units that are receiving charitable contributions."
What about all the know nothing Penn State posters that keep telling us PSU is an extra special entity above and beyond the constraints of a mere State U? You can't have it both ways.

To be fair gifts made to the Rutgers University Foundation are basically passed along to the University and fall into the same governmental accounting practices. So the Rutgers Cancer Center would operate in very much the same way.

So are you saying fundraising operations at Rutgers should raise a red flag?

 

[brookdale-soda]

Raising money for research of Childrens cancer is the same as raising money directly for children with cancer. In fact, some could argue its better. The fact that PSU keeps the research money in-house shouldnt be of concern to football fans on a message board. as long as its used for research, who cares?

I will say this. now that RU has a medical school, if i saw an RU student canning to collect for the same cause and RU research would benefit from that, you know where my money would go.

 

[Upstream]

What isn't transparent about their message? the full name of THON is the Penn State IFC/Panhellenic Dance marathon... Penn State is in the name. The 'canners' say "Support kids with cancer" and "For the Kids" as their message. Nothing about what they are saying is untrue.

You indicate that the 'canners' say "Support kids with cancer" and "For the Kids" as their message. That isn't untrue, but it is misleading.

Only a very small percentage of the money is actually used to support kids with cancer. Most of the money is not directly "for the kids". If the canners said "Support Penn State Hershey research and facilities for childhood cancer", that would be more accurate.

The Thon fundraising material almost exclusively promotes the "support the kids" angle with support research tacked on as an afterthough, if at all.


There are a billion charities out there. Most people can't afford to donate to every one that is worthwhile. So most people pick charities based on whether the charity aligns with the causes they want to support before they make significant donations. If someone wants to make a donation to directly provide support to help pay for treatment and expenses for kids with cancer, it is misleading for a charity to claim that is how they will use the money, when less than 10% actually goes to that cause. And while research is certainly a worthy cause, it is a different cause.

 

[Upstream]

Raising money for research of Childrens cancer is the same as raising money directly for children with cancer.

I don't think you know the meaning of the word "directly"

Raising money for research is an important cause, but it is a different cause than raising money to directly support kids.

 

[RUsSKii]

What isn't transparent about their message? the full name of THON is the Penn State IFC/Panhellenic Dance marathon... Penn State is in the name. The 'canners' say "Support kids with cancer" and "For the Kids" as their message. Nothing about what they are saying is untrue.

This really upsets me that some of our fanbase would stoop this low, I mean really guys? this is about kids with cancer and their families, the little girl that my sister danced for was there supporting her for thon weekend and called it "the best weekend of her life" These college students are making a wonderful impact on the lives of children and their families and yet some on here are absolutely scum of the earth by bashing them, literally scum

You see, here's the thing. You can give out emotional anecdotes, personal experiences, and advice to others about donating all that you like. But a lot of people (including myself) would like to know exactly what we donate our hard-earned money to. Perhaps we also prefer that the funds be donated directly to those suffering from disease and their families, rather than a school's general facilities/research that may disburse only a partial portion of funds to the former. I find this particular cause to be somewhat misleading, and therefore choose others to donate to. It's that simple.

 

[RUsmrtrthna5thgrdr]

Raising money for research of Childrens cancer is the same as raising money directly for children with cancer. In fact, some could argue its better. The fact that PSU keeps the research money in-house shouldnt be of concern to football fans on a message board. as long as its used for research, who cares?

I will say this. now that RU has a medical school, if i saw an RU student canning to collect for the same cause and RU research would benefit from that, you know where my money would go.

But But, Joe knew! so we have to bash them! Don't you understand? RU4Real told me so so it has to be true, or else he's gonna call you and me both trolls for the 1,000th time!

 

[ATIOH]

They should be clear that when you donate to Thon or Four Diamonds, you are not donating to some independent charity. You are making a donation to Penn State.

If they were transparent, instead of misleading, and clearly indicated that you were making a donation to Penn State, I don't think people would have a problem with it.

Does something like this bump PSU up college rankings? Percent of alumni who donate is a factor, right?

Imagine alumni who make Thon donations to support the kids, but specifically avoid donations to PSU because of the harm it's done to kids...

 

[Puzio]

Wow. I can't believe some of you are stooping so low as to attack THON. To all of those who recognize all of the good being done through this, despite any other feelings you may have towards Penn State, I applaud you. To the rest of you trying to make THON out to be a scam... you may want to take a cold, hard look in the mirror.

Research into cures and treatments is "for the kids". I have a hard time understanding how you see this any other way.

 

[RUsmrtrthna5thgrdr]

You see, here's the thing. You can give out emotional anecdotes, personal experiences, and advice to others about donating all that you like. But a lot of people (including myself) would like to know exactly what we donate our hard-earned money to. Perhaps we also prefer that the funds be donated directly to those suffering from disease and their families, rather than a school's general facilities/research that may disburse only a partial portion of funds to the former. I find this particular cause to be somewhat misleading, and therefore choose others to donate to. It's that simple.

Isn't the point of charities about personal experiences and donating to causes that cause emotion? That's always been my understanding of it. So Penn State puts the money into a fund that is used by both the 4 diamonds fund and penn state hershey medical center to support kids with cancer and their families so that they can hopefully live normal lives. That sounds wonderful to me and I hope RU sets up a similar situation with their medical facility, I will gladly donate to both.

This is an unbelievably insensitive topic, I'm honestly shellshocked that some stoop this low, I've never been ashamed of anything in relation to RU, but I can honestly say that I am ashamed to be affiliated and lumped into this group that is bashing Thon... Seriously find a better way to spend your time. Start Yelling about Joe or Sandusky for the 10,000,000th time I really don't care but this needs to end.

John please put this thread to bed, Nothing good can come from it and if recruits really do read these threads, this makes us look horrible

 

[zappaa]

Are you guys really worried about where your buck in a can is going?
My god!

 

[rurichdog]

Yep. This thread is a honey pot.