Props to you for that. If THON was illegal, I wouldn't have a word to say, but it's not. Also, if you don't think for one moment that THON/4D and every other PSU-associated cause didn't stop and audit everything from their procedures to their staff to their books after Sandusky/Second Mile, you're missing a very big point. Tragedies like that force everyone to stop and reevaluate some things.
PSU Thon Four Diamonds Fund
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Props to you for that. If THON was illegal, I wouldn't have a word to say, but it's not. Also, if you don't think for one moment that THON/4D and every other PSU-associated cause didn't stop and audit everything from their procedures to their staff to their books after Sandusky/Second Mile, you're missing a very big point. Tragedies like that force everyone to stop and reevaluate some things.
Maybe I'm missing the point, but pediatric cancer research is helping kids, isn't it?
It seems pretty clear that research into pediatric
My point was that donations to Rutgers Foundation are nothing but a pass through to Rutgers University which is not a 501(c)3. People are really missing the point of what the difference between PSU and a 501(c)3 are - they are both legally accountable for proper use of the money.
My point was that donations to Rutgers Foundation are nothing but a pass through to Rutgers University which is not a 501(c)3. People are really missing the point of what the difference between PSU and a 501(c)3 are - they are both legally accountable for proper use of the money.
Well then maybe we should be talking about Embrace Kids Foundation. They also market helping kids and you will see that in their mission statement below they do not mention research but talk heavily about kids and families.
But recently gave 1.5 million to Rutgers for an endowed chair in oncology which is supporting a faculty position and research.
Does that make you question their honesty, marketing strategies, and integrity?
Mission
Hundreds of families in New Jersey and thousands nationwide are confronted each year with the terrible news that their child has cancer, sickle cell disease or some other serious disorder. Embrace Kids Foundation offers unique programs and services that deliver a comprehensive and compassionate method of delivering care to families when they need it most.
Embrace Kids Foundation exists to lighten the burden and improve the quality of life for children with cancer, sickle cell and other serious disorders in the New Jersey/New York City metropolitan area. Underlying all of our programs is our goal to help maintain as much normalcy as possible in our patients' lives by addressing the spiritual, emotional and financial issues of the kids and their families. We believe that addressing the needs of the patient and families as a whole is a critical part of caring for the child.
Do you have a problem with the RU dance marathon? The funds go to embrace kids. Let look at their financials. About 10% of that money they raise pays the directors salary and not for the kids. About a third ($505,634) pays for salaries and benefit and not "for the kids". Of the $1,581,619 in revenue only 658,789 is given to program "for the kids". So why aren't you guys on a crusade against RU Dance marathon for using the RU4Kids?
Mic drop...
I always find it hilarious when internet posters, in this case Upstream and Good Ol, try and take a moral high ground by climbing up on their soapbox only to find that their own house isn't quite in order.[/QUOTE]
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Again:
Nobody is saying pediatric research is bad.
Accountability and truth in marketing are the issues being raised.
Nobody is saying every charity is perfect or Rutgers is perfect.
And just to be clear, the linked Four Diamonds Impact report is not even remotely close to a real financial disclosure form.
Nobody is saying pediatric research is bad.
Accountability and truth in marketing are the issues being raised.
Nobody is saying every charity is perfect or Rutgers is perfect.
And just to be clear, the linked Four Diamonds Impact report is not even remotely close to a real financial disclosure form.
Wow. Based on your post, I went to the Rutgers Dance Marathon page, which contains a link to Embrace Kids. I could find absolutely nothing that even hinted that any of the money raised would be used to fund endowed chairs at Rutgers. That is also a misappropriation since the funds are raised under the guise of one purpose and used for another purpose.
Additionally, the Rutgers Dance Marathon web page is an absolute mess. Rutgers should be embarrassed. Half the links are dead links. It is a web page for a fundraising organization, and there is almost no information about financials or what the money is for (but to their credit, at least they give a direct link to the Embrace Kids webpage).
I'm also not impressed with the information on the Embrace Kids webpage. Again there is no financial information about how the funds are used. And although Embrace Kids is an independent charity, so it appears on GuideStar, it is too small to have any detailed information on GuideStar. Therefore it is incumbent on the charity to publish that information on their own webpage.
I was surprised to discover that I personally know one of the people listed on the Embrace Kids board of directors (and I think he also posts on this board). I'll have to ask him about it next time we talk.
I went to PSU for undergrad and now I am in grad school at Rutgers and this thread is flat our embarrassing
[/QUOTE]
Disingenuous in the extreme.
First, you don't see Rutgers fans pointing to the Dance marathon and as a way to excuse any number of poor behaviors its students and fans have participated in. And we have seen Penn State fans do this with THON.
And if that fundraising campaign ever elevated itself to the levels of THON then I would hope they would be clear about where the money goes upfront and as the amounts increase to THON levels (which is an amazing accomplishment), I would hope they would diversify the beneficiaries accordingly.
If THON can fundraise in New Jersey, why can't they contribute in some way to New Jersey kids with cancer? Heck.. why not benefit the kids with cancer in Pennsylvania who do not happen to be being treated at Penn State?
Asking questions like that does not lessen the great achievements of the Penn State students who do the hard work. So stop saying they are being attacked.
Disingenuous in the extreme.
First, you don't see Rutgers fans pointing to the Dance marathon and as a way to excuse any number of poor behaviors its students and fans have participated in. And we have seen Penn State fans do this with THON.
And if that fundraising campaign ever elevated itself to the levels of THON then I would hope they would be clear about where the money goes upfront and as the amounts increase to THON levels (which is an amazing accomplishment), I would hope they would diversify the beneficiaries accordingly.
If THON can fundraise in New Jersey, why can't they contribute in some way to New Jersey kids with cancer? Heck.. why not benefit the kids with cancer in Pennsylvania who do not happen to be being treated at Penn State?
Asking questions like that does not lessen the great achievements of the Penn State students who do the hard work. So stop saying they are being attacked.[/QUOTE]
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So as long as the charity is "small enough" (in your mind), transparency isn't all that important. That is a well reasoned argument and makes a lot of sense. Well done there.
Secondly, I have not seen one PSU poster in this thread pointing to THON as an excuse for anything.
Thirdly, THON doesn't contribute to New Jersey kids with cancer because it is a Pennsylvania based charity that supports an organization that treats patients at Hershey Medical Center.
There is nothing stopping Rutgers students from crossing into Pennsylvania to collect for their dance marathon. My guess is that people would happily give even if it wasn't directly impacting the children in their community.
It's ok to want to help kids with cancer...even if they don't live in the same state or zip code as you do.
Now you want to make this ALL about Sandusky?
While I do not recall how the recent mention of THON came up in the closed (is it deleted also?) thread. It was probably a positive mention of what THON has raised this year and wishes that Rutgers could do the same.
ONE person in that thread mentioned that THON benefits PSU exclusively and he was attacked for stating what the Four Diamonds website readily admits. I merely started this thread to show that journalists in Pennsylvania also have commented on this.
THAT is how this whole subject came up. That is the context. It has nothing to do with linking THON and Sandusky.
My mention of Sandusky was to suggest that I have seen Penn State fans who defended the behavior of those protesting against JoePA's forced retirement, the statue coming down and the investigation report and so on... that boorish behavior was somehow excused by Penn State's THON efforts. That was how it was used on this board at that time and that is why people began looking into THON. That was why seeing THON canners at New Jersey intersections became something odd here.. including me.
The Red Cross got in PR trouble for fundraising during disasters but spending the money elsewhere. Why is it attacking THON and PSU and trying to tie it to Sandusky scandal to suggest that once they reach a certain threshold in where they fundraise and how much they receive they are no longer a local charity and should consider how the funds are allocated?
Why is it so wrong for a Rutgers fan to ask the same questions that Pennsylvania journalists have asked? Why do you feel compelled to turn this into some attack on the kids who do the work or an effort to label you all as pedophiles? No one here is doing that except you. Stop projecting.
And if you want to look at a Rutgers-related charity to see how to do it consider the Eric Legrand Walk to Believe example. When it started it was all about helping Eric. Then it added helping Spinal cord research at Rutgers.. but it has recently added the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation.
Thanks for the materials. They speak for themselves. 5% of the money supports sick children, 5 % of the money is paid to their primary care providers at PSU Hershey, and the remainder of the money (less administrative fees) is used to fund cancer research at PSU Hershey.
It doesn't matter what comes first. What matters is where the money goes. If their goal was really to spend all of the money raised on the kids, they would add beds. But they don't. Obviously, as a charitable endeavor, these entities have far exceeded anyone's wildest expectations -- I have no doubt the founders never expected to get as large as it has. But now that it is this large, it seems to me like the school has used the windfall contributions to fund research which benefits all types of things that are unrelated to kids with cancer, as opposed to expanding its ability to treat, and pay for treatment. That was an affirmative choice the people running the charity made. You can see that they are defending this decision in the slant of the brochure you circulated. It has multiple pages dedicated to explaining why research is important to the cause and why it helps. This is them telling donors why they are making the choices they made.
That choice is subject to criticism. I really bristle at people who seem to think that just because there is a charitable initiative, this is somehow not a valid discussion, or makes those questioning the governance bad people. Charities are not beyond reproach. There are bad charities run by terrible people all over the place. This is certainly not one of them. But this is all legitimate discussion. I read a lot about all of the charities I give to.
Who said they did?
When the statue was coming down and so on PSU posters on this board did use THON as a way to balance the negative aspects of the cult behavior with the positive. It happened. That brought extra attention to the canners in New Jersey and is why people bothered looking into THON's use of the money collected and that is why a Rutgers fan in the recently closed thread knew off the top of his head that THON mostly benefits PSU directly. And he was attacked for saying so.
All the posturing and rationalizations doesn't change that. To recap:
THON is good.
The kids who work for it do good work. Amazing really.
The people who allocate the funds the kids raise could do better "For The Kids" beyond PSU's reach.
Now my prediction is that some PSUers will say I am backing down or reversing myself.. which is utter garbage. I eagerly anticipate how they might otherwise spin this one.
Disingenuous in the extreme.
First, you don't see Rutgers fans pointing to the Dance marathon and as a way to excuse any number of poor behaviors its students and fans have participated in. And we have seen Penn State fans do this with THON.
And if that fundraising campaign ever elevated itself to the levels of THON then I would hope they would be clear about where the money goes upfront and as the amounts increase to THON levels (which is an amazing accomplishment), I would hope they would diversify the beneficiaries accordingly.
If THON can fundraise in New Jersey, why can't they contribute in some way to New Jersey kids with cancer? Heck.. why not benefit the kids with cancer in Pennsylvania who do not happen to be being treated at Penn State?
Asking questions like that does not lessen the great achievements of the Penn State students who do the hard work. So stop saying they are being attacked.[/QUOTE]
Why are you so hung up on New Jersey? Is there some rule that money raised in Jersey has to stay in Jersey. We are all American why can't we help all Americans? They collected millions in PA for hurricane Sandy. Should I expect them to use some in PA?
It is unrealistic for kids canning for money to give a complete break down when asking for money. Do you expect the Salvation Army to do that? Or any one else soliciting for donation,
No one uses it as an excuse. They just use it to show that there is good being done at the university. That it not all about football first.
PSU-Nut great point....I think some PSU fans may have tried to show others that PSU is not really all about football and to many students THON is wayyyy more important than the football team and its accomplishments. I knew lots of students are psu that never attended or cared for the football program at all. That doesn't make it right but I think that is what many of you Rutgers fans may be talking about
It's like some of these people expect kids to hand out a pamphlet to someone willing to throw a buck in a can and ask them to read it front to back before making their donation. This whole thread is an abomination and makes the people questioning THON look pathetic. All of the information is out there for people to find for themselves if they care to do so. Somehow saying that THON is a less worthy charity because it directs a large portion of the donations to cancer research is an absolute joke. If people don't like where the funds are going, then they should simply donate to a cause that more aligns with what they want their dollar to go towards. We know that it won't be Rutgers dance marathon since they are in the same boat (only worse).
This is why we can't have nice things.
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I doubt people will say that you're backing down. Maybe they will say that you are finally being rational and a decent human being, but not backing down.
The only person spinning anything in this conversation has been you.
Yet PSU will fight to keep the $60 million fine in PA. Can't you help all Americans? With that being said, if THON wasn't PSU no one here would care. We look petty criticizing THON. The can girls are always hot so I wish there were more. Finally, there wasn't one thread about the Rutgers dance marathon before, during or after. That's sad.
It was actually the Commonwealth of PA that fought to keep the fine money in Pennsylvania, not PSU. Technically, PSU was fighting on NCAA's side. Technically.
The problem is that you're not going to find a cure at Hershey. It's, at best, a third or fourth tier cancer research institute and not remotely in the same galaxy as the NIH designated Comprehensive Cancer Centers in Pittsburgh and Philly. If a Pennsylvanian wants to donate money for cancer research where it truly would be put to work with world class facilities and researchers, that is where their money should be going--not PSU-Hershey.
It's a likewise situation when you cross the border and bring your cans into Ohio. Ohio also has two CCC's (at Ohio State and The Cleveland Clinic) that are far better recipients for cancer research monies than sending the money back across the border to your ****** excuse for a cancer institute. I mean hell, it's only been a decade or so since PSU-Hershey gave up on leeches as a cure.
PSU has always been disingenuous bordering on fraudulent in where those monies are going.
So unless PSU is a top research facility for cancer, PSU is being disingenuous and fraudulent? Good Lord...
Never said THON was unworthy.
Of course research done at PSU is a social good.
However at an institution/football program that once had numerous links and supported Second Mile, an organization that probably did some real good, the history of self dealing and at best failure to detect the diversion of the organization's resources to support hideous criminal acts makes it reasonable for people to ask for a few details, a little specificity, in University supported charities. Not hiding behind legalities.
If you start telling me Second Mile had nothing to do with PSU and Paterno, or Sandusky's crimes were apart from his Second Mile role you are barking mad.
Of course research done at PSU is a social good.
However at an institution/football program that once had numerous links and supported Second Mile, an organization that probably did some real good, the history of self dealing and at best failure to detect the diversion of the organization's resources to support hideous criminal acts makes it reasonable for people to ask for a few details, a little specificity, in University supported charities. Not hiding behind legalities.
If you start telling me Second Mile had nothing to do with PSU and Paterno, or Sandusky's crimes were apart from his Second Mile role you are barking mad.
Look at the first post.. the OP.. where I said don't blame the students for accounting. It took about 2 seconds for PSUers to turn this into an attack on the kids working for THON. They did that rather than talk about the whole point of the OP linked story.. the spending of THON funds.
Why can't we praise the kids for collecting the money and making this into an amazingly big deal AND talk critically about the spending? Why can't both of those concepts co-exits without PSUers attempting to villainize anyone who dares bring it up?
Clearly you did not read the quote that I was responding to, where the poster (who completely lacks reading comprehension, or smarts for that matter) compared anyone expressing any reservation with PSU Thon with those who questioned the occurrence of pedophilia and gross moral/ethical failure of adult administrators at the same university.
Look, nobody is questioning Thons noble cause, or the fundraising efforts of students and fans alike. But my personal preference is to benefit local kids and their families directly. And additionally, my opinion is that their slogan and pitch is a bit misleading in that regard. To qualify, I don't like that some donations to Rutgers 'Thon pay for director & staff salaries either. That does not detract from either program's noble intent and efforts. Nothing more, nothing less.
Because the spending is detailed by both THON and the Four Diamonds Fund. If you don't like how the donations are used, simply take your money somewhere else. You have alleged that PSU/THON/4Ds were not being honest and transparent with how they spend the funds but that has been debunk. Since it has been debunk your only issue is with the decision to use excess funds for research. Sorry but that is PSU's right and it is detailed in the reports. There is nothing hidden about it.
Again, I don't know what to tell you except that you need to send your money somewhere else if you don't like it.
Then, just like with other charities, you need to research where your money is going and pick another organization to give to other than PSU or RU's THON. It's that simple.
No. It's disingenuous and fraudulent because PSU is not up front with where the money is going. People are led to believe that they are donating for the direct care of pediatric cancer patients and making their decision to donate on that. In reality, the overwhelming majority of the money is going to PSU cancer research. If PSU was up front about that, then people could make an informed decision on whether to donate, and many would undoubtedly choose to donate to institutions where cancer research money is going to be put to better use.
Then again PSU seems congenitally incapable about being transparent about anything whether it's Paterno's salary, where THON money goes, how many of your football players major in Parks & Recreation or whether your assistant coach is using the football program as bait to lure young boys.
I've read every post and every linked item. And nothing changes the fact that Four Diamonds does not supply the IRS with a form 990 because they hide behind the "We're a government entity" dodge thereby having to provide much less detail.
Most importantly where does 4 Diamond list its five highest paid employees and their compensation? See part VII.
Yes they are. Read this whole thread and find the links to the annual reports before being an idiot.
And in other instances, they hide behind the "we're NOT a state of PA entity" to ignore FOI requests. Government entity one moment, non-government entity the next depending on the secrecy needs of the moment. The bald-faced hypocrisy is stunning. As I posted above, they are institutionally incapable of being honest and transparent about anything, and I'm sure that institutional culture is in no small part a legacy of JoePed.
Again, anyone donating to THON should be made aware that the overwhelming majority of the money goes to a PSU research fund and NOT to the direct care of pediatric cancer patients. Then--and only then--could they make an informed decision if that is where their money best goes.
By the way, I wonder how PSU-Hershey's latest research into "Bodily Humours" is coming along.
Just when you think this thread can't get any worse... THE BUCKEYE ARRIVES!
So you are just going to ignore the reports on the Four Diamond Fund and THON's websites and just pretend like they don't inform people as to where the money goes? Okay, terrific.
If everything is as clear as you suggest, why was the Rutgers fan attacked in the other thread simply for stating that the money all goes to PSU's hospital and research?
That's all he did and he gets attacked by PSUers for saying it.
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