137.5. Someone is not believing the hype about the new uptempo RU
Princeton
- Thread starter RU72
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That works out to an expected 72-73 points for us, versus 65 for Princeton. Last year we averaged 68.4, so it is some improvement
Much tougher to beat than most Q3 opponents. Foolish scheduling.
Princeton always plays above its ranking.Thank you for showing my work!
Sweet 16 team last year.
It’s a rivalry.
The fact that at least 3,000 people are willing to schlep to Trenton on a Monday night in November is actually an argument in favor of the rivalry.
RUChoppin laid out the plain facts why this game makes no sense for us, dated rivalry or no dated rivalry. It's really not debatable at this point for a program that now has annual NCAA tournament aspirations.
Game is so beyond numbers.
It’s Rutgers v Princeton.
Nobody despite a loss is ever going to criticize Princeton as a bad loss.
It’s good practice for the NCAA tourney to play teams with a different pace and to value the basketball as well as excellent practice against the back door.
Firmly believe our relative success against Georgetown in the Big East was because we played Princeton.
It’s a local game. It’s a long time rival. It’s looks cool on the ESPN and Sports site scrolls.
It’s a good thing for New Jersey and the State.
It’s a way for people to remember RU v Princeton invented Football.
We play them in other sports.
Like it or not still even a little academic snobbery too. It just looks good.
Not strictly about the facts. Wrong way to look at it.
The history is great! Bill Bradley, Brian Taylor, Phil Sellers, Bob Lloyd, Tom Young, Pete Carill, hell Steve Worthy.
If you guys can’t see the value of this game beyond the numbers then I don’t know what to tell you.
The game is not beyond numbers, period. The schedule and the season are about making the NCAA tournament. No one cares about the historical points you cite outside of a few posters on this board. I grew up watching the rivalry and I'm done with it.
Not saying there's no value - just that the risk far outweighs the reward.
A win over Princeton is virtually meaningless to NCAA tournament selection. No one looks at Q3/Q4 wins, only at losses, and our overall NET ranking doesn't improve with a win and can drop significantly with a loss (computers don't care about what fans care about).
On the bubble, it's generally about showing Q1/Q2 wins both in and out of conference, and avoiding Q3/Q4 losses. This game doesn't help on one end, and can potentially hurt on the other - as would any other Q3 game, but Princeton also tends to punch above its ranking which makes it riskier.
The only minor element would be if Princeton wins the Ivy, and we can call it a "win against the field".
Another 10-20 years without this game and it would easily slip into the Lehigh/Lafayette/Columbia territory.... long-ago local rivals that just aren't really in our orbit anymore. We should keep our schedule focused on the NET under 100 or over 250 and avoid that 100-250 zone.
If we were a perennial Top 25 team that was routinely expected to be in the tournament, I'd be fine throwing a game like this in for nostalgia's sake - but we tend to be a bubble team, and this type of game doesn't help bubble teams.
Again any astute basketball fan and giving the benefit of the doubt to the Committee (lol) any win over Princeton is a good win and any loss is not a bad loss. Even the Committee will remember Princeton made it to the Sweet 16 last year. Princeton has a name whether the numbers like it or not.
Princeton is not Lehigh/Lafayette/Columbia territory.
And obviously last year the numbers were way off.
Eddie didn’t want to play them but Eddie sadly lost to everybody.
We are in the B1G. Shouldn’t be afraid to play Princeton and good practice for Wiscy and MSU.
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You're just going to keep beating this dead horse like the MSG argument. Read RUChoppin's posts. And I'm an astute basketball fan, btw, just not hung up on stale nostalgia.
I believe similar to Caleb, he went undrafted, played for the Pistons summer league team, was signed and waived in order to be placed on the G-League team.
I remember being told by a certain someone on this board that he was a 1st rounder and surefire NBA player. I like said poster, but the Ivy bias is real
When they look at bad losses on tourney resumes they group Q3 and Q4 losses together. Princeton, who’s very good btw, still will go as a Q3 loss.
Love the game. Love on-campus games. RAC I'm there. Jadwin I'm there. Love it less off-campus but legit prime venues like MSG/PRU I'm there. A dump in nowheresville Trenton...hard pass.
I would say around the time they stopped playing us in football. Late 70’s maybe?
I think that’s the argument against. Nobody wants to play in Trenton and if that’s what a new RAC would be… no thank you.
How’d that MSU game work out? Where’s the make up game at the Garden and an RU home game this year? Neutral site right? Got us in the tourney!
Where’s the MSU game this year? Yep you guessed it, MSU away. Hmmmm. That seems fair right? The gift that keeps on giving.
Sometimes the dead horse needs to be beaten to a pulp so it’s head doesn’t end up in RU’s bed.
Stale nostalgia? How bout playing a Sweet 16 team from last year? Facts hurt.
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Exactly and despite the “expert opinions” on this board, the Committee if truly doing their homework would look at a loss to Princeton more favorably than a loss to Hartford. It’s not strictly numbers. And if a win a nice addition to our resume.
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Key words, “last year”.
Whether it is a Quad 2 or 3 game depends on how well Princeton plays the rest of the year.
I started to reply but there is just too much wrong with your post.
If Princeton is very good, it will not end up as a Q3 victory or loss.
Of course not, Princeton would not want to play there, at least without a return trip to Jadwin. The powers that be came to a compromise to agree to play one game in Trenton. I was always neutral about playing Princeton again, fine if we do and fine if we do not.
All of which has nothing to do with Rutgers playing three conference games at MSG, one as the visiting team, when they played Michigan a few years ago.
Princeton has never been considered a Q2 game on a home/neutral court since the NET quadrants have existed.
This is not necessarily due to the quality of those Princeton teams, but is largely due to the quality of their schedule. They don't play many good teams, so it's hard to convince the computers to move them up in the NET.
Princeton almost certainly won't be in the field until after the Ivy tournament has finished, and we've seen from the committee in the last couple of years that tournament results don't really factor into selection decisions.
Little chance of Princeton being a Q2 game. They need to be top 100 for that to happen. They have no other name opponents on this year's nonconference schedule so they need to crush it overall to be top 100.
This opponent doesn't excite me. There's little rivalry juice for me facing a team we haven't played in 10 years. I wonder if anyone on either team has ever been to a RU-Princeton basketball game.
This opponent doesn't excite me. There's little rivalry juice for me facing a team we haven't played in 10 years. I wonder if anyone on either team has ever been to a RU-Princeton basketball game.
Yeah, Rutgers is likely to be the highest NET team on their schedule this year. You never want to be a Q3 team's super bowl.
The facts are hurting your head so much that you don't see them or choose not to see them relative to this game.
Still Stale. They weren’t a perennial sweet 16 team doing that. They were a bit of a Cinderella. The committee won’t care this year what they did last. Bottom line still a Q3 opponent and one that’s very difficult to beat. Foolish scheduling
Princeton has some gravitas.
Always has.
From Bill Bradley to Geoff Petrie to Brian Taylor to Pete Carill to the Georgetown game to UCLA upset to Sweet 16 last year.
They are one of two favorites to win the Ivy this year.
Classifying them as just another Q3 team is simply not reality. Eye test can’t be ignored.
It’s in State, game has a rich history, it’s a rivalry, it NJ, it’s the first football game, prepares of slower paced teams like MSU, Wiscy, NW, practice D and back doors…
Well.. we seem to be saying that we are going to be a running team this year. But if we get stuck in a half-court offense.. I certainly hope we force Princeton to play defense and chase the ball from side to side often.
Princeton will surely be doing that to us.. they know we play an aggressive half-court D that costs a lot of energy to be expended.
I really want to see ball movement when we get turned away from a transition opportunity. If we do that I think it will mean good things for the whole season ahead.
Hopefully, some of these new faces will produce some smiles and we see a W and a happy Pike at endgame.
Princeton will surely be doing that to us.. they know we play an aggressive half-court D that costs a lot of energy to be expended.
I really want to see ball movement when we get turned away from a transition opportunity. If we do that I think it will mean good things for the whole season ahead.
Hopefully, some of these new faces will produce some smiles and we see a W and a happy Pike at endgame.
Nowhere near the athletes of MSU etc. hahaha first football game. You know what else has rich history? Washington crossing the Delaware. No gravitas as far as the modern committee. They use computers now did you know that? The Ivy League is just a low level league (with very dangerous teams). There is no eye test for Q3s. It’s a Q3 or it’s not. Period. And every example you list is from at lease 35-40 years ago except ucla and that’s just viewed as a Cinderella win. It doesn’t make Princeton a National power. There’s two ways to look at this, from an ancient perspective in which case you’re excited and see Princeton as having national luster. Or there’s the 2020s way of “Rutgers should be playing for the NCAAs every year and this game is a grenade”. I’m a RC90 grad who was recruited by Princeton to play football, and in 2023 realize the Princeton game means nothing to me as a RU hoops fan except a potential Q3 loss. It’s a MUST win to kick off the season. That’s rough.
It's veryy likely going to be a Q3 game. They would have to be 100 or better in the NET to make it a Q2 game. Don't see that happening with who they lost.
As a Princeton alum and a long time RU prof, I'm all for this game. Bring back a home and home series. You have two of the nine colonial colleges playing and in-state. Ivy League vs B1G, and a fairly level playing field. The two schools that invented the game of football.
Of course, if we hadn't played them and lost to them last year, we'd have made the NCAAs. Oh, wait a minute. We didn't and we didn't.
Life, including basketball, is about more than making the NCAAs. And this rivalry might account for about 1% of the variance of making it or not. Bring on the rivalry!
(And what rocket scientist put it in Trenton?)
Of course, if we hadn't played them and lost to them last year, we'd have made the NCAAs. Oh, wait a minute. We didn't and we didn't.
Life, including basketball, is about more than making the NCAAs. And this rivalry might account for about 1% of the variance of making it or not. Bring on the rivalry!
(And what rocket scientist put it in Trenton?)