"Player's first" program
- Thread starter RoyKent
- Start date
He knows it . He just won’t admit it because it destroys his argument.
Yep , 2013 was a “bad” season. This year didn’t really fall into the “ bad” category.
LOL , Dude . He WILL NOT acknowledge that, it doesn’t fit his argument.
You could use that as an excuse for a slow start but we were as terrible in March as were in the beginning.
One season full of Covid and and an underperforming class is not what broken means. A pattern would need to be shown. Now if we have another terrible year next year then yes.
No, no, no, you're the old dude… .again. You don't get to play it off like you did nothing wrong here. You tried to call a bunch of people out for saying things they never said and you didn't even bother to take 30 seconds to research the Michigan roster.
You're the one that keeps getting caught lying and flip flopping.
There's a trend since 2016 that you're purposely ignoring and yes, you are back peddling.
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No one gets caught lying on this board as much as you.
Doesn't seem to be bothering 90% of the other programs out there. Heck, one teamis undefeated and they actually had to pause due to covid.
Stop making excuses
Like I said before, you've been warned once by John Blue and you’re still trolling, all I need to do is tag him and you're gone. Keep it up.
Did you two slack jaws even bother to look at Michigan's roster? I'm guessing you didn't. Take a look.
2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Check out the detailed 2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.comwww.sports-reference.com
I count 9 seniors…… .9. When is the last time Cal had even half of that? Add in the 2 juniors and 2 sophomores and that tells me Michigan is nothing like any team Cal has ever had at UK.
5 of their top 7 scorers are seniors.
Livers, Brooks and Smith combine for 10.2 assists per game, all seniors.
The only thing similar is Hunter Dickinson. He is a freshman.
Tell me again how Michigan is anything close to UK under Cal. I'm dying to read your comparisons.
Also, this is some weird arguement, has znyone on this board actually compared Howard to Cal? If so, I haven't seen it.
You both look like fools right now, but honestly, you did before your posts in this thread anyway.
Shew!! Someone needs the burn unit.
I'd like to be a winning first program
2013
-Lost to 25-10 Notre Dame
-Lost to 23-14 Baylor
-Lost to Louisville
-Missed the NCAA tourney
-Lost 4 of their last 5
-Noel injured
-Including loss in 1st round of SEC tourney to 16-17 Vanderbilt had defeated twice before
-Misses NCAA tournament
-Loss to Robert Morris 1st round of NIT
2016
-Lost to 15-17 UCLA
-Lost to 22-13 Ohio State
-Lost to 5 seed Indiana in 2nd round
2018
-Lost to 21-12 UCLA (3rd loss in a row to UCLA)
-Lost 4 in a row
-Including loss to 20-13 Missouri
-Including loss to 22-13 Texas A&M
-Lost to Florida in last game of regular season
-Lost to 9 seed K-State in Sweet Sixteen
2019
-Destroyed by Duke to start the season, 84-118
-Lost to 20-14 Seton Hall
-Green transfers midseason
-Lost to 18-16 Alabama
-Lost to 5 seed Auburn in Sweet Sixteen, who we’d previously destroyed 83-50
2020
-Loses to 9-23 Evansville IN RUPP
-Loses to 16-15 Utah
-Whitney transfers mid season (2nd in 2 years)
-Loses to 18-13 South Carolina
-Loses to 17-14 Tennessee
-Hagans leaves team temporarily
-Hagans flashing money video (has to leave team again)
2021
-Starts 1-6 to start season
-Including losses to 14-8 Richmond AT RUPP
-Including losses to rival 18-10 UNC
-3 Loss streak conference season
-Including loss to 13-14 Auburn
-Losses 3 of last 4
-Including loss to 16-11 Ole Miss
-Including loss to 14-9 Florida
Including loss to 15-14 Miss State in 1st round of conference tournament
-Misses NCAA tournmanent for 2nd time in 9 years
-Worst season in Kentucky History (9-16)
-Losing record at Rupp (5-6)
-Kansas closes gap of programs with most wins
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Both have done nothing but deflect since.
They couldn’t have used a worse example than Michigan. They are the exact opposite of players first.
Consider the source of the original post. The only reason people are actually replying is because we’re all bored.
20-10 aint a good season, either. Winning 67% of your games at UK would be historically bad. You string together 4/5 of those 20-10 seasons at UK, and you deserve to feel whatever heat you get, from whatever quarter.
Michigan coach stated they were a players first program. Are you calling him a liar?
LOL, yeah, I am and Michigan is not a players first program, not at the moment at least. They start that journey next year after their 9 seniors graduate.
I think the point is that being/saying you're a "players first" coach doesn't mean you don't give a **** about the program or winning also. You can prioritize the players over the program's success (which c'mon if we're being honest, being a selfish fan and acting like helping players to achieve their dreams is some awful thing that a coach would do is ridiculous). I completely understand how people get annoyed with the way he talks about it (and he definitely could do better, like he did with Matt Jones the other night), but there's nothing wrong with being "players first".
Being "players first" and wanting to win at the highest level are not mutually exclusive. Obviously we aren't happy with this season and other recent ones but attributing poor team success to a "players first" attitude is ridiculous. We sucked this year. Poor coaching contributed, as well as individual players performing poorly, combined with a lack of chemistry/continuity. But Calipari being "players first" is not why we sucked.
Being "players first" and wanting to win at the highest level are not mutually exclusive. Obviously we aren't happy with this season and other recent ones but attributing poor team success to a "players first" attitude is ridiculous. We sucked this year. Poor coaching contributed, as well as individual players performing poorly, combined with a lack of chemistry/continuity. But Calipari being "players first" is not why we sucked.
This threads is like a battle royal where there dumb asses are getting thrown over the top rope the first 60 seconds .. Bass fan. KL, and KB stang, all getting nuked , and too dumb to not know
. I apologize , they may not be dumb , but they are entirely wrong about Cal and the last 5 years .
. I apologize , they may not be dumb , but they are entirely wrong about Cal and the last 5 years .
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The issue is that Cal believes too much in the notion that he can have great teams every year with extremely inexperienced teams composed of mostly freshmen.
Whether or not he's "players first" or not (i.e. hoow much he cares about his players relative to the program) wouldn't change, whether our teams are all freshmen or all seniors. Clearly with the way he has talked about his relationships with some of the older players (Reid Travis comes to mind), he loves all his players.
The issue is his coaching/recruiting philosophy (which he says he has realized, hopefully it's true), not that he cares most about his players.
Whether or not he's "players first" or not (i.e. hoow much he cares about his players relative to the program) wouldn't change, whether our teams are all freshmen or all seniors. Clearly with the way he has talked about his relationships with some of the older players (Reid Travis comes to mind), he loves all his players.
The issue is his coaching/recruiting philosophy (which he says he has realized, hopefully it's true), not that he cares most about his players.
So Juwan Howard apparently will care more about his players (i.e. "players first"), once the team is inexperienced? Like what? He can't be players-first because he has a team of seniors?
These are two different issues. You're making a point about the one-and-done strategy. Juwan Howard saying he's "players-first" doesn't directly = primarily building teams with inexperienced players that are likely to go to the NBA.
Obviously a part of "players-first" is that if a player has a chance to succeed in the NBA, you will help him do so. But I can still be a "players-first" coach even if my team has 0 NBA prospects. There are sooooo many more aspects to saying you are "players-first"
People using covid as an excuse for this season are as dim as a bat cave.
Also blaming the players, but nary a word about Cal. THink we see a pattern here.
9-16 is reality. Spin in it all you want deejay.
You are a nitwit if you think covid had nothing to do with UK's record. Your hate for Cal is showing thru again.
Didn’t say it wasn’t Cals fault but Covid obviously was a part of it and a single bad season doesn’t call for someone’s head. Reading skills.
Use you reading skills and show me where I called for his head. Covid is a weak arguement. You're still using it because you have nothing else.
Still, you won't say Cal is at fault. Obvious why.
THis was not a bad season. Bad was going to the NIT in 2013. THis passed bad up a long time ago when UK was 1-7.
What has he done that tells you he's players first?
Keep in mind, I don't know a program out there where the coach doesn't care about his players, if there is, name it.
Also, there are different degrees of it. Calipari takes it to the extreme, 99% of the rest of cbb is the other end of the spectrum.
Also, it's easy to say you're a "players first program" when you have a bunch of dudes someone else recruited. Howard took it over, they're winning and feeling good. You can go on air and tell the world you're this players first program and everything is great. Winning cures everything.
But just wait. They'll lose most of the guys off this team and bring in a bunch of freshmen. That changes things.
You can try to be a smart *** and try to act like there is no difference between 2021 Michigan and 2022 Michigan, but there is a huge difference. Lets see what happens next year, shall we?
Again, I see nothing that seperates UofM from the other 348 non one-and-done programs. If there is something different, what is it? How is Michigan different than any other program in the country?
To me, players first means you do right by every kid on your roster, including the walk ons. Cal plays favorites, he doesn't look at guys like Allen, Baker, Juzang, Matthews, Fletcher, Ware, Mulder etc… the way he looks at kids that are sure fire draft picks (and for some reason, Askew). To me, that's an "NBA players first" program.
remember when OP said “stop with the facts and accept all of cals decisions” (sarcastically)?? or when he said **** cal?
Players first = lack of leadership, Control and program direction. Prioritizing individual success instead of winning games, conference or tournaments
Player driven = shared goals and responsibility, ownership to
Accomplish said goals and buy-in to what the team wants to accomplish and everyone sacrifices a little but benefits from The overall team Success.
I want the later the prior doesn’t yield a sustainable winning program or anything I care to watch.
Player driven = shared goals and responsibility, ownership to
Accomplish said goals and buy-in to what the team wants to accomplish and everyone sacrifices a little but benefits from The overall team Success.
I want the later the prior doesn’t yield a sustainable winning program or anything I care to watch.
No, you trashed Cal for years and this year, you trashed him and the players in every game thread. Then you started a thread calling out people that were doing the same things you did.So I criticize Cal and players for in game performance and I am a "hater". Yet you call Cal names, want him fired, bash him left and right for the last 2 months and that's cool, because you are just a true UK fan who only really cares about the program.
Do I have that right? Is that the ok way to go about it?
Also, what names did I call Cal? What names? I've called him out for his NBA players first program, I've called him out for putting the NBA draft in front of UK and I've called him out for his pathetic offense, what names did I call him?
You're a liar and a hypocrite and you tried to call people out when you started this thread, but you made a rookie mistake, you didn't bother to look to see that Michigan's roster has 7 seniors on it.
You're a joke.
Why bother. He has 2-3 other names. Like. A bad nickel, keeps coming back.
I literally just said “ I didn’t say it wasn’t Cals fault” what would that imply to you? Cal is obviously at fault. All I’m saying is there is more than just this narrative that cal is dumb all of a sudden
Idk man, it seems to me like a very large majority of Cal's former players love him. Even players like Wiltjer who have transferred have said nothing but great things. It's super naive to list all of those players that have transferred and chalk it up to "Cal failing them", rather than just a kid wanting to go to a situation that suits him better, whether it be due to playing time, location, whatever.
Obviously there's a huge difference between 2021 and 2022 Michigan in terms of their personnel. I'm just saying if a coach says he is going to be "players first", obviously that means players first regardless of the makeup of the team. It just means players first lol you're trying to make a completely different point.
We're not talking about "NBA players first", and neither was this thread. It means "players first" as in I want my players to succeed and care the most about the individual players (whether it be their basketball careers, lives outside of basketball, literally everything that encompasses that).
YOu're almost there....who recruited and signed this class? Who decided who played? Who played the wrong player at PG ALL YEAR?
Covid? Please. This roster looked like a first year coach put it together.
What is the other narrative for this season? Give us some specifics.