"Player's first" program

[kyjeff1]

I know their numbers as a team, I don't know the roster so I can't speak on it. I just know they are pretty good this year and have a monster class coming in. I cant speak on any information I don't possess

Open the link

2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

Now, you tell me if this roster looks anything like any roster Cal has had at UK. We'll deal with Michigan's 21/22 roster next year once he's actually had the opportunity to try to coach a bunch if freshmen, but for this year, he has 9 seniors, 5 of them are his main guys.

Don't follow guys like @JFCats22 . the guy will trash the hell out of Cal, then, on the same day, attack others for doing the same thing.
If Baller, KL and Bass didn’t exist, I would vote JFCats22 as worst poster on the board.

 

[kyjeff1]

Juwan Howard is who I think Kentucky should look at next. Or at least keep an eye on. He's young. He's a solid coach. He knows the game all the way up to the professional level. Players seem to love him..

Oh yeah, apparently he's doing a great job with his freshmen oriented team this year. They play like a bunch of seniors.

 

[SandyBell'sFaxMachine]

Look at post #24 in this thread

I will, I don't necessarily disagree and I want multi-year players, just bring up angles. I knew he adopted a S16 team so it's not surprising 2 years later he's working with a 1 seed. I was just talking about his recruiting success because he got a commitment from quite a few of the "can't miss" recruits people want us to get to go along from the multi-year players so we have a good mix

 

[kyjeff1]

They were saying the player's first approach works, as in recruiting, not necessarily one and done. Next year we'll see how good Howard is and if Cal can adapt and keep the fire he first came here with

That’s not what they were saying. They were trying to call people out and they screwed it up. Shot their wads about 385 days too early.

 

[SandyBell'sFaxMachine]

Open the link

2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

Now, you tell me if this roster looks anything like any roster Cal has had at UK. We'll deal with Michigan's 21/22 roster next year once he's actually had the opportunity to try to coach a bunch if freshmen, but for this year, he has 9 seniors, 5 of them are his main guys.

Don't follow guys like @JFCats22 . the guy will trash the hell out of Cal, then, on the same day, attack others for doing the same thing.
If Baller, KL and Bass didn’t exist, I would vote JFCats22 as worst poster on the board.

We had a few decently experienced teams but definitely not close to that. I want the experience don't think I mean let's go all one and done. We don't always agree but through the season I've grown to agree with you more. I'm more optimistic than most here but I want changes for sure

 

[SandyBell'sFaxMachine]

That’s not what they were saying. They were trying to call people out and they screwed it up. Shot their wads about 385 days too early.

That's the way I took it, but if that's what they meant then they were wrong

 

[UK till Death]

Bad season? 20-10 is a bad season at UK. This season was a damn disaster. This team would have won more than 9 games if Cal was never on the sideline.

Zero doubt we win more than 9 if Bruiser coached the entire season. It's impossible to understate what a ****** job Cal did, in ALL facets of being the coach, face, and ambassador of this program.

He was an embarrassment. All. Season. Long.

And then the narcissist decides he needs to impart some words of wisdom to Nate Oats. Someone needs to tell him to STFU and go work on himself-- physically, mentally-- he looks rode hard and put away wet.

If I wasn't a witness to it I would never have believed UK would EVER have an abortion of a season like this one in a thousand years... Tubby's worst was never even close to this.

 

[kyjeff1]

We had a few decently experienced teams but definitely not close to that. I want the experience don't think I mean let's go all one and done. We don't always agree but through the season I've grown to agree with you more. I'm more optimistic than most here but I want changes for sure

You give Cal a veteran roster, he will win 30 games every time, especially at UK.
If you give Cal a roster with 9 seniors and a great 7 footer like Michigan has, he’s in the FF.

The problem I have with Cal is, getting to final fours and winning titles, is not his highest priority. Final fours and titles are byproducts of his #1 passion, which is getting kids drafted.

 

[UK till Death]

Open the link

2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

Now, you tell me if this roster looks anything like any roster Cal has had at UK. We'll deal with Michigan's 21/22 roster next year once he's actually had the opportunity to try to coach a bunch if freshmen, but for this year, he has 9 seniors, 5 of them are his main guys.

Don't follow guys like @JFCats22 . the guy will trash the hell out of Cal, then, on the same day, attack others for doing the same thing.
If Baller, KL and Bass didn’t exist, I would vote JFCats22 as worst poster on the board.

Did you see where JFcats was criticizing another poster's mental wellness in another thread??

Physician, heal thyself!!

 

[kb22stang]

You obviously don't know UK history if you don't think a 20-10 year is a bad year. Tubby's last 2 years were similar to that and people were calling for him to be gone. Same with Hall. Only Pitino was still dominating when he left.

lol..let's forget about context. One 20-10 year wouldn't have had people calling to fire Tubby or Hall. And Cal has had more success than either Tubby or Hall.

 

[kb22stang]

Why do you always want to include Cal’s WHOLE tenure here?
Success is often about how things are TRENDING.

Again I’ll say this...
If N Saban in the next 6 years goes .500 against top25 teams, most of his seasons end going to minor bowls, and occasionally he misses bowls completely, stubbornly sticks to what’s always worked for him in the past, and lectures his fans about how he knows so much more than them Bama fans would—justifiably—be critical DESPITE how well he did his first 10 years there.

UK bball should be analogous to Bama football—a “bad season” there isn’t just not winning the NC.

Alabama fans are widely panned as idiots and before Saban how had all those coaching changes worked out? Not very good.

Only a moron uses an argument based on 1 year and before this year Cal had ups and down, but his down's weren't very bad.

Once again, find me someone in a p5 job that has done better than Cal since he's been here. The list is short and we can't hire those guys (K, Roy, Wright, maybe Self).

 

[ArtSmass]

lol..let's forget about context. One 20-10 year wouldn't have had people calling to fire Tubby or Hall. And Cal has had more success than either Tubby or Hall.

Okay...can I please try something different for you:

Would you agree that the last 6 years have been "UNDERACHIEVING" considering the rankings of our recruits and looking at who knocked us out of the tournament and which round we were knocked out of?

 

[ArtSmass]

Alabama fans are widely panned as idiots and before Saban how had all those coaching changes worked out? Not very good.

Only a moron uses an argument based on 1 year and before this year Cal had ups and down, but his down's weren't very bad.

Once again, find me someone in a p5 job that has done better than Cal since he's been here. The list is short and we can't hire those guys (K, Roy, Wright, maybe Self).

What does "before Saban" have anything to do with the hypothetical I proposed?

You're trying to change the parameters of my hypothetical. The use of Bama as a comparison was in its similarity to UKBB in terms of historical success and fans' expectations ("idiots" or not) due to that particular coach's past success/style of play/interactions with fans ("Bennies" comments, denigration of every D. Allen mistake in postgame pressers, etc).

I listed a football coach in an analogous situation to UKMBB that has done MUCH better than Cal did in his first 6 years even and made the point that the successes would STILL be 'not good enough' if the trend-line of his most recent 6 years were similar to what Cal's system has "accomplished" here his last 6.

 

[BourbonBalz]

How long has Howard been at Michigan? What's the breakdown on the roster? How many OAD types and how many transfers? How many veteran playera?

Don’t confuse him with petty details.

 

[BourbonBalz]

LMAO, 20-10 is not historically a bad season at UK. Your disdain for Cal is obviously about more than basketball, since he's proven his ability at 3 different schools over multiple decades.

You obviously can’t read. He didn’t say 20-10 was historically bad. He said it’s bad for Kentucky and he’s right. Remember all of the chatter about 10 loss Tubby? That record is not accepted here. He said this season‘ record was historically bad and he’s 100% correct.

 

[kyjeff1]

Did you see where JFcats was criticizing another poster's mental wellness in another thread??

Physician, heal thyself!!

I guess if I was a flake and was proven to be consistently wrong, I would probably deflect and call others out for crap that isn't true too.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Open the link

2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

Now, you tell me if this roster looks anything like any roster Cal has had at UK. We'll deal with Michigan's 21/22 roster next year once he's actually had the opportunity to try to coach a bunch if freshmen, but for this year, he has 9 seniors, 5 of them are his main guys.

Don't follow guys like @JFCats22 . the guy will trash the hell out of Cal, then, on the same day, attack others for doing the same thing.
If Baller, KL and Bass didn’t exist, I would vote JFCats22 as worst poster on the board.

One thing is for sure. They all suck.

 

[WitnessGreatness]

 

[kyjeff1]

Alabama fans are widely panned as idiots and before Saban how had all those coaching changes worked out? Not very good.

Only a moron uses an argument based on 1 year and before this year Cal had ups and down, but his down's weren't very bad.

Once again, find me someone in a p5 job that has done better than Cal since he's been here. The list is short and we can't hire those guys (K, Roy, Wright, maybe Self).

Here you go again lumping Cal's 12 years together, like there is no difference between his forst 5 years and his last 6. You know there is a huge difference, but you're purposely ignoing it to fit your agenda.

The truth is, the 2009 - 2015 version of Cal and the players he was getting, is never coming back, but if he doesn't change everything he's doing, the results from 2016 through 2021 will be what we see from Cal until he leaves.

Are you good with that? I'm not. 2 elite 8's, second round loss, sweet 16 and a 9 win season. That’s a far cry from his first 9 years don't you agree?

 

[RoyKent]

I guess if I was a flake and was proven to be consistently wrong, I would probably deflect and call others out for crap that isn't true too.

So I criticize Cal and players for in game performance and I am a "hater". Yet you call Cal names, want him fired, bash him left and right for the last 2 months and that's cool, because you are just a true UK fan who only really cares about the program.

Do I have that right? Is that the ok way to go about it?

 

[drbubba]

Please name me a head coach in the modern era, that has been with a power 5 team over 10 years with no bad seasons.

I don't care about other programs. None of my business. I just want UK to be the best version of itself (Crap! Another Cal cliché).

 

[Wildcats1st]

Nope, not talking about UK. Talking about Michigan under Juwan Howard who has been praised over and over again on this board.

Everyone still cool with what he's doing at Michigan, or no since he and Cal have the same "player's first" approach?

https://sports.yahoo.com/juwan-howa...33533.html?ncid=twitter_yahoosport_dw14wrbb51

man you are the biggest contradiction going right now. I find it interesting that Howard has a legit associate head coach first off. His ego is in check. And he is no outsider to Michigan. He’s an alum. Michigan basketball will be first to him no matter what anyone says. That’s his home. uK is not Cals home. He came here 10 years ago and hasn’t had anyone in his staff like martelli. Let’s be real here and quit with the Jekyll Hyde stuff. You called for Cals head long ago and up until this year. Either you love losing big time or you’re just a massive troll.

 

[bnewt]

Please name me a head coach in the modern era, that has been with a power 5 team over 10 years with no bad seasons.

there's a difference between bad & pathetic

 

[RoyKent]

You called for Cals head long ago and up until this year. Either you love losing big time or you’re just a massive troll.

Nope, never, not true at all. Show me one post where I said Cal be fired as you claim and I will Venmo you $1000

 

[cathouse_rivals216755]

I will tell Cal, if he likes his job he had better get his *** off the sofa and get to work....9-16 won't work here...anything 10 L's or more next year and he's toast.. ..with that said I think he puts together a top 5 team..the transfer market is going to be crazy and Kentucky will have plenty to pick from..after the NCAAT it will be crazy

Who's gonna do the picking?

 

[KyFaninNC]

The post explains what it has to do with “anything”. People have come out of the woodwork this year saying Cals approach no longer works yet here is another coach that has success with the same approach. Stupid post.

OH? So Howard is a far better coach than Cal? Is that what you mean?

 

[cathouse_rivals216755]

Y

You give Cal a veteran roster, he will win 30 games every time, especially at UK.
If you give Cal a roster with 9 seniors and a great 7 footer like Michigan has, he’s in the FF.

The problem I have with Cal is, getting to final fours and winning titles, is not his highest priority. Final fours and titles are byproducts of his #1 passion, which is getting kids drafted.

And this just so happens to be the easiest way to collect $9M year and become popular among the cool crowd.

Jet set recruiting and specializing in OAD takes a lot less work than managing a roster, player development, and coaching a real team.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I will, I don't necessarily disagree and I want multi-year players, just bring up angles. I knew he adopted a S16 team so it's not surprising 2 years later he's working with a 1 seed. I was just talking about his recruiting success because he got a commitment from quite a few of the "can't miss" recruits people want us to get to go along from the multi-year players so we have a good mix

Getting them is one thing. Winning with them is quite another. UK is exhibit A of that this year.
When Howard starts losing 6-8 players a year and has 6-8 newcomers a year, and does for that for a few years, we'll see where things sit.

 

[kyjeff1]

Nope, never, not true at all. Show me one post where I said Cal be fired as you claim and I will Venmo you $1000

Why did you skip over all the other posts? Are you hiding? You realized you put your foot in your mouth again, didn't you?

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

lol..let's forget about context. One 20-10 year wouldn't have had people calling to fire Tubby or Hall. And Cal has had more success than either Tubby or Hall.

Look at Tubby's last 2 years and Hall's last year. YOu're wrong.

Cal has exactly one more FF than Hall and is abot 3.5% higher in winning percentage. There is no huge casm between Cal and Hall. Cal is 2.5% winning percentage ahead of Tubby, 3 more FF's. Same amount of titles as both.

 

[JwUKFan11]

Did you two slack jaws even bother to look at Michigan's roster? I'm guessing you didn't. Take a look.

2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2020-21 Michigan Wolverines Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

I count 9 seniors…… .9. When is the last time Cal had even half of that? Add in the 2 juniors and 2 sophomores and that tells me Michigan is nothing like any team Cal has ever had at UK.

5 of their top 7 scorers are seniors.
Livers, Brooks and Smith combine for 10.2 assists per game, all seniors.

The only thing similar is Hunter Dickinson. He is a freshman.

Tell me again how Michigan is anything close to UK under Cal. I'm dying to read your comparisons.

Also, this is some weird arguement, has znyone on this board actually compared Howard to Cal? If so, I haven't seen it.

You both look like fools right now, but honestly, you did before your posts in this thread anyway.

My point was he is players first. Many have said that you can’t have that attitude and still win even though Cal has more than proved you can.

 

[Mike-D]

Bad season? 20-10 is a bad season at UK. This season was a damn disaster. This team would have won more than 9 games if Cal was never on the sideline.

This is a sad truth. Cal was AWFUL this year. AWFUL.

 

[thepip]

Please name me a head coach in the modern era, that has been with a power 5 team over 10 years with no bad seasons.

Can't think of one-no, not one.

 

[kyjeff1]

My point was he is players first. Many have said that you can’t have that attitude and still win even though Cal has more than proved you can.

Howard has done nothing to show he's players first. If what he's done to this point = players first, well, then every coach in the country is players first.

Cal's idea of a players first program, is to do what is best for the kid and he takes it to the extreme. He brings in kids that are already set in the draft, plays favorites to those kids, then finds an avenue for them, and anyone else, to leave. UK gets the back burner in this scenario.

What Cal doesn't understand, is you can have players first, where UK eats too.

Kids like Wall, Bledsoe, Cuz, Knight, Jones, AD, MKG, Randle, Fox, Bam, Monk, Knox, Diallo, Clarke and Boston, don't need Cal's help. That’s not "players first", that's "nba draft picks first". The guys that truly need his help (Allen, Baker, Wiltjer, Juzang, Hagans, SKJ, Matthews, EJ and Fletcher… to name a small few), aren't getting it. They have to sit while Cal gets his elite hs kids drafted.

That’s not "players first".

But getting back to it, don't try to act innocent, you tried to join JFCats22 in a nice call out and you didn't do your homework. Now you're back peddling.

 

[RoyKent]

Why did you skip over all the other posts? Are you hiding? You realized you put your foot in your mouth again, didn't you?

Old, 50+ dudes on a message board are getting blocked. Starting with you. No time for angry old clowns.

 

[JwUKFan11]

Howard has done nothing to show he's players first. If what he's done to this point = players first, well, then every coach in the country is players first.

Cal's idea of a players first program, is to do what is best for the kid and he takes it to the extreme. He brings in kids that are already set in the draft, plays favorites to those kids, then finds an avenue for them, and anyone else, to leave. UK gets the back burner in this scenario.

What Cal doesn't understand, is you can have players first, where UK eats too.

Kids like Wall, Bledsoe, Cuz, Knight, Jones, AD, MKG, Randle, Fox, Bam, Monk, Knox, Diallo, Clarke and Boston, don't need Cal's help. That’s not "players first", that's "nba draft picks first". The guys that truly need his help (Allen, Baker, Wiltjer, Juzang, Hagans, SKJ, Matthews, EJ and Fletcher… to name a small few), aren't getting it. They have to sit while Cal gets his elite hs kids drafted.

That’s not "players first".

But getting back to it, don't try to act innocent, you tried to join JFCats22 in a nice call out and you didn't do your homework. Now you're back peddling.

I’m not back peddling on anything. I’m just not going to respond to you and all your ignorant mob. Since 2010 UK has more tourney wins then any program, but tell me more about how Cals system is broken and doesn’t work.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I’m not back peddling on anything. I’m just not going to respond to you and all your ignorant mob. Since 2010 UK has more tourney wins then any program, but tell me more about how Cals system is broken and doesn’t work.

9-16. That's beyond broken. That's beyond not working. Already had One player leave. One declaring for the draft. Off a 9-16 team.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Nope, not talking about UK. Talking about Michigan under Juwan Howard who has been praised over and over again on this board.

Everyone still cool with what he's doing at Michigan, or no since he and Cal have the same "player's first" approach?

https://sports.yahoo.com/juwan-howa...33533.html?ncid=twitter_yahoosport_dw14wrbb51

I don't answer questions from men who have pictures of women with disproportionately large breasts in their sig.

It generally means you don't take reality seriously, and therefore won't take my answer seriously either.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Everyone has bad seasons but worst in history of the program?

During one of the worst pandemics in history. Got it.

 

[Jamal Mercer]

Why do you always want to include Cal’s WHOLE tenure here?
Success is often about how things are TRENDING.

Again I’ll say this...
If N Saban in the next 6 years goes .500 against top25 teams, most of his seasons end going to minor bowls, and occasionally he misses bowls completely, stubbornly sticks to what’s always worked for him in the past, and lectures his fans about how he knows so much more than them Bama fans would—justifiably—be critical DESPITE how well he did his first 10 years there.

UK bball should be analogous to Bama football—a “bad season” there isn’t just not winning the NC.

The way they hold onto 2010-2015 is so sad. You used the perfect word. TRENDING down.