Perhaps Snow didn't want to be the DC but still wanted to coach with Rhule. Why is having an experienced DC on staff, in a coaching role, a bad thing? I look at him as more of a resource for Butler and not here to be a babysitter.
Phil Snow
- Thread starter leodisflowers
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The implicit assumption in a lot of these comments is that Rhule and staff really don’t know what they are doing. In reality, Snow was already around the program and was likely to be in Lincoln in 2025. Butler really wants to run a defense, Snow’s resume shows him to be a defensive tinkerer, and he has run both 3 and 4 man fronts. He is basically a high level senior analyst who can also coach on the field. Should be a big help to Butler and the rest of the D coaches.
It’s up to Rhule to mange this thing. These guys are pros, so the possibility of success is there.
What good experienced DC could we have lured? Snow IS a good experienced DC. We have TWO DCs basically and Rhule could coordinate the defense. Scheme isn’t going to be the problem. DUDES is what we need to focus on and we don’t have the NIL money of many programs.
Rhule has never been a DC. Never called a defense in his life from what I can tell. Snow wanted to be retired.
The NDSU coach quit and was LB coach at USC, along with associate HC. Now HC at Fresno State. You are telling me there isn't an experienced DC out there willing to be our DC for $1.4 million a year? Entz was a DC for 6+ years and won 2 fcs titles. And took a position coach job. Rhule boxed himself in by wanting the 3-3-5. NU always seems to find coaches who make life difficult.
My problem is once again we have a coach learning as he goes while we all pray he turns out.
THIS.
All the hand wringing on these hires is laughable. Give them an actual chance. Especially Rhule. What has all this turnover in the past 25 years gotten us?
I swear that most of this board just wants to be negative so they can post "I told you so" when a coach doesn't work out.
What a miserable existence that must be.
I'm not looking forward to saying "i told you so" but I will step up to that plate when the time comes!
Somebody corrected me when I said Rhule said he wanted to stay with the 3-3-5. What he actually said was he liked the style of defense we played with multiple fronts. He has repeatedly said that he thought we needed to play more 4 man fronts to pressure the QB. As several coaches on this forum and Jay Moore have pointed out, it really doesn't matter what you call your defense. Just about everybody runs situationally different fronts. I think it's naive to say that a guy who has coached LBs, DL, OL, QBs, and OL and has been a coach for 30 years couldn't call a defense. He absolutely could.
I don't want to be negative. Holgorsen was a home run hire. So unlike NU to pull it off. So I was hoping we would hire an experienced DC and get some major momentum going into next year. Now we have a complete unknown on defense and still have a terrible special teams coach. And Butler might still be coaching 5 positions in addition to his inexperience as a DC? Yeah, hard to be positive.
His exact quote from the presser.
"I think what's important to me is I like the way we play defense. I like this defense. I like these fronts. I like the multiplicity of what we did. We did some different things against Iowa which I thought was great so I don't want to switch to something different. I want to do this defense."
I'm sure he could call a defense. Any coach could. Would he be good? Well he's around 50 and he hasn't done it so I would guess there is a reason.
Rhule talks out his ***. He can say whatever he wants, he didn't bring in Phil Snow to run something different. He wanted this 3-3-5 and it boxed him in. I get it. He wants stability. Which is fine. But it is risky. Butler better start his job by finding a better Gifford or we are completely screwed. No point in having a defense for the hybrid if the hybrid repeatedly burns you.
We did hire an experienced DC. Anybody who doesn't think Snow's fingerprints are going to be all over this defense isn't dealing in reality. Snow will likely be coaching safeties. Maybe Butler coaches CBs or maybe we hire a young DB coach yet.
The fact that none of the assistants remaining have been offered extensions past the expiration of their contracts, which takes place Dec 31 speaks a little bit to me about who may or may not be around for spring ball and for 2025 season. Some of those contracts will jus expire, no need to announce the intention to not renew before it is necessary.
You're really reaching to be unhappy. What makes you think we have to run something different or won't run something different? We've played multiple fronts and schemes this year. EVERY team does. What your base defense is doesn't confine you to that defense.
Ok. Well we might just have the most complicated coaching staff in America. A fake DC while the real DC is half retired and has a different title to keep it secret. And if Snow is the secret safties coach that would be even funnier. Just thinking about this whole scenario makes me chuckle.
Rhule has done enough to make me uncomfortable, no doubt, but just about everyone in here is shooting in the dark and there isn’t anything that can be done at the moment, so, complain away I guess.
Of course we played multiple fronts. So why hire Butler in the first place? His resume doesn't scream Big 10 DC. Butler is the only DC candidate in America that can be multiple? And why not just hire Snow as DC if he is the secret DC anyway?
Benning had a great segment on the situation this morning. Change is hard for some people. I feel better with Snow on board than if we had brought in some hot new name who has to install a new system with new nomenclature. Maybe it's DDS. Diaco Derangement Syndrome.
Benning is full of ****. I don't care what he says. He tries to be as vague as possible so people can't pin him down on being wrong later. Lame for a talk show host.
Answer this: if Snow is the secret DC anyway, why not just hire Snow as the legit DC?
You're just arguing to argue now. The 49ers brought in a former head coach who had been a DC as an assistant DC. Why would they have done that? Rhule looked at the options and the timing of trying to hire a DC while the portal was open and the playoffs still going on. He reached this decision factoring all things. He's obviously comfortable that this was his best option at this point in time given the circumstances we find ourselves in. Butler's resume makes him qualified. He's done this under extremely difficult circumstances at Penn State. Yeah the results were mediocre but the situation was very difficult at best. That program was reeling.
They were very specific on why they think Butler and Snow could be a good combination and why Butler is a legit hire. Their guests made great points on Butler and Snow. Damon does beat around the bush some, but his guests have no reason to hedge and they didn't.
I suspect Butler knows that he answers to Snow. I view this situation little differently than what we had when Carl was the DC. Butler has the title and may call in the plays but Snow is going to be deeply involved.
What would you have preferred? Who is this "great DC" that you are speaking of?
Good God yes. Butler doesn't need a babysitter. Whoever says that is pretty naive. Snow's title will equate to better pay, but if he was here to be the coordinator than he would have that title. My take is that Snow is an assistant head coach and assistant DC.
If I'm Butler, I want Snow in the building. He's coached a lot of defenses and has coached defense in more than one way. Guys like that can make troubleshooting a problem look easy. In all the bitching about Rhule, he has been pretty clear that he's here to make the situation right. And like a lot of coaches, he's working within his network. We should consider ourselves lucky that Rhule and Holgerson share the same agent and developed a friendship. I didn't know much about Phil Snow, but that dude is a very solid veteran coach. Fans should feel lucky that Rhule and he think enough of one another that he's doing a post-retirement gig in Lincoln
I totally agree.
Just try to think of it in a "normal" work environment, no one wants to be watched and feel like they are being judged 24/7.
Hire someone proven and experienced who runs a 3 man front. Could be lower D1. Could be FCS. Could be a former HC. Or a recently fired HC. If that failed find a young, dynamic position coach from a college or pro system that Rhule likes.
It's not that Butler can't succeed. It's about increasing the odds of success. We've seen this half-assed hiring before and it rarely works. He was a DC 11 years ago for one year. What scheme did he even run? Probably not a 3-3-5. Probably not even a 3-4. So we have someone starting out with basically no play calling experience for our scheme.
We have the resources to hire proven coordinators. White and Holgorsen were excellent hires. Not sure why he would deviate from that.
I argued against Butler before he was named DC. I find staying upset to be quite exhausting, so now that he’s the guy I am not going rehash whether he should or should not be the DC. He is, in fact, our DC.
I am going to assume that Snow and Butler can get along and work together well enough. If so, Snow’s presence should be a net positive for the defense and for Butler. If Butler needs some guidance, feedback or ideas, Snow can help him out. A former successful DC in the room has to help as long as they can avoid personality clashes and power trips.
I am going to assume that Snow and Butler can get along and work together well enough. If so, Snow’s presence should be a net positive for the defense and for Butler. If Butler needs some guidance, feedback or ideas, Snow can help him out. A former successful DC in the room has to help as long as they can avoid personality clashes and power trips.
Benning played on the greatest team of all time and started after Phillips had gotten suspended and is sporting 2 Natty rings 94,95. WTF have you ever done? ABLOUTELY NOTHING!!! He's probably forgotten more about football than you'll ever know. Say this **** to his face, I dare ya!
One thing I should mention about Phil Snow is, he was DC for that ASU squad that blanked us 19-0 in 96.
- Arizona State (1995–2000)
Defensive coordinator
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They both agreed to collaborate with each other so I would hope that it works out quite well. I would foresee much more of these coaching arrangements at other schools. There's no limits anymore so it makes sense.
Only you because you’re constantly tryi g to bag your female coworkers. I LOVED to work with older guys I considered mentors. As I aged and had my own business I missed that. I would end up having to call distant colleagues at times for professional advice instead of bouncing things off my boss in our office.