People talking about shooters

[uk78_rivals88018]

After watching Nova destroy Kansas, two things struck me. 1. On offense, they rarely tried to work the ball inside and when they did make several bounce passes to a cutting player to the basket they were almost always turn-overs. Their players were not even the most physical but all could hit shots. Kentucky had many unforced turnovers or bad passes this season trying to make entry to or kick out from post. Diallo was the worse culprit but not alone. Those turnovers frequently led to easy baskets by whomever we played and cost us games. However, the Kentucky teams that were best in the Cal era had a top center like Cousins, Davis, and KAT. So, those teams oriented toward getting the ball to the post made sense. Our past year's team, not so much. I don't see where we will have a top center next season either.

2. Nova is not great defensively except with rebounding the ball. They are very good at that. So again, it seems the make-up of Nova and their total approach is a lot different than ours. Now, it will be easy to come up with holes in my observations because it is simplistic and there are many factors that could be added. My point is these are two primary things nevertheless.

So, having said all of this, would our team be better with guys like Herro, Green, Baker getting to play the majority of minutes together along with the combinations of Vanderbilt (if he is here for the rebounding; PJ, and Gabriel)? Shooters rather than athletes or slashers to the basket?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I think the win was due to balanced scoring. Their top six players average double digits. The blowout was due to everyone being hot and shots going in.

Hard to rely on shooting for a full season, and certainly hard with a single elimination tournament.

 

[Saguaro Cat]

Villanova is 3rd best team in nation in 3 point field goals made. They just won a game, therefore we must copy how they play.

The rest of the top 10.

Savannah St.
The Citadel
Belmont
Marquette
Washington St
William & Mary
North Florida
New Mexico
Davidson

Hmmm. Wow, winners all. Maybe we step back and look at Villanova as an aberration. Not a team to copy. We all know we need better outside shooting, but it's not the only measurement to build a team around.

 

[uk78_rivals88018]

Villanova is 3rd best team in nation in 3 point field goals made. They just won a game, therefore we must copy how they play.

The rest of the top 10.

Savannah St.
The Citadel
Belmont
Marquette
Washington St
William & Mary
North Florida
New Mexico
Davidson

Hmmm. Wow, winners all. Maybe we step back and look at Villanova as an aberration. Not a team to copy. We all know we need better outside shooting, but it's not the only measurement to build a team around.

Of course, except Nova has a pretty decent record overall. But, but, but, unless a super talented center falls out of the sky, what is your suggestion?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

For for season Villanova averaged about 40% from 3, and averaged 29 attempts per game. If they shot their average that’d be 12 made 3s. Last night they were 18 of 40, and 45%.

They just happened to shoot a lot and have a lot go in. I wouldn’t set my entire team strategy around doing that every night.

 

[Xception]

Some fans do this with our own team, blow somebody out with hot shooting and there’s proclamations of an impending title all over the board. Lose big to a hot team and we’re nit bound, it’s always the most recent event used to determine the likelihood of future events. It’s the wrong way to approach things, there is no certain recipe for tournament success. The best strategy is to get the best players you can, develop them the best you can and hope for luck in the tournament.

 

[jc2010]

Everybody was hot from 3 and they passed it around and didn't force shots, nobody's going to beat them on a night like that. We won some games because we were hitting our 3's but we never could hit them consistently.

 

[shutzhund]

Villanova is 3rd best team in nation in 3 point field goals made. They just won a game, therefore we must copy how they play.

The rest of the top 10.

Savannah St.
The Citadel
Belmont
Marquette
Washington St
William & Mary
North Florida
New Mexico
Davidson

Hmmm. Wow, winners all. Maybe we step back and look at Villanova as an aberration. Not a team to copy. We all know we need better outside shooting, but it's not the only measurement to build a team around.

We don't all know that. You can probably name one who doesn't seem to realize that.

 

[akaukswoosh]

For for season Villanova averaged about 40% from 3, and averaged 29 attempts per game. If they shot their average that’d be 12 made 3s. Last night they were 18 of 40, and 45%.

They just happened to shoot a lot and have a lot go in. I wouldn’t set my entire team strategy around doing that every night.

That was a Final Four record. Nova is an excellent shooting team but that was a singular event. Which makes me wonder if they come out flat Monday.

 

[TortElvisII]

Athletes beat shooters. Just ask. Look at title game.

Any player not able to score 20 if needed is a liability. Multiple scorers are required.

 

[Madcat62_rivals113839]

I think the win was due to balanced scoring. Their top six players average double digits. The blowout was due to everyone being hot and shots going in.

Hard to rely on shooting for a full season, and certainly hard with a single elimination tournament.

they shoot a lot of threes but they also go to the rim. if your going to rely on freshmen you have to recruit heavy in the top ten the last three years cal has let rat face own the top ten legal or not just wish some dirt would come out on rat face

 

[keefsopeng]

this 3 year run for nova is like the 06-07 florida teams. It's not all the exact same players who stayed in school and are having a run together but it's a lot of them. Also don't forget Villanova was the #1 overall seed last year and lost in the 2nd round. Getting Spellman eligible this year and Paschall emerged a lot as well. Brunson, Bridges, and Spellman are most likely all gone after this year I'd be surprised if they are this good again next year. They could prove me wrong, but Wright is going to have to find another Brunson and Bridges if he wants to keep this train rolling,

 

[KYFan96_rivals215361]

I think you need a good balance. 2010 we had we had a dominate center but not great outside shooters, but fell short of a FF. 2012 we had a dominate center with Lamb and Miller who were both good shooters. 2015 we had Townes but also had the twins and Booker who were good shooters. I'm not real big on just inside scoring teams. I think you should be dominate on the inside but be able to make teams pay for leaving you open outside. I dont know why Cal doesn't really recruit a lot of shooters.

 

[Wildcats1st]

this 3 year run for nova is like the 06-07 florida teams. It's not all the exact same players who stayed in school and are having a run together but it's a lot of them. Also don't forget Villanova was the #1 overall seed last year and lost in the 2nd round. Getting Spellman eligible this year and Paschall emerged a lot as well. Brunson, Bridges, and Spellman are most likely all gone after this year I'd be surprised if they are this good again next year. They could prove me wrong, but Wright is going to have to find another Brunson and Bridges if he wants to keep this train rolling,

I say they lose bridges and that’s it

They will be preseason number 1 next year after winning another natty tomorrow. Nothing like Florida.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Is it possible to recruit plenty of good shooters and scorers and the 2 or 3 that can't shoot or score very well make sure they are great at either defending, rebounding or blocking shots. Just not enough good shooters/scorers to go around? Why do we skimp on recruiting those type of players?

Intensity another issue for Cal. Seems most years he is coaching players to play hard. A good mixture of these characteristics with a lean on shooters and scorers would seem to be an effective goal in recruiting. Instead of just focusing on most of your players have to be 5 stars. Then having to teach 5 stars to shoot, play hard, how to defend the drive and play as a team.

Trying to make so many players look good so they can go pro. Recruit players to fill roles regardless of their star rating.

 

[Lukasz0brzut]

Villanova is 3rd best team in nation in 3 point field goals made. They just won a game, therefore we must copy how they play.

The rest of the top 10.

Savannah St.
The Citadel
Belmont
Marquette
Washington St
William & Mary
North Florida
New Mexico
Davidson

Hmmm. Wow, winners all. Maybe we step back and look at Villanova as an aberration. Not a team to copy. We all know we need better outside shooting, but it's not the only measurement to build a team around.

This is true but you can’t built it with half your rotational players unable to hit the rim from 20 ft.

 

[Stevo1951]

I noticed they looked to block out when Kansas put up a shot. They didn't just depend on athleticism.

 

[stoneycat_20]

I don't want to copy them, but i do want 2-3 shooters on the floor at all times..need one guy making 75-100 on the year

 

[willievic]

Villanova is 3rd best team in nation in 3 point field goals made. They just won a game, therefore we must copy how they play.

The rest of the top 10.

Savannah St.
The Citadel
Belmont
Marquette
Washington St
William & Mary
North Florida
New Mexico
Davidson

Hmmm. Wow, winners all. Maybe we step back and look at Villanova as an aberration. Not a team to copy. We all know we need better outside shooting, but it's not the only measurement to build a team around.

You don't have to have five players who can shoot the three, but you need at least two, plus a sixth man off the bench. We had NO consistent three point shooter this year. We had a couple of streak shooters. This was probably Cal's worse shooting team in his time at UK.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[jrpross_rivals]

A mixture is required. You definitely need some guys that can hit the 3 but if you live and die by it....well....you’ll probably die by it. In 6 consecutive games against teams fighting or their lives, the chances are pretty good you wont have a good shooting game one of those nights and you’ll get bounced. If you have some quick slashers and a solid big man that can work the paint, it gives you other options if your shooters go flat.

See the 15-16 team. Murray was arguably the best shooter (not named after a young sheep) that Cal has had but that team had no inside presence and no small forward. Murray goes 1-10 from 3, they’re done. The 12 team, on the other hand, was the best balanced team Cal has had; shooters, athletes, defense, and the best big man in the country. Your best chance to win it all is to have more than just one way to win.

 

[EliteBlue]

See the 15-16 team. Murray was arguably the best shooter (not named after a young sheep) that Cal has had but that team had no inside presence and no small forward. Murray goes 1-10 from 3, they’re done. The 12 team, on the other hand, was the best balanced team Cal has had; shooters, athletes, defense, and the best big man in the country. Your best chance to win it all is to have more than just one way to win.

While I do agree with your post in general bc there is more than 1 way to skin a cat, The Murray example isn't quite the same as a team built like Villanova.

You are exactly right that the '16 team lived and died on Murray being on that game. We also had Ulis luckily that year to help w the shooting. But typically, for whatever reason, Cal only plays 1 true shooter on the floor at a time and surrounds him w the best athletes he can get. When the shooter is able to hit his usual average the offense runs as designed but we have been bitten multiple times by that one guy being off (which happens with the best shooters in the world). When that happens you just hope you're able to out athlete the other team and dominate the boards, draw a lot of fouls, and force it inside bc typically the guys we surround our 1 shooter w are average to bad at skills/fundamentals that aren't athleticism based. It works most the time but by the E8 and FF you are usually playing teams good enough to match you athletically and the game comes down to the little things and shooting. Our best teams have had that 1 pure shooter but the surrounding "athletes" shot at a high enough clip to provide balance in case of an off night.

As far as the Villanova comparison, it would be more similar to a team of Ulis, Murray, Booker, Gabriel, Washington/Vanderbilt). If Murray is off the odds are the other 3 shooters are able to carry the team.
All other factors even typically:
0 guys off = W
1 guy off = W
2 guys off = 50/50 game
3 guys off = 20/80 L (L unless one guy goes Jodie Meeks/Malik Monk)
But if you have 4 guys who shoot 40%+-3% playing significant minutes the likelihood of 3 of them having an off night at the same time isn't very high.

Next year will be interesting to see what kind of lineup gets the majority of clock bc it looks like we will have the personnel to play both ways.
Bigger lineups w Richards, Vanderbilt, Washington, KJ, IQ/Green or combinations of IQ, Green, Herro, Baker, Gabriel, KJ, (potentially Hagans) where 3-4 of those guys are on the floor at all times for floor spacing and shooting w high skill levels combined with 1-2 power guys like Vanderbilt/Washington/Richards