Paying players

[Swede39]

I applaud this very entertaining and informative story. I really do. Gives you some insight to college players. However, my original point stands. Ask any regular joe who is sattled with around $30,000 in student debt, if not more, and see which deal they prefer. I know friends that are working 40 hours a week while in college and still are $40,000 in debt(which they also never get to see their families, friends, or have free time because they are having to always work). Also, stipends have gone up a little since you left my friend. MSU gave $5,156 per player in 2015. That was 3 years ago. No telling what it is now. We can agree to disagree on this whole, “good life” matter.

You changed your narrative. Look at what you type earlier. "There’s nothing you can say that tells me they aren’t living an easier life in college and thereafter due to the advantages given to them while playing."

My entire post was addressing your opinion of an athlete living an "easy" life. Sure you get perks but by no means is it easy. Unless you played football in college yourself, I'd still consider you naive.

I work full time now, have a 7 month old, and also am working on my second masters degree. And taking out student loans. This life is ten times easier than the student athlete life.

For other readers - I'm by no means complaining of all the work it took. Some of my best memories came from that experience. Just addressing ignorance to someone that would claim that being a student athlete is any easier than a regular student. Also, I'm not saying that regular students do not have it hard.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Pretty fair and balanced takes.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

You changed your narrative. Look at what you type earlier. "There’s nothing you can say that tells me they aren’t living an easier life in college and thereafter due to the advantages given to them while playing."

My entire post was addressing your opinion of an athlete living an "easy" life. Sure you get perks but by no means is it easy. Unless you played football in college yourself, I'd still consider you naive.

I work full time now, have a 7 month old, and also am working on my second masters degree. And taking out student loans. This life is ten times easier than the student athlete life.

For other readers - I'm by no means complaining of all the work it took. Some of my best memories came from that experience. Just addressing ignorance to someone that would claim that being a student athlete is any easier than a regular student. Also, I'm not saying that regular students do not have it hard.

When he called it the good life, he was definitely stretching that a tad. But it is sort of relative. Football players are sort of the kings of campus, don't deny that aspect. I can imagine you did not have a shortage of female attention. I knew many football players, plenty of bench warmers too. It was a definite badge of honor. I knew a couple guys who played and were always in shape, then when they quit, they got fat. Not a bad thing to be in shape in college. Certainly worked their *** off in the weight room, no question.

It always comes back to getting a cut of that profit. Hard to really know how to handle that aspect of it. So much of the profit that MSU makes now, was due to what the program did years ago. Why do current players deserve a cut of that? Seems to me like Fletcher Cox, Chris Relf and Chad Bumphis deserve something because they built it when it was nothing.

 

[Swede39]

When he called it the good life, he was definitely stretching that a tad. But it is sort of relative. Football players are sort of the kings of campus, don't deny that aspect. I can imagine you did not have a shortage of female attention. I knew many football players, plenty of bench warmers too. It was a definite badge of honor. I knew a couple guys who played and were always in shape, then when they quit, they got fat. Not a bad thing to be in shape in college. Certainly worked their *** off in the weight room, no question.

It always comes back to getting a cut of that profit. Hard to really know how to handle that aspect of it. So much of the profit that MSU makes now, was due to what the program did years ago. Why do current players deserve a cut of that? Seems to me like Fletcher Cox, Chris Relf and Chad Bumphis deserve something because they built it when it was nothing.

Oh no doubt about it that there were perks. Don't misunderstand me on that.

On the profit - Yeah that's where it gets sticky. Who gets what? That I don't know.

 

[regdawg18]

Some athletes had money before college. Doesn't mean no one is struggling.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

Start posting more. I enjoy your insight as a former player.

 

[Swede39]

Start posting more. I enjoy your insight as a former player.

For sure. I appreciate that. Plenty of Don Marlin stories.

 

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

There is no other reason to be for paying the players, except that one is simply being a snowflake liberal. That is just how it is. If you have that POV, that is how I classify you. Just own it.

What a cringeworthy response. Good god

 

[JungRebel]

Because 9 out of 10 or more posters here and in the world of college athletics at large will tell you the NCAA is far from being unbiased or worth a damn at all and is incapable of enforcing rules intended to deter a black market from forming in response to their rules. I am not in favor of a true free market solution but the people on here saying the system isnt broken or doesn't need fixing are wrong. The system obviously doesn't work, hence the millions of dollars in illegal benefits that have been proven to have happened over the years. Who knows how deep the black market goes? It's not like the NCAA has enough power to investigate and really find out.

 

[msudawg1994]

You changed your narrative. Look at what you type earlier. "There’s nothing you can say that tells me they aren’t living an easier life in college and thereafter due to the advantages given to them while playing."

My entire post was addressing your opinion of an athlete living an "easy" life. Sure you get perks but by no means is it easy. Unless you played football in college yourself, I'd still consider you naive.

I work full time now, have a 7 month old, and also am working on my second masters degree. And taking out student loans. This life is ten times easier than the student athlete life.

For other readers - I'm by no means complaining of all the work it took. Some of my best memories came from that experience. Just addressing ignorance to someone that would claim that being a student athlete is any easier than a regular student. Also, I'm not saying that regular students do not have it hard.

My whole point was that college players are being compensated well enough, and that regular students would take the student athletes college life any day. Poster “paindonthurt” explained this very well in his previous explanations. 90% of students after college=$30,000 in debt. CFB players= $0. Point Blank.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

My whole point was that college players are being compensated well enough, and that regular students would take the student athletes college life any day. Poster “paindonthurt” explained this very well in his previous explanations. 90% of students after college=$30,000 in debt. CFB players= $0. Point Blank.

Good way to look at it. Would I trade my college experience with a 2nd string football player who saw the field very little? Probably so.

HOWEVER

I have heard that the world of college athletics 'steers' kids away from meaningful degrees. Very passively, of course.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

Because 9 out of 10 or more posters here and in the world of college athletics at large will tell you the NCAA is far from being unbiased or worth a damn at all and is essentially incompetent at enforcing rules intended to deter a black market from forming in response to their rules. I am not in favor of a true free market solution but the people on here saying the system isnt broken or doesn't need fixing are wrong. The system obviously doesn't work, hence the millions of dollars in illegal benefits that have been proven to have happened over the years. Who knows how deep the black market goes? It's not like the NCAA has enough power to investigate and really find out.

It's understandable that you are pissed at the NCAA currently, but what are they biased towards? And again, why is the system broken? You keep saying it is, but you can't tell me what's wrong with it. Just because there's a black market where a few rich alumni pay the top 5% of players? Is that something I'm supposed to care about and see as some huge moral tragedy?

 

[saltslugs]

These options that you pose are based on the rules of the NCAA

Well you enlighten on options C and D and E?

There's a third option... to get paid to play or skip college and go to the pros. The player's aren't allowed this option, which is different from any other market.

Let me give you a similar example. Imagine you are the best mathematician and your choice are to (A) Receive a full scholarhip and free room and board or (B) Pay for college in full. Obviously A would be better than B, but in this example, you'd have a hundreds of other options that would be better than A or B.

The point is that athletes are treated differently from just about every other profession. Sure, there are occupations that require a degree/license, but these generally involve scenarios where the occupation is responsible for others (e.g. doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.).

Furthermore, explain to me why it is fair that college coaches can earn millions while the players, who are actually risking their health are not allowed to receive free market compensation.

I'm not sure players should get paid, but I think the idea that high-value players are getting their fair share is ludicrous.

 

[JungRebel]

There are several things wrong with it, one is e.g.

It's understandable that you are pissed at the NCAA currently, but what are they biased towards? And again, why is the system broken? You keep saying it is, but you can't tell me what's wrong with it. Just because there's a black market where a few rich alumni pay the top 5% of players? Is that something I'm supposed to care about and see as some huge moral tragedy?

What other students could sell their likeness and thereby lose their scholarship opportunity just because they are 'amatuers' by sole virtue of being in college? What are we protecting by prohibiting student athletes from selling their likeness to EA for a video game? Selling their autographs? Who gives a **** if Nike signs a kid to shoe contract out of high school? Coming out of high school may be the only time in the player's life they are able to capitalize on their abilities and previous achievements. If they dont pan out or get hurt that shoe contract might not be available later on.

 

[Swede39]

Good way to look at it. Would I trade my college experience with a 2nd string football player who saw the field very little? Probably so.

HOWEVER

I have heard that the world of college athletics 'steers' kids away from meaningful degrees. Very passively, of course.

Can confirm that last part. Unless the athlete is on top of it. I finally asked if I could manage my own scheduling of classes.

 

[campshelbydog842003]

If The NCAA would just let college athletes capitalize on their own name this would be a non issue. The players at schools that turn a profit would get paid good money and the players at schools who don’t turn a profit would not get paid outside of their scholarships. The same people that are winning now would continue to win because everyone worth a **** is doing that under the table anyway. If Bullock Toyota wants to pay Fitzgerald 10K to do a Downtown Louisviiiiiillllee ad, why does anyone on here give a ****? This keeps the school out of it so they don’t have to pay the backup volleyball player that is costing the school money the same thing that the quarterback is getting paid....you know, kind of like everything else in America.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

What other students could sell their likeness and thereby lose their scholarship opportunity just because they are 'amatuers' by sole virtue of being in college? What are we protecting by prohibiting student athletes from selling their likeness to EA for a video game? Selling their autographs? Who gives a **** if Nike signs a kid to shoe contract out of high school? Coming out of high school may be the only time in the player's life they are able to capitalize on their abilities and previous achievements. If they dont pan out or get hurt that shoe contract might not be available later on.

#1 - I think they SHOULD be able to sell their likeness. That neither changes college sports or effects scholarships or the 'student-athletes'. I do think it should be kept independent of the school, though, i.e. you can't see the jersey with MState or whatever on it.
#2 - This is again an NFL/NBA problem by not giving a kid another option besides college, once they graduate high school. Baseball has the perfect system. Remember, the college game gives these kids the platform to become popular, and ultimately be drafted and make money. To me, the schools SHOULD be able to make the money. I see no problem with MSU selling a #15 jersey as long as Prescott's name isn't on the back. That is MSU's jersey, they provided the platform. Dak himself, definitely should be able to make money off his name, do commercials, sign deals, whatever.

I do believe you need to leave the agents out of it, at the college level.

 

[johnson86-1]

Not naive at all. It all comes out in the open, If a student athlete wishes to partake in American capitalism it is up to them. They will have to pay taxes on their income, possibly a licensing fee if they sell signed gear with a schools logo, and all that money comes out in the open. The NCAA just has to police if the school is involved other than licensing fees. If a school wishes to break the rules and help setup the student athlete to do that, then they can suffer the consequences. Now will some people setup businesses and sign student athletes to sign things or maybe shoe companies sign some high profile guys. Its possible, but that kind of happens now and again the money comes out in the open.

It's not naive if you are just saying the schools should be able to pay the players, and this is just another way to accomplish that.

I guess it has the benefit of the student not being officially an employee of the school. The downside is it takes away the ability of the school to control how they want to allocate money. If the money flows through the school, they get to dictate how they divide up the money between player/coaches/facilities/marketing/etc., and also the ability to divide up money between the individual players. Not sure that's such a big deal.

To the extent it's a problem, it's just that it will likely allow the players to claim the lion's share of the value created by the school's brand. Basically keeps the same tournament set up now (which generally results in the majority of people over "investing" and the few winners to come out way ahead), but instead of the overinvestment going into facilities and coaching and admin pay it goes to athletes. Not sure one is necessarily more economically destructive than the other.

 

[Go Budaw]

The pension thing is actually a great idea that I haven’t heard yet. On top of adding incentive for guys to stay eligible and stick with football, it could possibly be a way to get around the Title IX if it is set up as an injury risk mitigation compensation. You could make the argument that football players should get a higher stipend based on the wear and tear put on their bodies, and it wouldn’t be based on any revenue generation. I’d also tweak it so that it pays in full to athletes that sustain career ending injuries, regardless of when the injury occurs.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

NO I am saying the schools should NOT be involved in anyway with the student athletes ability to make money on their own. No other student on scholarship, or not, has limits on their private earnings. They don't stop people who are on scholarship to become a computer programmer from creating an App they can sell in the apple store or play store or a Marketing student from earning money using those abilities. The current scholarship structure is fine and all that they should do. The schools have no right to that money and why should they get to control anything about it. The schools will earn more money because the sale of their licensed merchandise could increase. It does not have to be equal. Obviously the stars would earn more if they want to. My god what socialist country are you folks from? Free markets work.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I had to work at the texaco down in the ghetto while I was in school,and 20 years later im still paying back that student loan. They have it pretty good.

Yep. I had nothing against the athletes. My beef was while I was waiting in line for my student loan check to just barely pay my rent for the semester, I had to listen to the grant money kids talk about how they were going to spend their check on new subs or a ginormous bag of weed. I was pissed because I couldn't get grant money even though I only made about nine grand the year before going to school full time at 32 and had to take out loans because I was over 25.

 

[QuadrupleOption]

Good way to look at it. Would I trade my college experience with a 2nd string football player who saw the field very little? Probably so.

HOWEVER

I have heard that the world of college athletics 'steers' kids away from meaningful degrees. Very passively, of course.

I think this is due to the fact that a lot of very gifted athletes have no business being in college, because there's no way they could pass the entrance exams on their own to get in. This is the root of a lot of the debate surrounding the pay/don't pay issue.

Many athletes don't see a college degree and no student loan debt as being meaningful because they don't value education the same way a lot of other people do. There's nothing inherently WRONG with that, but if you're only reason for going to college is to play professional sports then there needs to be a minor league system in place to provide that for all sports. Baseball and the NBA(sort of) have this, but the NFL doesn't.

 

[QuadrupleOption]

NO I am saying the schools should NOT be involved in anyway with the student athletes ability to make money on their own. No other student on scholarship, or not, has limits on their private earnings. They don't stop people who are on scholarship to become a computer programmer from creating an App they can sell in the apple store or play store or a Marketing student from earning money using those abilities. The current scholarship structure is fine and all that they should do. The schools have no right to that money and why should they get to control anything about it. The schools will earn more money because the sale of their licensed merchandise could increase. It does not have to be equal. Obviously the stars would earn more if they want to. My god what socialist country are you folks from? Free markets work.

That's great. So now when you're recruiting a high school football player and you have to go up against the blue bloods they get to tell that player "Hey man, if you come play with us we have about 250K people that will happily pay you $30 for your widget that you want to sell. MSU can't offer that big a fanbase, it'd be stupid to go play for them." Because as we all know, Bama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, A&M, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and about 10 other schools REALLY need that extra boost in recruiting. You may as well shut down college football and just keep those schools going.

 

[Go Budaw]

Not naive at all. It all comes out in the open, If a student athlete wishes to partake in American capitalism it is up to them. They will have to pay taxes on their income, possibly a licensing fee if they sell signed gear with a schools logo, and all that money comes out in the open. The NCAA just has to police if the school is involved other than licensing fees. If a school wishes to break the rules and help setup the student athlete to do that, then they can suffer the consequences. Now will some people setup businesses and sign student athletes to sign things or maybe shoe companies sign some high profile guys. Its possible, but that kind of happens now and again the money comes out in the open.

I’d agree with this as long as there were 3 conditions in place:

1) Harsh penalties for anyone associated with the school (whether it be alumni, boosters, actual admin, coach, or anyone else) that were anywhere to be found in the money trail. Basically make it the same penalties as if a booster handed an SA a briefcase full of cash.

2) Any money received was traceable via tax filings from both the payer and payee. By that, I mean the NCAA can request the tax return filing of any student athlete who received money, they can request the tax return of the entity / corporation that paid them, and the IRS doesn’t ever have to get involved. Additionally, any SA who wishes to make money off their likeness must file separate paperwork with the NCAA beforehand, which legally binds them to provide any information requested under the penalty of a hefty fine directly to the NCAA to regain eligibility.

3) Goods / services rendered are acknowledged by a 3rd party to be fair market value. This means Johnny 3-star recruit who signs with Auburn can’t skate by with “selling” $500 autographs or something like that before he ever even plays in a game. This would again be reviewable by the NCAA based on conditions in the pre-signed agreement above in Condition 2.

Boosters can try to take advantage by bankrolling dummy corporations / LLC’s and using that to funnel money to SA’s anyways, but with the regulations above it is honestly easier just to keep doing it the old fashioned way. And honestly, any legit application of this would happen way after the SA is signed, so no recruiting advantage would be gained.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Oh so those schools aren't already getting almost all the best athletes?

Actually with how much these kids have realized it is better to play at MSU or Memphis or some other school than sit behind a starter at Alabama or Ohio State it would be beneficial for MSU to back player movement without penalty. How much good QB play have we seen the past few years at schools that are not those big schools due to transfers not wanting to stay behind someone for 2 or 3 years.

It still comes down to these kids want to play and there are limits at any school on who can be on the field.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I am fine with harsh punishments. But if this is all above board and the IRS is involved and they are not getting what they are owed, all those other things are now in criminal areas and people could go to jail instead of just being condemned by the NCAA.

 

[paindonthurt_]

I’m not saying this shouldn’t happen, but if it does, college football as we know it is done.

 

[paindonthurt_]

In the context of the post i was replying to those are the only two options. It was regarding a student athlete's life vs a regular student.

For the rest of your post, i'll say what i've said 100 times. Give a good way it will work? If you are going to pay student athlete's marekt value, fine. Pay them all market value. Which means most women sports are done. Finished. Obsolete.

Athletes are treated differently. Most of the time they get advantages other students dont get.

Furthermore, explain to me why it is fair that college coaches can earn millions while the players, who are actually risking their health are not allowed to receive free market compensation.
Fair? Life isn't fair, but again, if you want fair and free market, then you are ok with women sports dying. If we are going with free market, lets go all the way.

I'm not sure players should get paid, but I think the idea that high-value players are getting their fair share is ludicrous.
Its hard to determine what their fair share is, but there are lots of scenarios where they do get there fair share b/c of college. Tons of players go to small schools and make the NFL. You start paying players in college and it gets real hard for small schools to field teams. The fair share is being able to get recognized to play in the nfl.

As far as free market goes, its free market right now. The NCAA was formed with rules. Everyone has a choice to join or not.
There is a potential opportunity for someone to create a league that pays players and allows them to go the NFL without going to college. Hell those leagues probably already exist. Its not the NCAA's fault they aren't competitive are advantageous enough to demand the best players.