I don't see the big deal, I'm sure both fan bases are very happy with who they have at the helm.
Parrish: Programs best positioned next five years
- Thread starter JRowland
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No what I did was point out that the successes and failures of each coach since Cal has been at UK. It wasn't an attempt to downplay what Coach K has done, it was to show that the only thing Coach K has done better than Cal in the last 6 years (since Cal has been at UK) is win titles. Essentially Cal has done most everything else better. You would be insane to downplay what Coach K has accomplished, but you are also insane to believe he has been significantly better over the last 6 years.
If that is your take, then you obviously believe that UCLA is a better historical program than UK. They have more titles, but UK is better in every other statistical category.
As another said correctly, K is given EVERYTHING on a silver platter!!!! He gets ALL the calls, easiest road to the FF, and has a NC that should've been vacated, along with the FF with Maggette, and Cals only been at a blueblood for six years and if you had him at UK for 36 years like K with all the benefits, while putting K at UMass, and Memphis most of his career, with the NCAA out to get him, it wouldn't even be close as to who's the better Coach.
How was that for a run on sentence lol.
How was that for a run on sentence lol.
I see you have a hard time keeping up. Since I am obviously comparing the 2 coaches since Cal arrived at UK, Coach K is only credited for 2 titles in that span. If you want to talk careers, then you are going to have to wait for each to retire, since Cal obviously has more coaching years left than Coach K. He might not coach them, but he has those years left.
Insane to believe Coach K has done better because he has won more titles during that period. Well, I guess I'm insane.
Again, pay attention to what is being said. The quote was significantly better, not just better. I wouldn't argue one way or the other on who is better, but I will take exception to anyone who thinks one is significantly better than the other.
Everyone knows that k is the best in the game, maybe ever.. But when you say that he's a way better coach, and talk cal's recruiting prowess, it sounds like you're feeding into that lazy "great recuiter mediocre coach" bs that rivals spew about the man who has been to 4 of the last 5 f4s. But I think you already knew that.
If you acknowledge that Cal is a top xo guy in the game, then we've got you all wrong. But that was not what your post connoted.
Well, I guess I'm still insane when applying your metrics.
All of this is silly. Both are outstanding coaches, and I know neither fanbase would trade their coach for anyone else.
Wait, I think the majority of us here are in agreement:
K and Cal are two of the very best.
Both have their programs in enviable positions for the next five years.
Reasonable people can say one or the other is better or has been better since Cal's arrival (depending on how much you care about titles/overall wins/post season runs/whatever), but anything along the lines of "significantly better" or "way better" is silly.
Neither fan base would trade coaches.
I've got that basically right, right?
K and Cal are two of the very best.
Both have their programs in enviable positions for the next five years.
Reasonable people can say one or the other is better or has been better since Cal's arrival (depending on how much you care about titles/overall wins/post season runs/whatever), but anything along the lines of "significantly better" or "way better" is silly.
Neither fan base would trade coaches.
I've got that basically right, right?
Success is not just based on titles, winning a title is so hard to do. Not only do you need a great team but also a bit of luck too.
Kind of like how Duke lucked out of having to play Kentucky in the title game...
Mostly. We have a few outliers who are never happy and never will be. Maybe you guys do too.
My contention is that they have the resources to make vast improvements quickly. UK has done it twice in the past 25 years.
I honestly think they should have swallowed their pride and taken a hit for all the crap they pulled. I guess they feel too good about this year's title shot to throw it away. Or maybe they really believe they will beat all of this.
There is a mouthy .5% of our online fans who only post when Cal loses a game (so pretty rarely) or says something controversial, and they try to frame themselves as objective and neutral and just wanting the program to be most successful.
Well, he's had the most successful initial 6 years of any coach in d1 history, and they still whine. In other words, these sorry individuals would take a trade for a lesser coach that they didn't dislike for personal reasons.
And we wish they'd admit they didn't like him for personal reasons.... Instead they piss on us and say it's raining.. That it's about his coaching, as if he's cost us success that another coach may have brought.[roll]
This. I sometimes wonder if these people hyping Duke's future realize that the coach who created everything that people now think of as Duke basketball is nearly 70 years old. He can't keep going at this pace for too much longer, and who knows what that program will be without him.
age discrimination? I don't think it's a stretch to say that in the next five seasons K will likely coach all or most of those seasons.
I certainly agree but do you also agree with me that a large segment of the Kentucky fan base have made it clear that titles are the first priority? Others see that and assume that's the prevailing position when in fact it is not.
Luck is always a factor indeed (Like how UK didn't have to face a great UNC team in the 1998 Final thanks to Utah.)
I think in the following areas, there is no doubt that Rat Face is better.
- Rat Face can piss on a referee from a good 20 feet with amazing accuracy.
- Rat Face can walk on cake to a title better than any other coach in history.
- Rat Face can get away with his players physically accosting other players via pushing, stomping and otherwise physically punishing competitors.
- Rat Face is most assuredly better at losing to a fifteen seed.
Any other achievements he has are a direct consequence of the above.
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True but he's not recruiting and coaching like someone who is experiencing energy and drive issues.
Thanks! I turn 74 tomorrow-hope you make it someday?
Well, 12 years at least 30 wins a year puts you at 360 wins in those 12 years, so I'd say yes, its a HUGE difference.
I'll give K all the credit he deserves. His record speaks for itself. But to say he's a MUCH better coach than Calipari is just trying to incite an argument.
Look at their records at the same point in their careers:
Calipari has been a college head coach for 23 year. He has six Final Fours and a National Championship.
When K had been a college head coach for 23 years, he had six Final Fours and two National Championships. So, at roughly the same point in their careers the difference was a Derrick Rose free throw in 2008, or maybe Pitino failing to guard the inbound pass in 1992. (Yes, I know both men can talk near misses. I'm just making the point that their records over the same number of years are comparable.)
K advocates will point out he coached his first five years at Army.
Cal advocates will note that he built two programs that were far from elite to Final Four status -- UMass and Memphis.
Now, will Calipari match what K has done if he coaches for 40 -- and counting -- years? It will be difficult, but if he's in the Final Four conversation every year, you can't rule it out.
K has had his Lehigh and Mercer loss years just like anybody else. Calipari has reached at least the Elite Eight 11 times in 23 years. K has reached at least the Elite Eight 14 times in 40 years. That's the level at which you usually have a team capable of winning it all if your luck holds.
Bottom line -- it is all about results. K's results have been duly noted. Calipari's results SO FAR are such that no one can be called MUCH better than him. And I'd rather have Calipari as a 56 year old than K as a 68 year old -- for next year and for the rest of their respective careers.
Look at their records at the same point in their careers:
Calipari has been a college head coach for 23 year. He has six Final Fours and a National Championship.
When K had been a college head coach for 23 years, he had six Final Fours and two National Championships. So, at roughly the same point in their careers the difference was a Derrick Rose free throw in 2008, or maybe Pitino failing to guard the inbound pass in 1992. (Yes, I know both men can talk near misses. I'm just making the point that their records over the same number of years are comparable.)
K advocates will point out he coached his first five years at Army.
Cal advocates will note that he built two programs that were far from elite to Final Four status -- UMass and Memphis.
Now, will Calipari match what K has done if he coaches for 40 -- and counting -- years? It will be difficult, but if he's in the Final Four conversation every year, you can't rule it out.
K has had his Lehigh and Mercer loss years just like anybody else. Calipari has reached at least the Elite Eight 11 times in 23 years. K has reached at least the Elite Eight 14 times in 40 years. That's the level at which you usually have a team capable of winning it all if your luck holds.
Bottom line -- it is all about results. K's results have been duly noted. Calipari's results SO FAR are such that no one can be called MUCH better than him. And I'd rather have Calipari as a 56 year old than K as a 68 year old -- for next year and for the rest of their respective careers.
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Gary's really going out on a limb here. I think even I could have composed THIS list.
Exactly, and if you take a year like 2010 where Northern Iowa took out KU and UK was upset by WVU... the National Champion that year completely avoided the best teams and squeaked by a Horizon League team for the Title.
The best team doesn't always win it all and thats why everyone loves March Madness. Its also why you cannot base everything off of Titles.
Well, happy early birthday. Given my family genealogy and propensity to have a good time, I sincerely hope I make it there someday too.
I meant that to read "that's too old for an accomplished multi-multi-millionaire to still be working".
Leaving a legacy as one of, if not the best, college coach of all time is a hell of a thing. But, basketball aside, I always consider it sad when men work themselves into the grave and don't take the time to enjoy the wealth they built with their families. To each their own, though - and for the record, I would hope that Cal retires before 70 as well, and for the same reasons.
Cals system was made around the premise that guys leave early. I do not believe for a second he intends on, for example, a 4 year shooter on the wing. If he did, he would have multiple championships right now. I believe it enough to bet the house.
Posts like this are so strange. You believe so strongly that you have a better recruiting strategy than John Calipari that you would bet your house?
Really?? Where do you live, exactly? In a cave?
Armchair quarterbacking is all good. It's pretty much why we're here. But your head might be a bit too big for your hat.
As long as Mark Emmert is alive and runs the NCAA he will send them some of that water from the fountain of youth and keep the cheaters alive.
This coming first day of October I will be 5 years older than you.
No one knows when, but regardless of the age we are all here only on temporary bases.
Some of us act otherwise, that is why this world is getting more rotten every day.