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Over / Under on Dems caving

7

79eer

Junior
Oct 4, 2008
8,544
394
83
Mark Morgan, who led the U.S. Border Patrol during Barack Obama's presidency, said Saturday that he's in total agreement with President Trump's proposed border wall.
Morgan echoed President Trump's message to America by saying the current situation at the southern border is a "national security and humanitarian crisis."
 
T

tjebarr

Senior
Feb 3, 2007
25,122
917
0
79eer said:
Mark Morgan, who led the U.S. Border Patrol during Barack Obama's presidency, said Saturday that he's in total agreement with President Trump's proposed border wall.
Morgan echoed President Trump's message to America by saying the current situation at the southern border is a "national security and humanitarian crisis."
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why would the Democrats cave.
79eer said:
Mark Morgan, who led the U.S. Border Patrol during Barack Obama's presidency, said Saturday that he's in total agreement with President Trump's proposed border wall.
Morgan echoed President Trump's message to America by saying the current situation at the southern border is a "national security and humanitarian crisis."
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Trump Has Lost Ground In The Shutdown Blame Game | FiveThirtyEight
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-has-lost-ground-in-the-shutdown-blame-game/
 
7

79eer

Junior
Oct 4, 2008
8,544
394
83
So polititians prefer the terms “fencing” or “barrier”,
hence the term “********”
 
K

Keyser76

Freshman
Apr 7, 2010
11,912
58
0
Trump ain't even got a plan, and it would appear that the GOP didn't wanna approve his wall for two years either, damn those pesky moderate Republicans from the educated states, lol. Why cave? dumbass owns it.
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
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BoremanSouth said:
LOL. It does, but the only one taking a **** in this clip is your dear leader when he 100% owns the shutdown. LOL.
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I actually think Trump is enjoying the shutdown and watching Dems whine about it. I know I am.
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
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BoremanSouth said:
Yeah, the owning da libs strategy should pay great dividends down the road. Enjoy your time!
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I am immensely! Amazing how well the country still runs with a little less non essential government. [winking]
 
M

mule_eer

Freshman
May 6, 2002
20,439
59
48
atlkvb said:
I am immensely! Amazing how well the country still runs with a little less non essential government. [winking]
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Who needs pesky air traffic control or security at the airports? Oh, they are working without pay right now. That means they have to show up for work, so they still incur expenses associated with having to work (child care, gas costs) plus living expenses (rent/mortgage, car payments, etc), but they are not getting paid. The same goes for those who are defending our coasts and borders. This is a bad game to be playing, and it impacts people we lean on behind the scenes to keep us safe.
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
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mule_eer said:
Who needs pesky air traffic control or security at the airports? Oh, they are working without pay right now. That means they have to show up for work, so they still incur expenses associated with having to work (child care, gas costs) plus living expenses (rent/mortgage, car payments, etc), but they are not getting paid. The same goes for those who are defending our coasts and borders. This is a bad game to be playing, and it impacts people we lean on behind the scenes to keep us safe.
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There is nothing which says the Government has to be their employer. We can fund those folks through the private sector. TSA, air traffic control...why does the Government have to run that?

UPS, FED-EX, Amazon, and a vareity of private couriers do a fine job delivering our packages...more efficiently and cheaper than the USPS. We can do the same with air traffic controllers and wand wavers at our Airports.
 
M

mule_eer

Freshman
May 6, 2002
20,439
59
48
atlkvb said:
There is nothing which says the Government has to be their employer. We can fund those folks through the private sector. TSA, air traffic control...why does the Government have to run that?

UPS, FED-EX, Amazon, and a vareity of private couriers do a fine job delivering our packages...more efficiently and cheaper than the USPS. We can do the same with air traffic controllers and wand wavers at our Airports.
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Have you sent anything through FedEx or UPS? Cheaper? Really?

TSA was put under Homeland Security to control security checks at the airports. It was private prior to 9/11. You want air traffic control to go to the lowest bidder? Really?
 
E

EERs 3:16

Redshirt
Oct 17, 2001
73,677
25
0
atlkvb said:
There is nothing which says the Government has to be their employer. We can fund those folks through the private sector. TSA, air traffic control...why does the Government have to run that?

UPS, FED-EX, Amazon, and a vareity of private couriers do a fine job delivering our packages...more efficiently and cheaper than the USPS. We can do the same with air traffic controllers and wand wavers at our Airports.
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doesn’t amazon rely on the usps for package delivery
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
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mule_eer said:
Have you sent anything through FedEx or UPS? Cheaper? Really?

TSA was put under Homeland Security to control security checks at the airports. It was private prior to 9/11. You want air traffic control to go to the lowest bidder? Really?
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Yup. How do we build our weapons systems?
 
M

mule_eer

Freshman
May 6, 2002
20,439
59
48
atlkvb said:
Yup. How do we build our weapons systems?
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Manufacturing is related to the USPS, TSA, and air traffic control in what way? If something is manufactured, we give them specs, then we test the stuff for ages before we accept it. Air traffic control is a different animal. It is a real time product. Do you want to be on a plane during the test period for a new set of air traffic controllers?
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
6,139
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mule_eer said:
Have you sent anything through FedEx or UPS? Cheaper? Really?

TSA was put under Homeland Security to control security checks at the airports. It was private prior to 9/11. You want air traffic control to go to the lowest bidder? Really?
Click to expand...

I think private professional security companies might even do a better job than TSA at the airports. I certainly wouldn't mind subcontracting that work out to people who are specifically trained for that type of work.

Regarding air traffic controllers if worst came to worst we could always use the folks in the Air Force who track satellites and our intercontinental ballistic missile forces. We can also use people in the Navy to do that and those folks are already getting paid!

But we have hundreds if not thousands of small private civil airports where air traffic controllers both are trained and know how to monitor air traffic. There's nothing saying that we couldn't train up more of those types of folks to do the work that our government air traffic controllers are doing or simply allow the creation of companies who could take over that service for us and save taxpayers billions.
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
6,139
113
mule_eer said:
Manufacturing is related to the USPS, TSA, and air traffic control in what way? If something is manufactured, we give them specs, then we test the stuff for ages before we accept it. Air traffic control is a different animal. It is a real time product. Do you want to be on a plane during the test period for a new set of air traffic controllers?
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I'm simply saying it's not beyond the purview of only the government to provide these services. There's nothing any government worker is doing that can't be performed equally or more efficiently in the private sector. I'm suggesting most government activities could be done better in the private sector which would be a better deal for taxpayers as well as better service to customers if it's open to competitive bidding.
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,228
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mule_eer said:
Manufacturing is related to the USPS, TSA, and air traffic control in what way? If something is manufactured, we give them specs, then we test the stuff for ages before we accept it. Air traffic control is a different animal. It is a real time product. Do you want to be on a plane during the test period for a new set of air traffic controllers?
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Man, you’re oversimplifying stuff. First of all, you’ve been on airplanes being controlled by trainees. Like many contracts, the employees would flip badges to the following company. It happened with Flight Service when Leidos took over the contract from Lockheed.

Second, the current employees would be given the transitional option of retaining their employment with the private sector company who won the contract or take severance. ATC folks are being trained all the time in the military and have controlled far more congestive airspace than anything commercially, Bagram, Balad, etc. This would provide another path for veterans to seek well paying jobs upon ending their period of service with the military.

You want to keep playing this game?
 
C

countryroads89_rivals

Sophomore
Sep 6, 2013
27,594
120
0
DvlDog4WVU said:
Man, you’re oversimplifying stuff. First of all, you’ve been on airplanes being controlled by trainees. Like many contracts, the employees would flip badges to the following company. It happened with Flight Service when Leidos took over the contract from Lockheed.

Second, the current employees would be given the transitional option of retaining their employment with the private sector company who won the contract or take severance. ATC folks are being trained all the time in the military and have controlled far more congestive airspace than anything commercially, Bagram, Balad, etc. This would provide another path for veterans to seek well paying jobs upon ending their period of service with the military.

You want to keep playing this game?
Click to expand...


LOL at anyone who thinks private sector could perform the same function as the government more economically.

First of all, look at any profession - attorneys, doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. The salary in government is less than private sector. Secondly, private sector is working to maximize profits.
 
E

EERs 3:16

Redshirt
Oct 17, 2001
73,677
25
0
atlkvb said:
I'm simply saying it's not beyond the purview of only the government to provide these services. There's nothing any government worker is doing that can't be performed equally or more efficiently in the private sector. I'm suggesting most government activities could be done better in the private sector which would be a better deal for taxpayers as well as better service to customers if it's open to competitive bidding.
Click to expand...

You really don’t have a clue do you
 
E

EERs 3:16

Redshirt
Oct 17, 2001
73,677
25
0
atlkvb said:
I think private professional security companies might even do a better job than TSA at the airports. I certainly wouldn't mind subcontracting that work out to people who are specifically trained for that type of work.

Regarding air traffic controllers if worst came to worst we could always use the folks in the Air Force who track satellites and our intercontinental ballistic missile forces. We can also use people in the Navy to do that and those folks are already getting paid!

But we have hundreds if not thousands of small private civil airports where air traffic controllers both are trained and know how to monitor air traffic. There's nothing saying that we couldn't train up more of those types of folks to do the work that our government air traffic controllers are doing or simply allow the creation of companies who could take over that service for us and save taxpayers billions.
Click to expand...

Wait..what....?? You do realize that we did the private contractor thingie (for airport screening) and on 9-Sept-2001 we saw the benefits of all of that. Secondly, your proposal for air traffic control is insane. How many air traffic controllers do we have? How many air traffic controllers are there in the AF? How do you account for the shortages in the AF and the differences between the civilian system and the military one? Also, what is your plan for managing and maintaining an integrated system?
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
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countryroads89 said:
LOL at anyone who thinks private sector could perform the same function as the government more economically.

First of all, look at any profession - attorneys, doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. The salary in government is less than private sector. Secondly, private sector is working to maximize profits.
Click to expand...

Read the last statement in this uninformed post. Profits are what motivates service providers to offer better services. Until the USPS faced competition from UPS and FED EX...they were as inefficient as a caravan of Camels.

Where competition exists, better products and services from providers fighting for market share is usually the end result. Where competition is limited or you have the government running everything without the motivation of profits or the desire to capture greater market share, you have Venezuela.
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
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EERs 3:16 said:
Wait..what....?? You do realize that we did the private contractor thingie (for airport screening) and on 9-Sept-2001 we saw the benefits of all of that. Secondly, your proposal for air traffic control is insane. How many air traffic controllers do we have? How many air traffic controllers are there in the AF? How do you account for the shortages in the AF and the differences between the civilian system and the military one? Also, what is your plan for managing and maintaining an integrated system?
Click to expand...

We simply adapt to a new paradigm. Who says all air traffic has to run through massive and inefficient hub and spoke systems? Uber and Lyft have demonstrated how "on demand" public transportation can be both cost effective as well as economical.

So we shift large portions of domestic air travel to our broad based and more efficient civil air traffic system. We grow those airports into regional and sub regional carriers. We open competition for private air service companies to train the workforce they need to operate based on consumer demand. We certify those folks the same way we certify private building inspectors, or auto mechanics, or plumbers, or any type of professionally trained experts we rely on for safety.

What choice do we have? Aren't we 21 Trillion dollars in debt? When do the taxpayers get a break instead of everyone worrying about the lifestyles of non essential government leeches?
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,228
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countryroads89 said:
LOL at anyone who thinks private sector could perform the same function as the government more economically.

First of all, look at any profession - attorneys, doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. The salary in government is less than private sector. Secondly, private sector is working to maximize profits.
Click to expand...
And this is another example of you not only being wrong, but excruciatingly so. Good lord. You literally contradict your argument in the same paragraph.

It’s not just salaries that you have to look at in order to determine an adequate CBA. It’s process, mostly stamping out the inefficiencies of Govt bureaucracy. The cost savings from that alone allow an individual to be paid a more commanding wage. Let alone the additional head counts driving the inefficiency. Then factor in the bloated benefits packages, overheads, etc.

In the highly technical fields like you listed, in most cases, the Govt is who foot the bill for their education and training...more cost.

You maximize profits by paying a higher salary? This is why you’re a joke.
 
E

EERs 3:16

Redshirt
Oct 17, 2001
73,677
25
0
atlkvb said:
Read the last statement in this uninformed post. Profits are what motivates service providers to offer better services. Until the USPS faced competition from UPS and FED EX...they were as inefficient as a caravan of Camels.

Where competition exists, better products and services from providers fighting for market share is usually the end result. Where competition is limited or you have the government running everything without the motivation of profits or the desire to capture greater market share, you have Venezuela.
Click to expand...

Right, like how the cellular providers offer a variety of goods and serves, at vastly different price points, and have driven down the costs of owning and operating a mobile phone...
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,228
3,298
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EERs 3:16 said:
Wait..what....?? You do realize that we did the private contractor thingie (for airport screening) and on 9-Sept-2001 we saw the benefits of all of that. Secondly, your proposal for air traffic control is insane. How many air traffic controllers do we have? How many air traffic controllers are there in the AF? How do you account for the shortages in the AF and the differences between the civilian system and the military one? Also, what is your plan for managing and maintaining an integrated system?
Click to expand...
These aren’t the complex scenarios you’re making them out to be.
 
E

EERs 3:16

Redshirt
Oct 17, 2001
73,677
25
0
atlkvb said:
We simply adapt to a new paradigm. Who says all air traffic has to run through massive and inefficient hub and spoke systems? Uber and Lyft have demonstrated how "on demand" public transportation can be both cost effective as well as economical.

So we shift large portions of domestic air travel to our broad based and more efficient civil air traffic system. We grow those airports into regional and sub regional carriers. We open competition for private air service companies to train the workforce they need to operate based on consumer demand. We certify those folks the same way we certify private building inspectors, or auto mechanics, or plumbers, or any type of professionally trained experts we rely on for safety.

What choice do we have? Aren't we 21 Trillion dollars in debt? When do the taxpayers get a break instead of everyone worrying about the lifestyles of non essential government leeches?
Click to expand...
You do realize that the gov’t is involved with Uber and Lyft too. I mean who regulates the flow of traffic and maintains the roads... Now take that and translate it over to air travel ...oh and btw, who is goign to police the skies?
 
C

countryroads89_rivals

Sophomore
Sep 6, 2013
27,594
120
0
DvlDog4WVU said:
And this is another example of you not only being wrong, but excruciatingly so. Good lord. You literally contradict your argument in the same paragraph.

It’s not just salaries that you have to look at in order to determine an adequate CBA. It’s process, mostly stamping out the inefficiencies of Govt bureaucracy. The cost savings from that alone allow an individual to be paid a more commanding wage. Let alone the additional head counts driving the inefficiency. Then factor in the bloated benefits packages, overheads, etc.

In the highly technical fields like you listed, in most cases, the Govt is who foot the bill for their education and training...more cost.

You maximize profits by paying a higher salary? This is why you’re a joke.
Click to expand...

The government doesn’t pay for the education of doctors, attorneys, engineers, scientists, etc. ********, you’re a moron.
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,228
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EERs 3:16 said:
Right, like how the cellular providers offer a variety of goods and serves, at vastly different price points, and have driven down the costs of owning and operating a mobile phone...
Click to expand...
And that enables them to maintain service, expand services, and enable new technology. That’s that whole profit thing and why it’s there. Where do you think the money comes from to increase coverage areas, open up more bandwidth, develop the next G, etc.?
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,563
6,139
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EERs 3:16 said:
Right, like how the cellular providers offer a variety of goods and serves, at vastly different price points, and have driven down the costs of owning and operating a mobile phone...
Click to expand...

Cellular providers operate in highly regulated and restricted markets. If we allowed true free competition, many would not be around, or others would replace those who are currently offering lousy services.

In my area of Atlanta, I have only two service providers for my internet. Both are lousy, and better companies offering superior products at lower costs aren't even allowed to compete in my particular area. Pisses me off.

I'm for Government doing those things it's Constitutionally mandated to do. The rest of it can be and should be done in the private sector.
 
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