Our "bad luck"

[tatedog]

Headed to bed, one more comment before I sleep this off.

Were it not for two somewhat lucky outcomes, we would have been watching (or not watching) UConn rip Louisville a new one this afternoon. We had some pretty good fortune to even have the chance we had. It would have been amazing to take advantage but we didn't. Let's not pretend like we were destined to win this thing and it was unjustly taken from us. Purdue basketball has more Big 10 titles than anyone else yet they have not won a game in the final four since the tournament expanded to 64 teams. Mike Martin has been to Omaha more times than Warren Buffett and hasn't won it yet. Chill out. We aren't special in our bad luck.

 

[Go Budaw]

Good post. A lot of people are acting like since we were playing a team not named UConn that we “blew it” since we didn’t win....like we were up against some Cinderella 11th seed or something like that. The real truth is that too many of our fans (myself included) bought WAY too much into the narrative of us “running out of gas” after UConn last year to the extent that we expected ND to just roll over. We didn’t run out of gas last year. We played a team that was a horrible matchup for us, had already proven it twice, and had the best player on the court. This year, we played a team that was a little bit better matchup for us, but one that still had more talent than we did overall, and also had the best player on the floor.

I’m going to hit on that last sentence again, regarding the talent statement. The last 2 years, we have been an undisputed 2nd best program in the country. However, we are in no way, shape, or form even Top 5 in the talent department. Maybe not even Top 10. We have one complete player in Vivians, a physical mismatch in McCowan who is still learning to refine her self in terms of touch around the basket, and 5 other players who are all extremely scrappy but woefully deficient in one or more areas. It is MSU at its core....not the most talented team but one that will outwork just about anyone. It was almost enough tonight, but wasn’t quite. Nevertheless, the fact that we have done what we have given our limitations is nothing short of incredible. Even better days are absolutely still ahead as long as Vic is here.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

Good post. A lot of people are acting like since we were playing a team not named UConn that we “blew it” since we didn’t win....like we were up against some Cinderella 11th seed or something like that. The real truth is that too many of our fans (myself included) bought WAY too much into the narrative of us “running out of gas” after UConn last year to the extent that we expected ND to just roll over. We didn’t run out of gas last year. We played a team that was a horrible matchup for us, had already proven it twice, and had the best player on the court. This year, we played a team that was a little bit better matchup for us, but one that still had more talent than we did overall, and also had the best player on the floor.

I’m going to hit on that last sentence again, regarding the talent statement. The last 2 years, we have been an undisputed 2nd best program in the country. However, we are in no way, shape, or form even Top 5 in the talent department. Maybe not even Top 10. We have one complete player in Vivians, a physical mismatch in McCowan who is still learning to refine her self in terms of touch around the basket, and 5 other players who are all extremely scrappy but woefully deficient in one or more areas. It is MSU at its core....not the most talented team but one that will outwork just about anyone. It was almost enough tonight, but wasn’t quite. Nevertheless, the fact that we have done what we have given our limitations is nothing short of incredible. Even better days are absolutely still ahead as long as Vic is here.

Good post. Everybody is looking for someone to blame for their disappointment, but this game came down to the best player on the floor making the last play. If before the game you were allowed to pick one player off of those rosters to take the last shot in a tie game, if you have any objectivity at all, you would pick Ogunbowle.

Throughout the course of a game, players make bad plays, coaches will make bad decisions and refs will make bad calls. But in the end, the big time players shine on the big stage and that’s what happened last night.

It was a great run for MSU and every MSU fan should be proud of this team’s accomplishments.

 

[thatsbaseball]

We had a great player leading a fast break down the floor with 6 seconds left only to be tackled and no foul called. Without that there would have been no Ogunbowle. Where is your "objectivity" ? We had the game stolen from us in the final seconds yet some seem hell bent on trying to rationalize why we should have lost. I don't get it.

 

[Moe Cabelle]

It’s called “getting over it”. In the end, we lost. Hurts, but we have nothing to be ashamed about. Much to be proud of. Girl made a great shot. It’s over. Any discussion, though potentially valid, just prolongs the pain.

 

[Drebin]

We had a great player leading a fast break down the floor with 6 seconds left only to be tackled and no foul called. Without that there would have been no Ogunbowle. Where is your "objectivity" ? We had the game stolen from us in the final seconds yet some seem hell bent on trying to rationalize why we should have lost. I don't get it.

One thing you can count on with our fanbase....every close game we've lost in every sport in our history wasn't our fault...it was those damn referees.

 

[Go Budaw]

We had a great player leading a fast break down the floor with 6 seconds left only to be tackled and no foul called. Without that there would have been no Ogunbowle. Where is your "objectivity" ? We had the game stolen from us in the final seconds yet some seem hell bent on trying to rationalize why we should have lost. I don't get it.

Why would there have been no Ogunbowle? She would have had even more time to get the same shot. Mo wasn’t gonna shoot 3 free throws.

 

[Joe Mayo]

Everybody complaining about the no call and us being robbed still refuses to address the foul we clearly committed at the end of the Louisville game that was a no call that probably would have won it for them. Truth be told if the refs make the right call we're not in this game to begin with.

 

[tcdog70]

One thing you can count on with our fanbase....every close game we've lost in every sport in our history wasn't our fault...it was those damn referees.

Dude, if you don't think the Refs were a huge factor in us losing this game, you need to stop watching basketball. score tied--we steal the ball--going to have a run out for the win--they tackle our player yet somehow they get the ball. that Sir is realty-we got 17ed big time.

 

[anon1787432961]

in the tourney you play for a chance to win it, despite how good you are, and how good the other team is. It's a roll of the dice on the last few plays and we won the roll once, lost once this year in the final seconds.

The way the season played out, there were 4 very good women's teams. Any 4 could have won the title depending how the ball bounced, what the refs did/didn't call.

UConn is the most talented team this year. T improved greatly and got us much further than we would have gone, literally shattered all previous history with rebounds. Ro hit 2 huge 3 pointers that kept us in games. Vivian poured in the points. Blair hit some huge 3's. Morgan made some great shots. When you focus on our team and look at who they are, what they did, it's very easy to be proud of this team.

Title would have been icing on the cake but we had our cake and ate it too.

 

[tcdog70]

Everybody complaining about the no call and us being robbed still refuses to address the foul we clearly committed at the end of the Louisville game that was a no call that probably would have won it for them. Truth be told if the refs make the right call we're not in this game to begin with.

ok--but that has zero to do with the tackle at the end, what happened before this game was history. The play at Louisville was not clearly a foul. Maybe--but if you are going there-Big T gets fouled on half her shots that are not called.She was fouled late yesterday(they hit her arm and the ball went sideways) she got mad and fouled.I wonder why the Refs thought her shot went sideways? Just because she is 6'7" doesn't give the other team the right to mug her on every shot.

 

[Drebin]

Dude, if you don't think the Refs were a huge factor in us losing this game, you need to stop watching basketball. score tied--we steal the ball--going to have a run out for the win--they tackle our player yet somehow they get the ball. that Sir is realty-we got 17ed big time.

The refs are a factor in every game we play. It's not an excuse for the loss. I guess you didn't have anything to say when we fouled the girl from Louisville that the refs didn't call as she was shooting that last second layup, huh? No, you were probably mocking Louisville fans for bitching about the officiating.

One of the golden rules of organized sports is to never put yourself in a position to have a game decided by an official one way or another. If we had taken care of business it wouldn't have mattered. I suggest all the rage at the officials could be better spent on something else.

And your assessment of the last play is a rose-colored assessment. Yes, it was a foul, but she didn't "tackle" Morgan. She was lunging after the ball and made contact. A referee isn't going to make a call there 9 out of 10 times in that situation. Would I have liked to have seen a foul whistled there? Of course. Am I suicidal because it wasn't? No. It's part of the game and not some anti-MSU agenda. Big T makes that layup and we aren't even having this discussion.

 

[patdog]

The refs were a factor. But a bigger factor was that we pretty much disappeared offensively in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we could have expanded the lead more than we did. Both Notre Dame and Louisville did a great job of making us depend almost totally on Tori for offense with T getting rebounds and putbacks. I didn't see the balanced offense I've seen all season at all this weekend, and again, that has a lot to do with Notre Dame and Louisville

 

[Drebin]

Everybody complaining about the no call and us being robbed still refuses to address the foul we clearly committed at the end of the Louisville game that was a no call that probably would have won it for them. Truth be told if the refs make the right call we're not in this game to begin with.

Yes, this is an outstanding point that I also allude to in another post. Selective outrage.

 

[Tigr2ndbase]

Here’s my 2 cents after sleeping on it. Yes, there were questionable calls at the end but we shouldn’t have been in that situation. Are offense went to crap halfway through the 2nd quarter. That’s why I’m so upset. We beat ourselves. We could have easily put that game away but TO after TO and missed free throws killed us. Still don’t know why we didn’t foul her in the inbound. Did we have our tall backup center guarding the inbound play? I think Morgan should have called timeout when she got that turnover. I know it looked like a breakaway layup to VV but she was late getting it to her. Call timeout to make sure we get the last play. Again, if not for the collapse in the 3rd quarter we wouldn’t have been in that situation. Very proud of our girls. I’m worried about the offense for next year but this team and group of seniors is one of the best classes in any sport.

 

[Joe Mayo]

It does have to do with the tackle cause your saying the refs blew a call that should have won it for state and the fact of the matter is if the refs don't blow the call at the end of the Louisville game we're not playing in this game.

And if you don't think that was clearly a foul at the end of Louisville game then there's no point in discussing this with you cause your maroon glasses are on too tight.

Y'all do realize other teams get called for terrible fouls too right? Not every foul somebody commits against us is legit and everyone we committ against another team is BS.

I see plenty of fouls the other team gets called on them that shouldn't be. Everybody acts like it's just state that gets called for BS fouls.

Blaming refs and umpires every time your team doesn't win is for losers. Was that foul atrocious? Yea it was but we didn't handle business and we had calls go our way also that wasn't the right call with the biggest one being the end of the Louisville game.

 

[tatedog]

The refs were a factor. But a bigger factor was that we pretty much disappeared offensively in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we could have expanded the lead more than we did. Both Notre Dame and Louisville did a great job of making us depend almost totally on Tori for offense with T getting rebounds and putbacks. I didn't see the balanced offense I've seen all season at all this weekend, and again, that has a lot to do with Notre Dame and Louisville

Seems like we did a whole lot of standing around without the ball for long stretches in the second half.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

We had more empty possessions than I can remember. You could see it coming that ND was getting back into it. We let them.

 

[deadheaddawg]

We had a great player leading a fast break down the floor with 6 seconds left only to be tackled and no foul called. Without that there would have been no Ogunbowle. Where is your "objectivity" ? We had the game stolen from us in the final seconds yet some seem hell bent on trying to rationalize why we should have lost. I don't get it.

lol at having the game stolen. We were not even winning at that point.

Quit whining and put your big boy pants on and take the loss like a adult

 

[the dog is on the loose]

Forget the call or no call at the end. Like I said in another post it was 40-25 in our favor in the third quarter. What happened? We blew it then that's what happened.

 

[tatedog]

Forget the call or no call at the end. Like I said in another post it was 40-25 in our favor in the third quarter. What happened? We blew it then that's what happened.

I'll tell you what happened... the refs who were clearly pulling for ND woke up and realized they better get their asses in gear.**

 

[deadheaddawg]

lol. I love the conspiracy theory crowd. Yep refs, from all sports, get together twice a year and lay out a plan for screwing Mississippi State. They have super secret conventions about just us.

We had calls go our way all tournament. We had calls go against us all tournament.

That's basketball. This idea that the refs are out to get us is silly. It's a sign of immaturity and sore losing

 

[anon1787432961]

lol. I love the conspiracy theory crowd. Yep refs, from all sports, get together twice a year and lay out a plan for screwing Mississippi State. They have super secret conventions about just us.

We had calls go our way all tournament. We had calls go against us all tournament.

That's basketball. This idea that the refs are out to get us is silly. It's a sign of immaturity and sore losing

I think the refs try their best to keep the game fair and also either intentionally or unintentionally give the team that is losing more calls to keep the game close

The way the last few seconds went down was like this:

1) T knocks the ball away from Mabry pass, gives to Morgan
2) Morgan starts fast break, Mabry cuts off Morgan hard with her body
3) Refs do not call foul since it is a tie game, calling the foul there would almost give MSU the win
4) When the players saw that the refs did not call the foul, they all sort of paused, stopping the flow of the game.
5) T had to reach out and touch foul to stop the awkward resulting fast break for ND, at least she was aware, everyone else stood there shell shocked. Again, the refs are thinking it's fair to not have a call end the game, it's probably going to overtime with only 3 seconds left.
6) ND makes a wild 3 point shot
7) Refs try to make up for the no call by reviewing how much time might have been left to give MSU another shot. Keep in mind that anything below .6 is not possible to touch and score, women cannot jump to the rim and tap the ball in.
8) The game ends even more awkwardly and the refs know by not being involved at the end they gave ND an undeserved last second shot that happened to go in.

Meanwhile, ESPN who sells entertainment, runs with the "clutch" game winning shots by ND.

Crazy sequence of events that occurred in 3 seconds that we could debate from now until 2020. Vic could have called timeout, we could have fouled the inbound, Morgan could have thrown the ball higher and further down court, refs could have called a foul, etc etc etc.

 

[maroonmania]

lol. I love the conspiracy theory crowd. Yep refs, from all sports, get together twice a year and lay out a plan for screwing Mississippi State. They have super secret conventions about just us.

We had calls go our way all tournament. We had calls go against us all tournament.

That's basketball. This idea that the refs are out to get us is silly. It's a sign of immaturity and sore losing

I really have no great quarrel with the officiating through the NCAA tournament in general. I just don't see how in the situation last night a defender can come through the path of a dribbler and take her to the floor with no call? That's not a difficult judgement call to make. And I say that fully acknowledging that we caught a break Friday night on the no call on Louisville's last drive in regulation.

 

[The_Pylon]

I think it had a lot to do with the fact that she gave up possession of the ball before she got hit. I know I looked downcourt to see where she was going with the ball. The pass would have been on the money if she hadn't have been hit, but when she passed it, no call. I think if she keeps possession, she goes to the line.

 

[anonymous.sixpack]

Why would there have been no Ogunbowle? She would have had even more time to get the same shot. Mo wasn’t gonna shoot 3 free throws.

Exactly

 

[61dawg]

I think the refs try their best to keep the game fair and also either intentionally or unintentionally give the team that is losing more calls to keep the game close

The way the last few seconds went down was like this:

1) T knocks the ball away from Mabry pass, gives to Morgan
2) Morgan starts fast break, Mabry cuts off Morgan hard with her body
3) Refs do not call foul since it is a tie game, calling the foul there would almost give MSU the win
4) When the players saw that the refs did not call the foul, they all sort of paused, stopping the flow of the game.
5) T had to reach out and touch foul to stop the awkward resulting fast break for ND, at least she was aware, everyone else stood there shell shocked. Again, the refs are thinking it's fair to not have a call end the game, it's probably going to overtime with only 3 seconds left.
6) ND makes a wild 3 point shot
7) Refs try to make up for the no call by reviewing how much time might have been left to give MSU another shot. Keep in mind that anything below .6 is not possible to touch and score, women cannot jump to the rim and tap the ball in.
8) The game ends even more awkwardly and the refs know by not being involved at the end they gave ND an undeserved last second shot that happened to go in.

Meanwhile, ESPN who sells entertainment, runs with the "clutch" game winning shots by ND.

Crazy sequence of events that occurred in 3 seconds that we could debate from now until 2020. Vic could have called timeout, we could have fouled the inbound, Morgan could have thrown the ball higher and further down court, refs could have called a foul, etc etc etc.

Watch the replay, Vivians did foul her on the inbound and they wouldn't call it.

 

[Hail State]

We very much should’ve won that game and were right to expect to do so.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Just looked at that last play in regulation vs Louisville. Easy to see how that was not called. Yes, there was contact, but T had inside and forward position, did not run into the shooter, rather the shooter ran into T, and T had her arms straight up until after the ball was released.

Had the shooter actually managed to get ahead of T before attempting the layup, and/or had T not gone straight up with her arms, we may well have seen a foul called.

There is no way what Mabry did to Mo was remotely equivalent to what T did vs the Louisville shooter.

Add to that the fact that T was getting hammered plenty under the basket by Louisville, and it becomes even less comparable. It's one thing for a ref to make a judgement about contact on a shot when it is a close call but entirely another when a defender lunges in and knocks over a ball carrier.

Hell, we got called a few times for just, "reaching in" vs ND.

 

[maroonmania]

ok--but that has zero to do with the tackle at the end, what happened before this game was history. The play at Louisville was not clearly a foul. Maybe--but if you are going there-Big T gets fouled on half her shots that are not called.She was fouled late yesterday(they hit her arm and the ball went sideways) she got mad and fouled.I wonder why the Refs thought her shot went sideways? Just because she is 6'7" doesn't give the other team the right to mug her on every shot.

Agreed, yes there could have been a foul called on Big T at the end of the Louisville game but it wasn't as nearly as cut and dried IMO as the one in the open floor on MW. Beyond that, even with the no call Louisville still had a point blank put back to win the game that they missed which was a much higher percentage shot than a free throw. The blown call against us with ND not only cost us free throws but also the possession of the basketball which in turn cost us the game. As another poster stated, the Louisville player initiated contact on the drive in that game whereas the ND defender initiated the contact on the play against MW.

 

[maroonmania]

I think it had a lot to do with the fact that she gave up possession of the ball before she got hit. I know I looked downcourt to see where she was going with the ball. The pass would have been on the money if she hadn't have been hit, but when she passed it, no call. I think if she keeps possession, she goes to the line.

Well yea, because she was in the act of passing when she got hit. That's the reason it was pretty easy to knock the ball loose. That doesn't affect the fact that she was knocked to the floor though by a player cutting into her path.

 

[maroonmania]

A referee isn't going to make a call there 9 out of 10 times in that situation.

I very much disagree. While refs do tend to want to swallow their whistle at the end of games I think that particular kind of foul in that situation would be called more times than not.

 

[maroonmania]

The refs were a factor. But a bigger factor was that we pretty much disappeared offensively in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we could have expanded the lead more than we did. Both Notre Dame and Louisville did a great job of making us depend almost totally on Tori for offense with T getting rebounds and putbacks. I didn't see the balanced offense I've seen all season at all this weekend, and again, that has a lot to do with Notre Dame and Louisville

No doubt, if we had played well offensively the game would not have been close at the end. But, being honest, we have not played well offensively in ANY of our Final Four games the last 2 years and in four games played have yet to score more than 60 points in regulation in any of the four. What I can't believe is that VV only took 2 shots in the 4th quarter for us and I don't believe she took any in the last 6 or 7 minutes. You have to get your best offensive player shots at crunch time.

 

[blacklistedbully]

And if you don't think that was clearly a foul at the end of Louisville game then there's no point in discussing this with you cause your maroon glasses are on too tight.

I had been accepting this as gospel until I went back and replayed it from my DVR. T was ahead of the shooter, and inside of the shooter. At no point did she reach in. At no point did she hack the player shooting. At no point did she lower her arms forward as the player shot to affect the shot.

T made a b-line for the basket, stayed in front and inside. The video clearly shows the shooter moved toward T, and clearly shows the shooter going into T's back with her hip. That was no more a foul than if a dribbler decided to dribble right into the back of a retreating player on a fast break.

The defender does not have to allow the shooter a free path to the basket. The defender does not have to give up her inside position.

 

[blacklistedbully]

WTF? It was a tie game...we had the ball on a fast break. Should have been on-the-line with one of the nation's best free-throw shooters. If Mo makes the first, but misses the 2nd, a rebound by us (like our chances) effectively wins it for us. A rebound by them does not allow them to advance the ball with a TO.

Even if they rebounded they would burn seconds trying to get it up court. And even if they were able to get clear with a second or two left, we had 2 fouls to give, which we could have used to force a catch-and-shoot, with no opportunity to get a set shot.