OT Yankees. Bumgarner
- Thread starter FELONIOUSMONK
- Start date
You have to give up something to get something. If they won’t give Torres Frazier or Florial, it’s not happening
I'd not make a trade with Yanks were I a rival GM. Cashman's track record of fleecing other teams is fabulous and as i write this I can't think of a Yankee prospect who blossomed somewhere else after a trade. Do other teams even scout?
-Torres is a 2-time allstar and probably the third best pure hitter on the team and a future MVP. His inclusion by you makes me think you haven't watched him play because he wouldn't even be in a deal for Scherzer.
-Frazier profiles as an ++ hitter and possible allstar (Cash has said they wold never trade him for a rental)
-Florial is the top ranked prospect in the organization that ranks as one of the best prospect pools in the league. He is blocked at the major league level but if you are going to trade him, its probably not going to be for a rental.
None of these guys are gonna be given up for a rental, let alone a rental that is on the downswing of his career.
If I had to guess a deal you would see would be a guy like Loisaga or Abreu along with one of the catcher prospects and maybe an MLB ready player like Estrada
That seems like the most reasonable possibility.
Now.....Tanaka, Happ, CC, Paxton, German....and eventally Severino and Montgomery. Where does another starter fit ? One that's an upgrade ?
My point is at least one of those guys. I’m guessing Frazier,
You can say what you want, but then don’t expect to get him. Somebody will pay big for him, he’s a starter having a solid year with big time postseason success. The Giants are also solidly in the race, they aren’t going to just give him away.
Do I think the Yankees trade Torres or Frazier? No, not really. However perception and reality are normally 2 different things. I also suspect Bumgarner signs an extension with the team he goes to. He purposely blocked Trades to all top teams so he can force them to give him an extension to waive the no trade clause.
If they get MadBum with an extension, they will give up Frazier or Florial without blinking.
Good points and I do actually agree with you that with an extension those guys are much more likely to be included. I will say though is you have to consider the teams that will also be going after his services and where the Yankees minor league systems ranks compared to them.
The yankees pool is so deep that guys 15-30 would be top 10 prospects with a lot of organizations and there's not too many teams that can compete with that depth. For a team severly lacking in minor league depth the giants might be looking for a few good prospects vs one elite prospect.
Also are teams going to even want to sign him to a long term deal? He is solid but its clear he has lost his stuff a bit and if last FA period is any indication teams are not going to be knocking down the door for a pitcher with declining stuff on the wrong side of 30.
If we go under the assumption that he does not sign an extension and its a rental my point is it would take much less and unless a team is going to empty their prospect pool and overpay (Twins maybe?) the yankees are in a great spot.
I only go with MadBum if an extension is in play as part of the trade. If that is the case I dangle Andujar as the primary piece. Even though he is extremely talented as a hitter, the Yankees certainly have enough offense and are covered at 3rd base and he needs to grow significantly on the defensive front. Even though Frazier is talented, he is also an expendable piece as well. Remember that the Rule 5 Draft comes into play (Floriel is eligible for the Rule 5 draft this year) and some players will have to moved from the 40 man roster or the farm system to make room to protect prospects.
The monkey wrench here is Giants are now only 1 game under 500 with only 3 teams and 3 1/2 games out of wild card. May no longer be sellers. You Yankee fans need to root for the Mets for the next 3 games.
I don’t understand why the Yanks wouldn’t trade Frazier...at times, it seems they don’t want him anywhere near their team.
As a Reds fan, I can still remember "can't miss" prospect Brandon Claussen for Aaron Boone not to mention Paul O'Neill for Roberto Kelly
Players like him are a dime a dozen. There is nothing special about Clint Frazier.
He can be a 30-100 player and at a low cost for the next 4-5 years. He has a ton of value.
He may hit 30. He will never get a 100 rbi. Not even close. Hitting 30 home runs isn't a big deal anymore. Over 50 players will have 30 HR this year.
And he can't play the field.
He was fine in the OL until the concussion. Give him an offseason and let's see how much he can improve.
Except he has proven he can hit in big leagues as opposed to an unproven minor league prospect. Safer bet for the team trading for the player.
He was on pace for a 30+ home run season with 100 RBI's this year until he was demoted.
53 Games, 209 plate appearances, 11 home runs, 34 RBi's
Frazier has a very good bat. Honestly, I would prefer him as DH over Encarnarcion (who is completely feast or famine, which normally doesn't translate well in the post season).
Deivi Garcia and friends are tearing it up down there. Where do these guys fit in the Bronx? Except for Gardner and CC all the the current Bronx residents will be around for a while if they pay them. Could Cashman and his scouts he that good? I know they kick *** internationally whereas the Dodgers go after American boys. Both work pretty damned well.
Frazier sucks and no NL club will want him.
Typical Yankee prospect hype. Bumgarner is gonna command a big price and a loser like Frazier who the Yankees don’t even want on the MLB team in the OF getting him?
Get the F outta here. Giants aren’t giving this dude away for trash. Team is playing well and he is a legend there. Gonna sell him for ten cents on the dollar?? Zero chance Yankees get him.
Typical Yankee prospect hype. Bumgarner is gonna command a big price and a loser like Frazier who the Yankees don’t even want on the MLB team in the OF getting him?
Get the F outta here. Giants aren’t giving this dude away for trash. Team is playing well and he is a legend there. Gonna sell him for ten cents on the dollar?? Zero chance Yankees get him.
Alright let’s be real here. Bum is an above average pitcher right now. He hasn’t been a stud in years and he pitches in the NL so is era gets help. Nobody, including the Yankees, is gonna give up anything good for a rental that isn’t a stud. And he is NOT a stud. The Yankees wouldn’t trade Frazier for Bumgarner straight up and if they would the Giants should jump on that deal because Frazier’s floor is a solid big league outfielder for the next ten years. His ceiling is perennial all star. Giants aren’t winning anything this year and he is not resigning so if they actually get a player like Frazier for him that would be robbery.
I think NY would trade Frazier straight up for Bumgarner, Frazier is a depth player for NY now, at best, since he's buried in the minors even with Stanton injured, and Bum would go into the rotation as the 3rd starter , they need him for the playoffs badly.
When the trade was made there was no reason to think it was one sided. Paulie just came into his own in NY. Kelly hit over .300 both of his years with the Reds. Just couldn't stay healthy iirc.
They definitely would not. First of all with how much Judge and Stanton get hurt we need outfield depth. He is arguably our third best outfielder right now. Finally he is worth more on the trade market than a rental player. Maybe if Bumgarner signed an extension, but I don’t think they want Bumgarner long term. Rather spend on Cole. I would be more interested in Castillo.
3rd best outfielder? lol. He's in the minors with Stanton still out hurt. Backup outfielders are a lot easier to find then starting pitchers with a record of success in the playoffs. Much Easier.
Not Tauchman. Tauchman has options and they could have brought up Frazier over Tauchman. Tauchman is better defensively, a better base runner, and decent hitter, but without Frazier's power, which they really don't need at this point. Again, when it comes to the playoffs, having a third starting pitcher, is much more important than a backup Outfielder.
PS- I enjoy the debate, don't mistake my posts as being overly critical of your posts, you make good points.
I think Frazier is just way overrated. He certainly isn't the 3rd best outfielder. He isn't that good a fielder and the Yankees didn't even consider him for DH and went out and got Encarnacion.
Besides his tirades show he isn't a fit for the Big Apple.
It would cost an absolute fortune to get Castillo right now. He's under team control for 4 more seasons after this. Waiting for Cole to be a free agent is a much better play/chance at happening.
I doubt Mad Bum is getting traded now since the Giants are actually fighting for a playoff spot.
I hear ya, but Tauchman is not playing everyday. They want Frazier to play everyday and they don’t want to use his options up. Frazier is a crazy talented hitter.