OT: RIP Lou Dobbs

[MADHAT1]

Wrong. Try again.

Jurors in the New York criminal trial against former President Donald Trump have convicted him of 34 felony counts of falsified business records.

20	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Aug. 1, 2017
21	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 863641	Aug. 1, 2017
22	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002821	Aug. 1, 2017
23	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Sept. 11, 2017
24	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 868174	Sept. 11, 2017
25	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002908	Sept. 12, 2017
26	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Oct. 18, 2017
27	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 872654	Oct. 18, 2017
28	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002944	Oct. 18, 2017
29	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Nov. 20, 2017
30	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 876511	Nov. 20, 2017
31	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002980	Nov. 21, 2017
32	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Dec. 1, 2017
33	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 877785	Dec. 1, 2017
34	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 003006	Dec. 5, 2017

Source: New York State Unified Court System

 

[ClassOf02v.2]

Similar to all political posts on this board, this thread makes me weep for the collective intelligence of our society. We do get what we deserve, I suppose.

 

[Kbee3]

Jurors in the New York criminal trial against former President Donald Trump have convicted him of 34 felony counts of falsified business records.

20	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Aug. 1, 2017
21	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 863641	Aug. 1, 2017
22	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002821	Aug. 1, 2017
23	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Sept. 11, 2017
24	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 868174	Sept. 11, 2017
25	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002908	Sept. 12, 2017
26	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Oct. 18, 2017
27	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 872654	Oct. 18, 2017
28	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002944	Oct. 18, 2017
29	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Nov. 20, 2017
30	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 876511	Nov. 20, 2017
31	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002980	Nov. 21, 2017
32	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	Dec. 1, 2017
33	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 877785	Dec. 1, 2017
34	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 003006	Dec. 5, 2017

Source: New York State Unified Court System

You're apparently ignoring the fact that a number of posters here sat in on the trial every day and came to an entirely different verdict than the unanimous one of the jury.

 

[BossNJ]

Just wondering what your feelings are about the CNN and MSNBC propaganda puppets who all lied about the laptop? You seem very on top of the Dobbs facts. As I said, I was familiar with his CNN career, and didn't follow him when he was on Fox. But some of the so-called need people on MSNBC major propaganda puppets.

Remind us all of who settled a ~800 million defamation lawsuit and is in the process of fighting several others.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Jurors in the New York criminal trial against former President Donald Trump have convicted him of 34 felony counts of falsified business records.

Count	Verdict	Business record	Date
1	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust	Feb. 14, 2017
2	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, bearing voucher number 842457	Feb. 14, 2017
3	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, bearing voucher number 842460	Feb. 14, 2017
4	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust Account, bearing check number 000138	Feb. 14, 2017
5	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust	March 16, 2017
6	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, bearing voucher number 846907	March 17, 2017
7	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust Account, bearing check number 000147	March 17, 2017
8	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	April 13, 2017
9	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 858770	June 19, 2017
10	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002740	June 19, 2017
11	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	May 22, 2017
12	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 855331	May 22, 2017
13	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002700	May 23, 2017
14	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	June 16, 2017
15	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 858772	June 19, 2017
16	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002741	June 19, 2017
17	Guilty	Invoice from Michael Cohen, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump	July 11, 2017
18	Guilty	Entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 861096	July 11, 2017
19	Guilty	Check and check stub, Donald J. Trump account, bearing check number 002781	July 11, 2017

oooohhhh checks, and wait, check stubs...and heaven forbid...bookkeeping entries!!!!

lulZ what was the underlying felony crime---specifically. Hurry up and explain before this kangaroo court so-called verdict gets tossed. Can't wait for Trump's DOJ to start investigating the political hack judges in Manhattan next year.

 

[RUBOB72]

They convicted him on basically heresy . There was no proof of a crime. Never doubt the corruption which abounds in NYC. A case which had gone way past the statute of limitations and which should never have tried as a criminal case. But you are not able to rationalize this bias. So enjoy it now and actually you better enjoy that victory in court as it may be your last celebratory victory for awhile.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

You're apparently ignoring the fact that a number of posters here sat in on the trial every day and came to an entirely different verdict than the unanimous one of the jury.

And what felony charge was the Manhattan jury unanimous on? Thanks.

 

[RUBOB72]

Sad is the idiots who bought into the great unifier.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Just wondering what your feelings are about the CNN and MSNBC propaganda puppets who all lied about the laptop? You seem very on top of the Dobbs facts. As I said, I was familiar with his CNN career, and didn't follow him when he was on Fox. But some of the so-called need people on MSNBC major propaganda puppets.

Says the guy who said in another thread he only watches TV for sports. I guess he is getting all this 2nd hand from his X conspiracy sources. Maybe he'll post another 50 X links again that bo one will pay attention to. Lulz.

 

[MADHAT1]

They convicted him on basically heresy . There was no proof of a crime. Never doubt the corruption which abounds in NYC. A case which had gone way past the statute of limitations and which should never have tried as a criminal case. But you are not able to rationalize this bias. So enjoy it now and actually you better enjoy that victory in court as it may be your last celebratory victory for awhile.

Nov 8, 2019 — A judge in New York ordered President Donald Trump to pay $2 million for misusing his charitable foundation. Was that hearsay
Feb 6, 2018 A federal court approved a $25 million settlement with students who said they were duped by Donald Trump and his now-defunct Trump University. Trump did give a great lesson to those students in the art of fraud by making them the mark.
May 9, 2023 — A jury has found Donald Trump liable for sexually abusing advice columnist E. Jean Carroll in 1996.. grab en by the ***** moment that came back and grabbed Trump in the wallet
"There's none so blind then those that refuse to see."
Hearsay my butt, some people are born followers and refuse to accept the facts.
Trump will probably win and make the United States less free for a lot of Americans and with a corrupt supreme court change election laws so only those his kind want to vote will be able to vote and illegals are not part of that but will be used to suppress the votes of many legal voters.

Remember this in your blind loyalty to a criminal who uses every trick in the book to gain power and cares more for that power than the people who put him there.
Oppose his will , like every President that defended democracy allowed, and you'll be part of this
unless you bow down to him like a loyal subject is expected to:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller

 

[MADHAT1]

And what felony charge was the Manhattan jury unanimous on? Thanks.

Each guilty verdict was unanimous and had to be.

Judge Merchan made that explicit when when delivering jury instructions before they started deliberations

“Your verdict, on each count you consider, whether guilty or not guilty, must be unanimous; that is, each and every juror must agree to it,” he said while reading the jury instructions.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Each guilty verdict was unanimous and had to be.

Judge Merchan made that explicit when when delivering jury instructions before they started deliberations

“Your verdict, on each count you consider, whether guilty or not guilty, must be unanimous; that is, each and every juror must agree to it,” he said while reading the jury instructions.

So you're clueless, as usual. What was the felony the Manhattan jury unanimously found him guilty of?

 

[MADHAT1]

You're clueless, as usual.

you asked, you received the facts you asked for.
I guess I was clueless when I thought you really wanted the answer

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

Just wondering what your feelings are about the CNN and MSNBC propaganda puppets who all lied about the laptop? You seem very on top of the Dobbs facts. As I said, I was familiar with his CNN career, and didn't follow him when he was on Fox. But some of the so-called need people on MSNBC major propaganda puppets.

I think the media failed there. I have larger thoughts on it but at its core, the media dropped the ball on the laptop story. I think MSNBC is largely useless as a news outlet. Rachel Maddow makes me cringe because she'll rant about right wing conspiracies and then drops random conspiracies all over her show. MSNBC isn't news, it's entertainment just like much of Fox is now. If that's your thing (Not you specifically, I mean in general), they have at it. I certainly wouldn't turn to the talking heads at MSNBC or on Fox and Friends for actual news.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

you asked, you received the facts you asked for.
I guess I was clueless when I thought you really wanted the answer

You haven't cited a felony. Wow your reading comprehension sucks.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

Did those lawsuit $$$ come out of your pocket? No it didn’t my friend… enjoy the next 3 + months.

LOL, what does this have to do with my point? You are basically asking why I have an issue with Dobbs. It's not because he supports Trump. I have issues with Dobbs because at the end of his career, he was a hairpulling, gas lighting propagandist. And to back that up, I point out that his propagation of election lies on air cost Fox millions. It's not an opinion that Dobbs was a gas lighting propagandist. He was in fact, just that.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

You say conspiracy … sure stick with that thinking Ty… point is both sides have in the past relied upon what is termed conspiracy.

Great. There certainly have been some doozy left wing conspiracies. One of the dumbest, currently, is this idea that assassination on Trump was actually concocted by his people to try to gain more sympathy. I saw one talking head float that on MSNBC.

But none of this disproves my point or stance on Dobbs. He was a legend in the industry who at the end of his career had turned into a highly partisan propagandist that told such exceptional BS on air that it cost him his job and his employer hundreds of millions of dollars (and let's also note, Dobbs later admitted he had little proof to back up what he said).

 

[Kbee3]

Remind us all of who settled a ~800 million defamation lawsuit and is in the process of fighting several others.

MSNBC ?

 

[ashokan]

NY State's governor had to mount an effort to quell unease among NY businesses who now realize just how corrupt and strange NY's legal institutions have become.

Misdemeanors that were invalidated by statute of limitations were magically made into felonies to get extra time made possible by Cuomo CV extensions. Old nuisance payments that the Trump team made, were of a sort so routine that the leading expert in such cases said there was no case. His testimony was not was not allowed in court.

Bragg himself refused to pursue the case prior to the magic conjuration. The magic was the suggestion that the payments might have been cover-up for election crimes that made "felony" tag used. Of course in NY/DC real crimes dont need to exist when you have corrupt judges and toxic juries who can be relied on to "stick-it to the man."

Part of this mess was known fact that presidents have immunity in order to be able to do their jobs instead of doing CYA. It was also known the judge had a daughter who made millions off Biden campaign donors and the obvious recusal never happened.

****** Daniels had also lost a case to Trump and owed him $300,000 for legal expenses. Michael Avenatti was convicted of trying to extort Nike as well as stiff IRS, embezzling client funds (****** included), identity theft, wire fraud. He was sentenced to 14 years. This was a guy the MSNBC crowd wanted as a presidential candidate.

I dont think the lawfare vs Trump was expected to work. I think they thought they would get a clueless public to reject Trump. Instead of that they now see DT as Donald Shakur or Donald Mandela. I know there are good Dems because a lot of them are leaving the crew of misfits running the party into an extinction event (dangerous because their criminals and gangs and violent dependents will be alone to their own devices). However the crew at the helm are most corrupt and vicious I ever saw

New York governor seeks to quell business owners’ fears after Trump ruling

Kathy Hochul says law-abiding businesspeople have ‘nothing to worry about’ after question on state’s commercial climate

www.theguardian.com

 

[RUBOB72]

Nov 8, 2019 — A judge in New York ordered President Donald Trump to pay $2 million for misusing his charitable foundation. Was that hearsay
Feb 6, 2018 A federal court approved a $25 million settlement with students who said they were duped by Donald Trump and his now-defunct Trump University. Trump did give a great lesson to those students in the art of fraud by making them the mark.
May 9, 2023 — A jury has found Donald Trump liable for sexually abusing advice columnist E. Jean Carroll in 1996.. grab en by the ***** moment that came back and grabbed Trump in the wallet
"There's none so blind then those that refuse to see."
Hearsay my butt, some people are born followers and refuse to accept the facts.
Trump will probably win and make the United States less free for a lot of Americans and with a corrupt supreme court change election laws so only those his kind want to vote will be able to vote and illegals are not part of that but will be used to suppress the votes of many legal voters.

Remember this in your blind loyalty to a criminal who uses every trick in the book to gain power and cares more for that power than the people who put him there.
Oppose his will , like every President that defended democracy allowed, and you'll be part of this
unless you bow down to him like a loyal subject is expected to:

We could mention a few others from Chappaqua NY and Rehoboth Beach Delaware but why prolong giving credence to your bias. NY ?…you do realize they have been after Trump since he first came down the elevator at Trump Tower in 2015. Proud and yeah I like Trump… never tried to hurt me… when did he cause you actual harm? … did he steal your lunch money? Defending Democracy… you sound like all the left talking heads. Like I said … you better enjoy the next 3+ months.

 

[Kbee3]

We could mention a few others from Chappaqua NY and Rehoboth Beach Delaware but why prolong giving credence to your bias. NY ?…you do realize they have been after Trump since he first came down the elevator at Trump Tower in 2015. Proud and yeah I like Trump… never tried to hurt me… when did he cause you actual harm? … did he steal your lunch money? Defending Democracy… you sound like all the left talking heads. Like I said … you better enjoy the next 3+ months.

^^^ It's like Jan. 6th never happened with this one.

 

[RUBOB72]

Nov 8, 2019 — A judge in New York ordered President Donald Trump to pay $2 million for misusing his charitable foundation. Was that hearsay
Feb 6, 2018 A federal court approved a $25 million settlement with students who said they were duped by Donald Trump and his now-defunct Trump University. Trump did give a great lesson to those students in the art of fraud by making them the mark.
May 9, 2023 — A jury has found Donald Trump liable for sexually abusing advice columnist E. Jean Carroll in 1996.. grab en by the ***** moment that came back and grabbed Trump in the wallet
"There's none so blind then those that refuse to see."
Hearsay my butt, some people are born followers and refuse to accept the facts.
Trump will probably win and make the United States less free for a lot of Americans and with a corrupt supreme court change election laws so only those his kind want to vote will be able to vote and illegals are not part of that but will be used to suppress the votes of many legal voters.

Remember this in your blind loyalty to a criminal who uses every trick in the book to gain power and cares more for that power than the people who put him there.
Oppose his will , like every President that defended democracy allowed, and you'll be part of this
unless you bow down to him like a loyal subject is expected to:

BTW: there was no proof nor a true conviction in the made up sexual assault trial . The the civil suit was just another case of the corrupt NY judicial system . Like I said yesterday you truly are dumb. So you’re in favor of allowing ILLEGAL invaders voting in US elections? I just can’t believe you go along with that. Loyal Veteran is much different. Highly doubt you ever served any military time.

 

[Kbee3]

BTW: there was no proof nor a true conviction in the made up sexual assault trial . The the civil suit was just another case of the corrupt NY judicial system . Like I said yesterday you truly are dumb. So you’re in favor of allowing ILLEGAL invaders voting in US elections? I just can’t believe you go along with that. Loyal Veteran is much different. Highly doubt you ever served any military time.

^^^ And I wonder why Cheetolini would say that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and he wouldn't lose any supporters ?
I believe him.

 

[RC1991]

^^^ It's like Jan. 6th never happened with this one.

He’s delusional.

 

[ashokan]

What a mess

 

[Westcoast]

who determines what a lie is

Generally, when one knowingly states a falsehood, it's considered a lie. It's not a matter of who determines it. Trump and his team (as well as the talking heads on Fox) knew Trump had lost to Biden in 2020. But they continued to say Trump had really won, or the election had been "stolen". That is the very definition of lying. Dobbs was a participant. And all those lies led to Jan 6 and the deaths of multiple people - including Ashley Babbit. None of the deaths would have occurred without the lies about the election.
Sad but true.

 

[Kbee3]

I always loved the way he jumped into action when the Capitol was invaded, Capitol police officers attacked ( by the law-and-order crowd), chanting to hang his vice -president ringing out, hunting going on for Democrat representatives...all aimed at preventing the counting of the Electoral College votes in an election he knew he lost.
What other presidential candidate would be inspiring and encouraging such treason...ever ?
Besides Gus Hall I mean.

 

[RUdude]

Geez this thread went sideways.....I think most of the reference to Lou in his later years he went from a more likeable and well rounded reported than modern day Jim Cramer type to predominantly political...

 

[RUBOB72]

Quite frankly not much different than what comes out of the yaps of those lunatics on CNN, MSNBC etc.or the daily presser with raggedy Ann up as their mouthpiece. Can’t wait until she joins the Trump staged the assassination attempt on his life . It was all fake. TDS abounds for some here.

 

[RUBOB72]

So you're clueless, as usual. What was the felony the Manhattan jury unanimously found him guilty of?

He loves to copy and paste the same garbled BS of MSM and the NY court system. Merchan a Democratic hack never really gave that jury a concise and direct charge as to the actual crimes. Watch in the coming weeks how the democratic run cities attempt to change their thinking on homeless, drug havens , crime issues, border controls, illegals and crimes they commit. Going to be fun.

 

[rudad02]

Dobbs was a pompous, arrogant, intellectual lightweight with a lot to say.

 

[RUBOB72]

Dobbs was a pompous, arrogant, intellectual lightweight with a lot to say.

Heck I thought you were doing a personal assessment. He was much of what you say but then how did he somehow survive in media. Millions heard his shows. Yet this guy was like Teflon.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

I always loved the way he jumped into action when the Capitol was invaded, Capitol police officers attacked ( by the law-and-order crowd), chanting to hang his vice -president ringing out, hunting going on for Democrat representatives...all aimed at preventing the counting of the Electoral College votes in an election he knew he lost.
What other presidential candidate would be inspiring and encouraging such treason...ever ?
Besides Gus Hall I mean.

Lol you're so far behind the story. As usual.

Maybe you can explain why Trump's offer for 10k+ National Guard troops for Jan6 was declined by the DC mayor and Capitol Police? Stretch Pelozzi would still like to know.

According to USA Today that video was posted at 4:17pm but he tweeted for peace and calm before that during the riot:

2:38 p.m.​

Trump tweets, "Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!"

3:13 p.m.​

Trump tweets: “I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!”

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...electoral-college-stolen-election/6568305002/

 

[dconifer0]

Similar to all political posts on this board, this thread makes me weep for the collective intelligence of our society. We do get what we deserve, I suppose.

It makes me sad for my kids.

I don't think our collective intelligence has dropped, though. It's just that thanks to the internet, people who don't know much, but "want" certain things to be true, now have a stage. Not sure which notion has more followers; 1) the assassination attempt staged by President Trump or 2) The assassination attempt was enabled by President Biden by providing lame SS protection. Both are dumb.

I will give President Biden credit for giving voice for what I've thought for about 25 years: having people sitting in little hives where they only hear or accept what they want to believe, from people who feel the same way they do, is toxic and is a path to our downfall. Demonizing anybody who disagrees with you is a new thing in this country, relatively speaking, but it's here to stay.

The internet has really F'ed things up, and there's no going back now. We will be divided forever. Thanks, Al Gore, for inventing that...

 

[rudad02]

Heck I thought you were doing a personal assessment. He was much of what you say but then how did he somehow survive in media. Millions heard his shows. Yet this guy was like Teflon.

You need to watch your wise *** mouth.

 

[vic_torre42]

What a mess

I can’t argue against Victor’s statement unfortunately

-vic

 

[Ru-baby]

The repeating of echo chamber propaganda and half truths by some scarlet faithful is very disappointing to see.

 

[vic_torre42]

The repeating of echo chamber propaganda and half truths by some scarlet faithful is very disappointing to see.

Honestly, this thread belongs on the premium current events board because it’s automatically going to divide the football board.

We’re all diehard Rutgers fans and football is around the corner.

It shaping up to be an exciting season!

-vic

 

[Knight Shift]

I think the media failed there. I have larger thoughts on it but at its core, the media dropped the ball on the laptop story. I think MSNBC is largely useless as a news outlet. Rachel Maddow makes me cringe because she'll rant about right wing conspiracies and then drops random conspiracies all over her show. MSNBC isn't news, it's entertainment just like much of Fox is now. If that's your thing (Not you specifically, I mean in general), they have at it. I certainly wouldn't turn to the talking heads at MSNBC or on Fox and Friends for actual news.

Thanks for your reasoned post. All of the major news outlets pretty much suck, except perhaps, NewNation, which has horrible ratings. They do a reasonable job of presenting the points of view of both sides and try their best to keep it in the middle.

What I find annoying, however, is the snarky, haughty view of the crowd that laps up CNN, MSNBC, etc, and then deride posts about the vax efficacy in preventing spread and natural immunity as conspiracy theories. There has been hours of testimony before Congress and from former government officials such as Paul Offit who have shared their views on the vaccine. You don't have to be an immunologist to realize the government was pushing a narrative, and some will still not back off the narrative. People, mainly young adult students, were forced to take a vaccine or lose their jobs or student status when the vax was not needed for the large majority of young people. There used to be something in this country called reasoned debate, and not a resort to mockery and gaslighting and destroying people who hold a contrary or different view on an issue. And many of these people who rather stifle and shut down such debate think they are on the side of preserving democracy. Quite comically ironic.

 

[ashokan]

Generally, when one knowingly states a falsehood, it's considered a lie. It's not a matter of who determines it. Trump and his team (as well as the talking heads on Fox) knew Trump had lost to Biden in 2020. But they continued to say Trump had really won, or the election had been "stolen". That is the very definition of lying. Dobbs was a participant. And all those lies led to Jan 6 and the deaths of multiple people - including Ashley Babbit. None of the deaths would have occurred without the lies about the election.
Sad but true.

States had legitimate questions about how 2020 vote was jiggered around using CV as an excuse. Only after the vote did they realize how "unusual" a lot of activity was. Tons of ballots showed-up in middle of the night (after faking a counting stop). Later on it was found that many addresses, names etc weren't lining-up. Empty lots and fast food restaurants were used as resident addresses. AZ was only lost by around 12k votes (and Fox called AZ suspiciously early).

There was never an attempt for Pence to throw out results. There were states that wanted to investigate what had happened to them on the fly because too many things were out of whack - including destroyed evidence that was supposed to have been saved. Corrupt areas like Philly and Phoenix (McCain cartel controlled it) refused any reviews of votes. States that wanted to audit addresses were threatened by proven corrupt DOJ. Reviews like FL in 2000 were blocked and "questioners" were portrayed as "election denier criminals" when there were no such laws. Its 1st A to question anything.

France and UK both tried mail0in ballots and the process was so corrupt that it got ditched. Covid gave an excuse for US to seize the moment for the same monkey business. There are so many angles to an election (voter fraud vs election fraud - state vs federal protocols - quick deadlines that can be abused etc) that foul play is easy when top authorities are running the game..

USPS Confirms Truckload of 288K Completed Ballots Went from N.Y. to Pa. in 2020

https://headlineusa.com/usps-confirm-ballots-ny-pa-2020/

DOJ issues guidance cautioning states on so-called election 'audits'​

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/doj...ates-called-election-audits/story?id=79119096