ALWAYS something that costs money. No doubt about it. It’s bad when something goes wrong and you’re excited because it only cost $400 and a half a day of your life wasted.
OT - Pool advice
- Thread starter Seinfeld
- Start date
ALWAYS something that costs money. No doubt about it. It’s bad when something goes wrong and you’re excited because it only cost $400 and a half a day of your life wasted.
There are a lot of common misconceptions in this thread. I have made my living designing and installing extremely high end swimming pools for the past 21 years and I am happy to answer any questions you have.
Gunite/Shotcrete (Concrete Pool) vs Fiberglass or Vinyl: The word gunite is a name brand of equipment used to pneumatically place concrete. A "gunite" pool is a concrete pool. When installed by a qualified builder using proper steel reinforcement and a certified nozzleman, It is the most durable option available. Additionally, it will provide the most flexibility in design. You are only limited by your imagination. Fiberglass and Vinyl can be less expensive to install on the front end, but you are limited in the size, shape, configuration & overall design. They are also have a much shorter lifespan (25-30 years max vs longer than you or I will be around) Gunite is the only type of pool that I would ever consider. There is no material difference in water maintenance cost of similar gunite/vinyl/fiberglass pools with similar equipment sets.
Engineering: I have a geotechnical report prepared and every pool I design or build is engineered and stamped by a licensed structural engineer. This should not be omitted and any pool builder who is resistant to providing engineering should be avoided
Salt water vs Chlorine: Both Saltwater and traditional chlorine pools have the exact same level of chlorine. A "Saltwater Chlorine Generator" converts sodium chloride into sodium hypochlorite (chlorine). It works exactly the same way as traditional chlorine, it just delivers the chlorine in a different way. You get all of the same drawbacks of chlorine with the additional drawbacks of highly corrosive water and a limited material pallet. The salt does act as a softener, however; so the water feels very nice to swim in. If you want to actually reduce your chlorine levels, you need an alternate oxidizer (Ozone is a great option)
Chlorine delivery options: Salt - see above. Tabs - tabs are stabilized chlorine and they contain cyanuric acid. Tabs are the easiest product for the typical homeowner to use and store, but if cyanuric levels get too high, it can cause problems over time. Keep an eye on the cyanuric levels and drain the water down a foot or so every few years (or rainwater will dilute) as needed. ORP (Oxidation Reduction Potential) - An ORP system will use liquid chlorine (sometimes granular) and either muriatic acid or Co2 to maintain the ORP & pH in real time. It uses sensors to measure levels and will dose small amounts of liquid chlorine / acid into the pool to provide the most stable, most consistent water quality. These systems are most often found on commercial pools but they are not uncommon in residential applications. They are expensive and they require frequent maintenance and calibration, so they are not right for everyone.
Ozone: Is a very powerful oxidizer when used in the proper concentrations and it easily handles waterborne pathogens that chlorine can struggle with (Crypo). If you go ozone, don't go cheap. There are too many ozone generators on the market that are far too small to be effective in a swimming pool application. Depending on volume, you will want somewhere between 2 & 30gr/hr. If the unit is less than one gr/hr, you are wasting you money. https://www.cwtozone.com/ or https://mpo3tech.com/ . NWA is correct, ozone should be installed with a degassing vessel and either outside or vented with a catalytic destruct system.
Interior Finishes: Marble plaster is a 7-10 year product that has been around forever. Cheap, but has to be replaced often. Pebble last 15-30 years or longer, but can be rough. This is especially true if you have a poor install crew or if you water chemistry is off. Quartz is a 15-30 year product that has a much finer aggregate than pebble. It is not nearly a rough a pebble, but it is slightly more difficult to install. All tile interior - highest of the high end, with proper install will last forever, but it is extremely expensive. I wont discuss stainless steel, but that is an option as well (Unless you want to hear about it)
Plumbing specifications are critical! Per 2018 ISPSC do not exceed 6 ft/sec in any suction plumbing or 8 ft/sec in any return. Variable speed pumps are a 100% must, but install flow meters and do not overdrive the plumbing. Stay away from anyone trying to plumb a pool with all 1 1/2" or 2" PVC. Make sure they do the math and understand why.
Equip: Jandy (Fluidra) or Pentair. Stay away from anything else.
If you plan to maintain the pool yourself, you should understand the Langelier Saturation Index - LSI: https://blog.orendatech.com/langelier-saturation-index There is more to pool maintenance than emptying skimmers and adding shock/salt.
Gunite/Shotcrete (Concrete Pool) vs Fiberglass or Vinyl: The word gunite is a name brand of equipment used to pneumatically place concrete. A "gunite" pool is a concrete pool. When installed by a qualified builder using proper steel reinforcement and a certified nozzleman, It is the most durable option available. Additionally, it will provide the most flexibility in design. You are only limited by your imagination. Fiberglass and Vinyl can be less expensive to install on the front end, but you are limited in the size, shape, configuration & overall design. They are also have a much shorter lifespan (25-30 years max vs longer than you or I will be around) Gunite is the only type of pool that I would ever consider. There is no material difference in water maintenance cost of similar gunite/vinyl/fiberglass pools with similar equipment sets.
Engineering: I have a geotechnical report prepared and every pool I design or build is engineered and stamped by a licensed structural engineer. This should not be omitted and any pool builder who is resistant to providing engineering should be avoided
Salt water vs Chlorine: Both Saltwater and traditional chlorine pools have the exact same level of chlorine. A "Saltwater Chlorine Generator" converts sodium chloride into sodium hypochlorite (chlorine). It works exactly the same way as traditional chlorine, it just delivers the chlorine in a different way. You get all of the same drawbacks of chlorine with the additional drawbacks of highly corrosive water and a limited material pallet. The salt does act as a softener, however; so the water feels very nice to swim in. If you want to actually reduce your chlorine levels, you need an alternate oxidizer (Ozone is a great option)
Chlorine delivery options: Salt - see above. Tabs - tabs are stabilized chlorine and they contain cyanuric acid. Tabs are the easiest product for the typical homeowner to use and store, but if cyanuric levels get too high, it can cause problems over time. Keep an eye on the cyanuric levels and drain the water down a foot or so every few years (or rainwater will dilute) as needed. ORP (Oxidation Reduction Potential) - An ORP system will use liquid chlorine (sometimes granular) and either muriatic acid or Co2 to maintain the ORP & pH in real time. It uses sensors to measure levels and will dose small amounts of liquid chlorine / acid into the pool to provide the most stable, most consistent water quality. These systems are most often found on commercial pools but they are not uncommon in residential applications. They are expensive and they require frequent maintenance and calibration, so they are not right for everyone.
Ozone: Is a very powerful oxidizer when used in the proper concentrations and it easily handles waterborne pathogens that chlorine can struggle with (Crypo). If you go ozone, don't go cheap. There are too many ozone generators on the market that are far too small to be effective in a swimming pool application. Depending on volume, you will want somewhere between 2 & 30gr/hr. If the unit is less than one gr/hr, you are wasting you money. https://www.cwtozone.com/ or https://mpo3tech.com/ . NWA is correct, ozone should be installed with a degassing vessel and either outside or vented with a catalytic destruct system.
Interior Finishes: Marble plaster is a 7-10 year product that has been around forever. Cheap, but has to be replaced often. Pebble last 15-30 years or longer, but can be rough. This is especially true if you have a poor install crew or if you water chemistry is off. Quartz is a 15-30 year product that has a much finer aggregate than pebble. It is not nearly a rough a pebble, but it is slightly more difficult to install. All tile interior - highest of the high end, with proper install will last forever, but it is extremely expensive. I wont discuss stainless steel, but that is an option as well (Unless you want to hear about it)
Plumbing specifications are critical! Per 2018 ISPSC do not exceed 6 ft/sec in any suction plumbing or 8 ft/sec in any return. Variable speed pumps are a 100% must, but install flow meters and do not overdrive the plumbing. Stay away from anyone trying to plumb a pool with all 1 1/2" or 2" PVC. Make sure they do the math and understand why.
Equip: Jandy (Fluidra) or Pentair. Stay away from anything else.
If you plan to maintain the pool yourself, you should understand the Langelier Saturation Index - LSI: https://blog.orendatech.com/langelier-saturation-index There is more to pool maintenance than emptying skimmers and adding shock/salt.
I think it's pretty location dependent, but I suspect most people on this board live in a place where a pool adds value to your house, even if not as much as it costs to install it.
Been a long time since I've been there, but had family friends outside tampa in a subdivision where it felt like 90% of the houses had a pool and a screen lanai enclosure. They said it was basically the reverse of Mississippi and that not having a pool limited your potential buyers.
Agreed. I also would say value of the home matters as well. It's hard to argue you will get a nice piece of it back when you sell the house that has a pool that costs 20-30% or more of the value of your home. You won't get much back on that investment. All things real estate are relative to the local market and neighborhood.
Any knowledge of good ones in the Jackson metro? I'm considering/being pressured by the wife/boss...
Regarding critters, last summer, every morning at around 7 am, I had a couple of squirrels that got in the pool and backstroked for a little while. They did every day for about a month and then they disappeared. I wonder if they'll come back this year.
I've had two snakes get into the pool that I've had to fish out, and have found more than a few dead in the skimmers. The crazy thing is the frogs that get in there. Huge bullfrogs. And you can't get them out....they swim so fast that you can't get the net on top of them without some skill.