It's not a blind spot in any way. They are all making a very clear decision. They are choosing money over human rights. It's that simple.
OT: Phil Mickelson
- Thread starter Knightmoves
- Start date
It's not a blind spot in any way. They are all making a very clear decision. They are choosing money over human rights. It's that simple.
The story was what he said, not where he’s playing golf. He **** it up for a lot of guys. Accord to Norman, a lot of players that had signed backed out after Phil’s interview. Phil was going to benefit big time before the interview. He still will get a big check but lost a lot of money in endorsements.
Phil lost much of his endorsements, incldg Callaway, WorkDay, KPMG, Amstell with his apology that totally missed the mark. His main issue with the PGA Tour seems to be about media rights to his performances on the course.
“When players went to the Saudi International earlier this month, Mickelson took the opportunity to talk about the why the Saudi Golf League, a competitive business which has sought to lure the world’s best golfers, had merit against the background of what the PGA Tour currently offers.
“If the tour wanted to end any threat [from rival leagues], they could just hand back the media rights to the players. But they would rather throw $25 million here and $40 million there than give back the roughly $20 billion in digital assets they control,” Mickelson told Golf Digest. “They also have access to my shots, access I do not have. They also charge companies to use shots I have hit.”
Mickelson’s math was that PGA Tour players got 26 percent of revenues, while the PGA Tour shot back and said its revenue sharing was actually 55 percent, in line with other leagues. To be fair, no player in any major sports league ever owns the rights to their own video on the field of play, and yes, leagues can sell that video to companies for use. This practice has been happening in the NFL and NBA since the early 90s.”
@Knightmoves
all the sponsors stuck with him when he was making the move. They only dropped him after that recorded interview. It’s always worst when you see or hear it from them.
all the sponsors stuck with him when he was making the move. They only dropped him after that recorded interview. It’s always worst when you see or hear it from them.
First, Phil has cash flow issues no matter how big or small his betting habits are. He didn't pay his caddie and he had to sell his jet. Yes, the kids are still eating we all presume. This is why the Saudi tour and $$$ is attractive.
I have attached the 2019-2020 player rules handbook for PGA Tour members. (I am sure they have not changed much). First of all on page 127 you can see that players are explicitly forbidden to play on conflicting tours without approval and there is a laundry list of what is needed for approval. The Saudi tour needs approval from everyone on the PGA tour as well as players that are members of both the PGA and DP tours. This requirement is not something new like claimed earlier in this thread. Phil as well as all players knew there would be issues. This discussion that the DP tour might not come down hard on players like Sergio might be true but Sergio is gonna have PGA tour implications since he is a duel member.
Second, Phil made some horrible comments about the PGA tour leading up to the release of his comments by the author. Those comments are in violation of another PGA tour player rule. You cant talk bad about the PGA Tour. Until Phil clears the air and falls on a sword, he is not likely playing in the PGA Championship. It's not happening. That puts Phil in a tough space, he would have to have a press conference prior to the PGA where he takes back the negative stuff he said about the PGA Tour but at the same time answers questions about playing the upcoming Saudi Tour.
PUBLIC COMMENTS, PUBLIC ATTACKS The favorable public reputation of PGA TOUR, its players and its tournaments are valuable assets and create tangible benefits for all PGA TOUR members. Accordingly, it is an obligation of membership to refrain from making comments that unreasonably attack or disparage others, including, but not limited to tournaments, sponsors, fellow members/players and/or PGA TOUR. Speech that could be reasonably viewed as hateful, abusive, obscene and/or divisive is expressly prohibited. Responsible expressions of legitimate disagreement with PGA TOUR policies are not prohibited. However, public comments that a member knows, or should reasonably know, will harm the reputation or financial best interest of PGA TOUR, a fellow member/player, a tournament sponsor or a charity are expressly covered by this section. Any violation of this section shall be considered conduct unbecoming a professional.
As I mentioned earlier, I know a number of people that work at the PGA Tour. If Phil wants to play in the PGA he needs to clean up the mess he created. If he wants to play on the Saudi Tour then we will likely never seem him in a PGA event again.
Do I think its right that the PGA tour is doing this? Read the player handbook and see how important it is to them to have the best players at their tournaments to support their sponsors. If that stops happening, the PGA Tour falls apart. That is why they will go down swinging.
I have attached the 2019-2020 player rules handbook for PGA Tour members. (I am sure they have not changed much). First of all on page 127 you can see that players are explicitly forbidden to play on conflicting tours without approval and there is a laundry list of what is needed for approval. The Saudi tour needs approval from everyone on the PGA tour as well as players that are members of both the PGA and DP tours. This requirement is not something new like claimed earlier in this thread. Phil as well as all players knew there would be issues. This discussion that the DP tour might not come down hard on players like Sergio might be true but Sergio is gonna have PGA tour implications since he is a duel member.
Second, Phil made some horrible comments about the PGA tour leading up to the release of his comments by the author. Those comments are in violation of another PGA tour player rule. You cant talk bad about the PGA Tour. Until Phil clears the air and falls on a sword, he is not likely playing in the PGA Championship. It's not happening. That puts Phil in a tough space, he would have to have a press conference prior to the PGA where he takes back the negative stuff he said about the PGA Tour but at the same time answers questions about playing the upcoming Saudi Tour.
PUBLIC COMMENTS, PUBLIC ATTACKS The favorable public reputation of PGA TOUR, its players and its tournaments are valuable assets and create tangible benefits for all PGA TOUR members. Accordingly, it is an obligation of membership to refrain from making comments that unreasonably attack or disparage others, including, but not limited to tournaments, sponsors, fellow members/players and/or PGA TOUR. Speech that could be reasonably viewed as hateful, abusive, obscene and/or divisive is expressly prohibited. Responsible expressions of legitimate disagreement with PGA TOUR policies are not prohibited. However, public comments that a member knows, or should reasonably know, will harm the reputation or financial best interest of PGA TOUR, a fellow member/player, a tournament sponsor or a charity are expressly covered by this section. Any violation of this section shall be considered conduct unbecoming a professional.
As I mentioned earlier, I know a number of people that work at the PGA Tour. If Phil wants to play in the PGA he needs to clean up the mess he created. If he wants to play on the Saudi Tour then we will likely never seem him in a PGA event again.
Do I think its right that the PGA tour is doing this? Read the player handbook and see how important it is to them to have the best players at their tournaments to support their sponsors. If that stops happening, the PGA Tour falls apart. That is why they will go down swinging.
Agree with RUin85FLa.
This is survival time for the PGA Tour vs the deep pockets of the Saudi League. Allowing tour players to play in the Saudi league will strip mine talent from the PGA and threaten its profitability going forward. PGA has to fight for its golf market rights now. Tour exemptions for Saudi league events is a huge issue.I expect the PGA Tour to play hardball with Saudi league events. The next stop is court.
This is survival time for the PGA Tour vs the deep pockets of the Saudi League. Allowing tour players to play in the Saudi league will strip mine talent from the PGA and threaten its profitability going forward. PGA has to fight for its golf market rights now. Tour exemptions for Saudi league events is a huge issue.I expect the PGA Tour to play hardball with Saudi league events. The next stop is court.
He didn't screw it up. He was asked the question. The narrative was already out there.
As expected (by some here), the PFA Tour just announced they are taking a hard line. No wavers for other tours.
Does Phil play in London and risk suspension from the PGA Tour?
The line is now drawn in the sand for PGA Tour players. Play in the Saudi events and you don’t play in our tournaments.
Cue up the media questions for Phil at the PGA tourney next week at Southern Hills.
The line is now drawn in the sand for PGA Tour players. Play in the Saudi events and you don’t play in our tournaments.
Cue up the media questions for Phil at the PGA tourney next week at Southern Hills.
Something tells me Phil’s not showing up to Southern Hills.
Why? It’s his last dance. He is all-in on the Saudi league. Last chance to see Phil on the PGA tour. I’m willing to bet on it.
For Phil and players of his general age. Play less tournaments make a lot more money. They don't need the PGA like the young crowd. Nor are they expected to win on the PGA Tour, where you make the big money only in the top 5. No word from the R&A, Augusta and the USGA. Doubt the Ryder Cup cares either way. Best players play. This blood money issue is bullcrap. When the European Tour took the money from the UAE, another country with major human rights issues and money from the Saudis to hold a sanction tournament in their country. The blood money didn't start with Phil, it's been going on for years without mention by the media.
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I don’t think he stands up in front of the media and faces the question about why he is playing on the Saudi tour when he basically called it blood money. I don’t think he stands up there and says — I need the cash because I’m a ****** gambler.
I also think the fans will be brutal. Ryder Cup brutal.
Ryder Cup is run by the PGA which has issued a statement last year:
Only the PGA of America was direct in its answer, with CEO Seth Waugh stating at the 2021 PGA Championship that those who joined the rival league would not be allowed in future PGA Championships or Ryder Cups
The members of the PGA of America (club pros and Tour pros) will have a say in the matter. The PGA Tour doesn't have that issue.
You realize that if a tour pro is kicked off the PGA Tour he is likely no longer PGA professional. So the tour pros that go to Saudi tour have no vote/say in the matter. The PGA doesn’t give a damm what the club pros think about Saudi tour players playing in the PGA Championship. They may consider what current PGA tour members think but how many of them are going to bat for the Saudi crew?
The PGA of America is different then The PGA Tour. Both under the PGA shield but vastly different organizations. The PGA of America has 30,000 members so the loss of a few members to the LIV from the Tour ranks means nothing if club pros want it reversed and they have that power if that is what they wish. There is a reason why there is a new league.
Phil doesn't think he's done anything wrong. He'll do the press conference under the guise of 'I'm helping out the PGA Tour players of the future by making the Tour better by making this stand', he'll defend his title, and then he'll go off and make tens of millions with the Saudi Tour.
He does have a 5-year exemption to all tournaments including majors so maybe not. Now if you mean make a run that's a different story.
He now has a lifetime invite to the Masters and PGA. Don't know about The Open.
I heard yesterday on Golf Channel, Phil owed his caddie, Bones, over $900k in back salary which led to the split.
Ya think he has been stiffing his brother since?
As I posted above, the second he joins the Saudi tour the lifetime invite to the PGA Championship and Ryder Cup are gone. Augusta, USGA and the R&A still have to decide and of course all is subject to change.
My brother lives in the same community as Bones and John Rahm in Scottsdale. The word out there (not from Bones or Rahm) is that Bones walked away due to being owed 6 figures by Phil. Haven’t heard the 900K figure but I suspect that it’s true.
Im thinking that Phil withdraws from the PGA at Southern Hills next week. No way he wants to face media questions about his Saudi Golf involvement and future with the PGA Tour in golf.
I expect that he’ll play in the Saudi London event on 6/9 and be suspended from the tour when the US Open is played the following week. Imo Phil is the architect of his own demise and is generally not well liked by players on the PGA Tour. Southern Hills may be Phil’s Swan Song with the Tour.
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100% spot-on. It's not only hypocritical - beyond all belief - it's disgusting. Unfortunately it "doesn't fit" their narrative in this case.
Aramco ( Saudi Arabian Oil Company) is doing it's best to make the Saudi tour a success..But his new Aramco sponsorship is bigger than all of those others combined!
I wouldn't be surprised to hear they start sponsoring PGA tour players that want to make the move
Greg Norman is getting some static on basically saying in an interview ( about the Saudi's killing Jamal Khashoggi) :
“We’ve all made mistakes."
Adding:
"Everybody has owned up to it, right? It has been spoken about, from what I’ve read, going on what you guys reported"
later in that interview he said :
"Take ownership, no matter what it is. Look, we’ve all made mistakes and you just want to learn from those mistakes and how you can correct them going forward.
This whole thing about Saudi Arabia and Khashoggi and human rights, talk about it, but also talk about the good the country is doing to change its culture"
Norman continued with this:
"There’s not many countries that can stand up and be proud of that. They can’t be proud of their past — there’s a lot of countries in this world that have a cross to bear too — but they are looking after the younger generation.”
“We’ve all made mistakes."
Adding:
"Everybody has owned up to it, right? It has been spoken about, from what I’ve read, going on what you guys reported"
later in that interview he said :
"Take ownership, no matter what it is. Look, we’ve all made mistakes and you just want to learn from those mistakes and how you can correct them going forward.
This whole thing about Saudi Arabia and Khashoggi and human rights, talk about it, but also talk about the good the country is doing to change its culture"
Norman continued with this:
"There’s not many countries that can stand up and be proud of that. They can’t be proud of their past — there’s a lot of countries in this world that have a cross to bear too — but they are looking after the younger generation.”
Kind of shocking that Norman would put a positive spin on the Khashoggi murder.
The Saudi Golf League needs a new front man. Norman is not well liked by Tour players or golf associations. They can do better.
I didn't think it was possible to be even more tone deaf and offensive than Phil, but Norman outdid him by a wide margin.