OT-Parisi Speed School

[ruhudsonfan]

So here we have zap checking in.

As a reminder, zap was first team all state in three sports as a high schooler.

And oh yeah, made it to the major leagues.

And double oh yeah, his father is baseball Hall of Famer and one of the most iconic sports figures in the history of the friggin country.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

So here we have zap checking in.

As a reminder, zap was first team all state in three sports as a high schooler.

And oh yeah, made it to the major leagues.

And double oh yeah, his father is baseball Hall of Famer and one of the most iconic sports figures in the history of the friggin country.

Multi-sport develops more muscles.. more points of coordination.. at some point, to reach the highest levels in a particular sport.. that will count for something. Not to mention preventing burn-out of kid where they essentially have a job from age 4.

 

[zappaa]

I think RU5781 has great intentions, but he must be careful.
IMO...he should stress his son plays multiple sports till he's at least 12, I would recommend thru 8th grade...It will make him a better baseball player.
Reduce the chance of burnout.
Help him develop other muscles.
Help him develop balance, hand/eye and time and space awareness.

Be sure he's not conditioned to only practice, and participate in games, he must have an overwhelming desire to play.

To me, playing is hitting rocks into the woods playing wifflle ball and stick ball games for 4 hours, throwing pop ups to yourself and throwing balls against a wall and fielding grounders.

After that play a game of one on one basketball with your friend, guarding him will teach you the lateral motion you need to jump on grounders...you get what I'm saying I know!

"Dad, can I go to the game with you today"
No Dale....go outside and play.

Lighting army men on fire and letting the plastic drippings bomb your model aircraft carrier and setting it on fire is optional

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I think RU5781 has great intentions, but he must be careful.
IMO...he should stress his son plays multiple sports till he's at least 12, I would recommend thru 8th grade...It will make him a better baseball player.
Reduce the chance of burnout.
Help him develop other muscles.
Help him develop balance, hand/eye and time and space awareness.

Be sure he's not conditioned to only practice, and participate in games, he must have an overwhelming desire to play.

To me, playing is hitting rocks into the woods playing wifflle ball and stick ball games for 4 hours, throwing pop ups to yourself and throwing balls against a wall and fielding grounders.

After that play a game of one on one basketball with your friend, guarding him will teach you the lateral motion you need to jump on grounders...you get what I'm saying I know!

"Dad, can I go to the game with you today"
No Dale....go outside and play.

Lighting army men on fire and letting the plastic drippings bomb your model aircraft carrier and setting it on fire is optional

I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with both my sons about throwing a tennis ball off the roof of our detached garage and how that was catching "fly balls." Or throwing the tennis ball off the front steps to practice grounders.

The informal nature of playing and practicing like that also forces you to use your imagination. Who here that is 40 or older didn't pitch into a box painted on a wall and pretend it was the world series? Or field the game winning grounder or make the throw to the plate into the box?

All this formalized instruction at a young age turns these kids into robots. Baseball practice becomes nothing more than a slot on the schedule...right between Kumon and an organized play date with Joey.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

But Zap, I gotta say, I would have been pissed if I didn't get to ballpark every day of the summer...lol

 

[vkj91]

It amazes me how almost every baseball field is empty from May through the rest of summer.

not sure where you live but in many towns fields are hard to get. So much summer baseball these days...fall as well

 

[RU5781]

I think RU5781 has great intentions, but he must be careful.
IMO...he should stress his son plays multiple sports till he's at least 12, I would recommend thru 8th grade...It will make him a better baseball player.
Reduce the chance of burnout.
Help him develop other muscles.
Help him develop balance, hand/eye and time and space awareness.

Be sure he's not conditioned to only practice, and participate in games, he must have an overwhelming desire to play.

To me, playing is hitting rocks into the woods playing wifflle ball and stick ball games for 4 hours, throwing pop ups to yourself and throwing balls against a wall and fielding grounders.

After that play a game of one on one basketball with your friend, guarding him will teach you the lateral motion you need to jump on grounders...you get what I'm saying I know!

"Dad, can I go to the game with you today"
No Dale....go outside and play.

Lighting army men on fire and letting the plastic drippings bomb your model aircraft carrier and setting it on fire is optional

Thanks Zap. I agree with doing other things.
Our team is in the championship now (we lost game one in a close game last night...3 game series).
When this is over, he will be starting swimming/martial arts in the summer, and we are looking for something in the fall.

 

[vkj91]

While RU5781's story seems to have some holes, I'm not sure why so many people want to bust his balls. He says the money isn't an issue so it's not like he's pissing away the kids college money and his kid enjoys it. Worst case scenario kid never gets above 5'3, never plays HS sports, and is left with fond memories of time spent with dad doing something he enjoyed as a kid. I'd imagine there are a fair number of people on this site telling him he is doing something wrong while their kids are sitting in their bedrooms staring at an IPAD all day.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

While RU5781's story seems to have some holes, I'm not sure why so many people want to bust his balls. He says the money isn't an issue so it's not like he's pissing away the kids college money and his kid enjoys it. Worst case scenario kid never gets above 5'3, never plays HS sports, and is left with fond memories of time spent with dad doing something he enjoyed as a kid. I'd imagine there are a fair number of people on this site telling him he is doing something wrong while their kids are sitting in their bedrooms staring at an IPAD all day.

That's not the point, at least for me.

I don't much care what anyone spends their money on. Tittay bars, lottery tickets or individualized sports training. whatevs...

The idea that an alleged professional trainer is putting a 6 year old in cage with 60 mph fastballs coming at him, or that they are throwing him hooks to teach him to wait on the ball and not bail out early, is what piqued my interest.

There are two main threads to this conversation in my view.

1. is the structured professional training worth it for a 6 year old.

2. are the methods the alleged professional trainer is using sane for a 6 year old?

a 6 year old should be hitting off a tee to develop habits (to the extent that is even possible). Nobody will convince me that you should be throwing curveballs at 6 year old or that it will have any lasting impact on their swing development.

 

[miketd1]

Something I've noticed as a parent of a U5: If a kid is really into something -- anything -- their interest and curiosity can become borderline obsessive/compulsive.

These interests seem to boil up randomly and typically result in some sort of information binge session that can span a few days. Then, they'll drop the topic completely nearly just as quickly/randomly (for my kid: dinosaurs, bugs, TKD, basketball, kites, other languages, spelling).

But then you'll see certain interests that keep bubbling up. For my son, it's soccer, cars/racing, the solar system, science, and math. Left to his own devices, he'll consistently seek out activities that revolve around those subjects. Or if something pops on TV that involves that subject, he'll sit and absorb like a sponge.

I think it would be a fairly safe investment to put money into feeding a kid's genuine passion as long as it remains their passion and not yours. That includes professional sports training.

 

[vkj91]

That's not the point, at least for me.

I don't much care what anyone spends their money on. Tittay bars, lottery tickets or individualized sports training. whatevs...

The idea that an alleged professional trainer is putting a 6 year old in cage with 60 mph fastballs coming at him, or that they are throwing him hooks to teach him to wait on the ball and not bail out early, is what piqued my interest.

There are two main threads to this conversation in my view.

1. is the structured professional training worth it for a 6 year old.

2. are the methods the alleged professional trainer is using sane for a 6 year old?

a 6 year old should be hitting off a tee to develop habits (to the extent that is even possible). Nobody will convince me that you should be throwing curveballs at 6 year old or that it will have any lasting impact on their swing development.

I wasn't talking to you and I know you knew that because we know where each other stands on this. I also said there were obvious holes in his story. I just think there are worse things he could be doing with his son at this age. I also agree that one on one hitting instructions are pretty useless before 9-10 years, maybe some 8 year olds. That being said, my son is 8 and gets private QB lessons, it's probably a waste of money but when its christmas or his birthday that's what he asks more. I'd imagine Xbox games are just as big a waste.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Something I've noticed as a parent of a U5: If a kid is really into something -- anything -- their interest and curiosity can become borderline obsessive/compulsive.

These interests seem to boil up randomly and typically result in some sort of information binge session that can span a few days. Then, they'll drop the topic completely nearly just as quickly/randomly (for my kid: dinosaurs, bugs, TKD, basketball, kites, other languages, spelling).

But then you'll see certain interests that keep bubbling up. For my son, it's soccer, cars/racing, the solar system, science, and math. Left to his own devices, he'll consistently seek out activities that revolve around those subjects. Or if something pops on TV that involves that subject, he'll sit and absorb like a sponge.

I think it would be a fairly safe investment to put money into feeding a kid's genuine passion as long as it remains their passion and not yours. That includes professional sports training.

fair points

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I wasn't talking to you and I know you knew that because we know where each other stands on this. I also said there were obvious holes in his story. I just think there are worse things he could be doing with his son at this age. I also agree that one on one hitting instructions are pretty useless before 9-10 years, maybe some 8 year olds. That being said, my son is 8 and gets private QB lessons, it's probably a waste of money but when its christmas or his birthday that's what he asks more. I'd imagine Xbox games are just as big a waste.

unless it's Call of Duty...that's solid training right there

 

[Randal7]

Those days are over.

I think you are right. And part of the reason is, the inherent dangers associated with doing that (sad to say). Growing up in Bergen County in the 90's / early 2000's I used to go to Votee Park in Teaneck, Hackensack courts down Essex Street, Bergenfield, Englewood -- basically where ever there was the most competitive basketball game on that particular day.

As a white kid from a small suburban town (that was NOT teaneck or hackensack or Englewood), if you stick to your home courts you aren't going to play anybody even remotely decent! And it was fun rolling up and everybody being suspect of your ability, only to show them (through this beautiful democratic system on the courts that values skill) that you could ball. Chris Mullin used to do the same thing -- he grew up in Brooklyn, played at ALL the top courts in all the boroughs via the subway with his buddies (would go up to the Bronx to play the baddest dudes, even). He didn't need to go to a sports institute. He had it all right there, he just needed to go TO THE ACTION. But the guy was going to school at Xaverian in Bay Ridge -- lush and expensive brooklyn suburb -- his best training was hitting these neighborhoods and playing the best.

Back then there was value in that, and you could do it. Back then it was safe (enough) to get around and do what I've suggested. Ride bikes, get a ride in the morning from mom and a ride home in the evening from somebody else, etc. It's just a different world today. Which is sad because there's definitely community and an organic competitive spirit in what I've described above, versus this pecking order that is determined by which athletes have the best pedigree and training.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I think you are right. And part of the reason is, the inherent dangers associated with doing that (sad to say). Growing up in Bergen County in the 90's / early 2000's I used to go to Votee Park in Teaneck, Hackensack courts down Essex Street, Bergenfield, Englewood -- basically where ever there was the most competitive basketball game on that particular day.

As a white kid from a small suburban town (that was NOT teaneck or hackensack or Englewood), if you stick to your home courts you aren't going to play anybody even remotely decent! And it was fun rolling up and everybody being suspect of your ability, only to show them (through this beautiful democratic system on the courts that values skill) that you could ball. Chris Mullin used to do the same thing -- he grew up in Brooklyn, played at ALL the top courts in all the boroughs via the subway with his buddies (would go up to the Bronx to play the baddest dudes, even). He didn't need to go to a sports institute. He had it all right there, he just needed to go TO THE ACTION. But the guy was going to school at Xaverian in Bay Ridge -- lush and expensive brooklyn suburb -- his best training was hitting these neighborhoods and playing the best.

Back then there was value in that, and you could do it. Back then it was safe (enough) to get around and do what I've suggested. Ride bikes, get a ride in the morning from mom and a ride home in the evening from somebody else, etc. It's just a different world today. Which is sad because there's definitely community and an organic competitive spirit in what I've described above, versus this pecking order that is determined by which athletes have the best pedigree and training.

I used to do the same thing up through high school. Group of white kids rolling into the hood to play ball.

I used to like it even more when they would try and play rough...one time I was playing at a park in Paterson by Kennedy HS. And I set a pick on a kid and he crumpled like a $5 buck NYC umbrella. He got up and got in my face and said "how 'bout I knock you da f@ck out" I said, "if you insist..."

The first one you headlock and hip toss to their back and toll into an arm bar (in 1990 before anyone knew what MMA or jiu jitsu was) sets the record straight for everyone else...

 

[yesrutgers01]

VK makes some good points. If a parent has the money to pay for something their kid really loves, there is nothing wrong with that. I think that most are only referring or discussing the age and maybe the training methods.

I think it is closer to the 8-9 age where a kid really starts gaining from such structured training and better off just playing but everyone is different.

Also agree with Zap on playing multiple sports. Which I think everyone has agreed to. Makes me laugh sometimes when I think about Kevin. I think from about 8 or 9 yo he knew 100% that he was going to be a pro in the sport that he loved so much and was so passionate about...Basketball(NBA) haha good thing he played mult sports because as much as he always still loved BB he wasn't going to make the NBA but those skills he learned helped him tremendously as a OL. As a matter of fact, most visiting college coaches wanted to see him in his BB games as much as they wanted to see him on the field.

 

[Randal7]

I used to do the same thing up through high school. Group of white kids rolling into the hood to play ball.

I used to like it even more when they would try and play rough...one time I was playing at a park in Paterson by Kennedy HS. And I set a pick on a kid and he crumpled like a $5 buck NYC umbrella. He got up and got in my face and said "how 'bout I knock you da f@ck out" I said, "if you insist..."

The first one you headlock and hip toss to their back and toll into an arm bar (in 1990 before anyone knew what MMA or jiu jitsu was) sets the
record straight for everyone else...

Sounds like we both enjoy the spirit of that kind of competition! Those were fun days. And the fierce competition percolated up from those streetball games, but there was also an energy that cascaded down from the top levels of comp, as the fierce rivalries of the NBA and the way guys like Charles Oakley and Dennis Rodman played put juice into the competitive spirit

 

[RUckusbuck]

That is not safe for a 6 yr old even using lite flight balls.

That's sounds about right. We've tried 60+, but he can't get the bat around in time.

 

[RU5781]

I wasn't talking to you and I know you knew that because we know where each other stands on this. I also said there were obvious holes in his story. I just think there are worse things he could be doing with his son at this age. I also agree that one on one hitting instructions are pretty useless before 9-10 years, maybe some 8 year olds. That being said, my son is 8 and gets private QB lessons, it's probably a waste of money but when its christmas or his birthday that's what he asks more. I'd imagine Xbox games are just as big a waste.

What holes?
And I can tell you his lessons have paid extreme dividends.

 

[RU5781]

That is not safe for a 6 yr old even using lite flight balls.

Completely disagree.

 

[Metropolitans3]

Serious question: Running form? Are they training for track? Where does form come into when hitting an off tackle hole, back peddling covering a WR or running around a long stick defender with a lax stick in your hand?

I am guessing form is just one aspect of this speed training school? I thought it was all about firing up those short twitch muscles: Parachutes, plyometrics....

I can't speak to these trainers as my father couldn't afford such a thing when I was growing up but I was always considered fast compared to the other kids. One day I was running down on a kickoff and my dad took notice that I was not lifting my feet, kind of dragging or gliding along. He took me to a set of huge steps at the high school he went to as a kid and for what felt like a whole afternoon made me run up the steps. Never dragged my feet again.

 

[RUckusbuck]

Completely disagree.

Unless your son is the second coming, a baseball thrown at 60 mph will knock the bat out of the hands of a 6 year old.
60 mph is average velocity of an elite 11/12U pitcher.

 

[RU5781]

Completely disagree.

Unless your son is the second coming, a baseball thrown at 60 mph will knock the bat out of the hands of a 6 year old.
60 mph is average velocity of an elite 11/12U pitcher.

Out of the handful that was sent his way...The one that he managed to foul off did not knock the bat out of his hand.
Our league 11/12 has a few kids that can throw 60 and they aren't considered elite.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

And that's what makes a market

It's your money...you wanna spend it on futbol instruction, have at it.

But you provided the answer to your own inquiry.

Your son dribbles and shields better than you did, because he plays more soccer than you did.

My son hits better than I did at 6, because he hits baseballs everyday in my yard. Will I walk up behind him and lift his back elbow or fix his fingers...sure. And I've been doing that for 2 years. And he still needs to be reminded. Which is entirely my point. I can remind him for free as I'm skimming my pool, or I can pay some washed out minor leaguer $90 an hour to remind him.

At this age, it's about reps...not about "not developing bad habbits."

No 6 year old has a repeatable swing at this age anyway. They aren't capable.

Don't disagree with your premise batting lessons for 6 year is wasted money, but you also don't want them to be developing (and reinforcing bad habits). Bad habits learned over a long period of time are tough to break. At that age, though, they need to take the Yogi approach: See the ball and hit it, stop thinking.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

I'm a big believer in kids playing multi-sports. I was a multi-sport athlete and so were both of my daughters. It helps balance your training and each sport has skills that can translate to others. Humorous story. When my younger daughter was just starting to play rec softball (probably 2nd or 3rd grade), I was her coach and had to draft players for her team. Not really knowing the girls softball ability I took a different tact. My girls are also swimmers so I drafted an entire softball team composed of swimmers. A couple reasons: their parents were already accustomed to the need for practice so I weren't get too much push back and two most of the girls were stronger due to swimming. Well, half way through season people started asking what special thing I was doing girls because they were all crushing the ball at the plate (as much as a 2nd/3rd grader can crush). No real magic bullet just that they were athletic girls who had developed more upper body strength from swimming than their peers.

 

[RUJohnny99]

I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with both my sons about throwing a tennis ball off the roof of our detached garage and how that was catching "fly balls." Or throwing the tennis ball off the front steps to practice grounders.

If you want to throw an additional wrinkle into the game, borrow my dog some day. My youngest plays roof ball with him. If the kid catches the ball on a fly, he gets one point. If the dog gets it on a drop, the dog gets one point. If the dog gets off the deck with the ball, he gets two points. Adds reaction time & wind sprints to the "drill".

Those two can play that game for hours.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

An 11 year old consistently hitting 60 mph with control is absolutely considered elite. My son's good friend is 10 and hits the high 50s with control, and will touch 60 once in a while--maybe 3-5x per game, with a 50 pitch pitch count. He's far and the way the considered the best LL player in town, regardless of age. He's on the showcase circuit already and is widely considered one of the best kids at his age in the state. And we are in a Group 5 HS town, so he gets plenty of competition. He's not a big fish in a small pond.

The best pitching prospects in the state will hit frosh year of HS in the high 70s, maybe touch 80.

If 11 year olds throwing 60 with control is routine in your league, I'd get the gatorade tested...

 

[ruhudsonfan]

The all star teams that play into the Little League World Series are 11-13 year olds. Watch highlights of that tournament. The best pitchers are almost always 13 and top out in the mid 60s. And those teams are cherry picked from the best players in any given town/district.

For any town to have multiple 11 year olds hitting 60 with control--enough control to pitch to a 6 year old--that is pretty curious.

 

[RU5781]

The all star teams that play into the Little League World Series are 11-13 year olds. Watch highlights of that tournament. The best pitchers are almost always 13 and top out in the mid 60s. And those teams are cherry picked from the best players in any given town/district.

For any town to have multiple 11 year olds hitting 60 with control--enough control to pitch to a 6 year old--that is pretty curious.

I think your reading comprehension is suffering as of late.
I said they weren't elite...I didn't say a word about them pitching no hitters and throwing lasers down the middle of the plate.
Also, I would NOT let one of them pitch to my son...I never said that either.
Stop making stuff up.

 

[rpiseman]

Out of curiosity how big is your kid? If he is a huge 6 old 70+ lbs., I could see him hitting 65 if he has had a lot of reps. My son is the same age and is 4-6 and 73 lbs (my father in law is 6-6 280), he can hit 50 mph no problem because he has good hand eye coordination and his hands are strong enough to control the bat when he makes contact.

His best friend is a way better athlete than him but can't even control the bat when he makes contact at 50 mph, (he is only 50 lbs).

 

[RU5781]

Out of curiosity how big is your kid? If he is a huge 6 old 70+ lbs., I could see him hitting 65 if he has had a lot of reps. My son is the same age and is 4-6 and 73 lbs (my father in law is 6-6 280), he can hit 50 mph no problem because he has good hand eye coordination and his hands are strong enough to control the bat when he makes contact.

His best friend is a way better athlete than him but can't even control the bat when he makes contact at 50 mph, (he is only 50 lbs).

6.5yo, 4'6", 65lbs.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I think your reading comprehension is suffering as of late.
I said they weren't elite...I didn't say a word about them pitching no hitters and throwing lasers down the middle of the plate.
Also, I would NOT let one of them pitch to my son...I never said that either.
Stop making stuff up.

Maybe vkj will share the reply he got when asking the trainer his 8 year old goes to about throwing curve balls to a 6 year old.

It started with

"The guy is a f@kcking..."

and ended with

"moron"

And his guy played in the major leagues...not slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Good luck to your son...

 

[RU5781]

Maybe vkj will share the reply he got when asking the trainer his 8 year old goes to about throwing curve balls to a 6 year old.

It started with

"The guy is a f@kcking..."

and ended with

"moron"

And his guy played in the major leagues...not slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Good luck to your son...

LOL.
Sorry huddy, I'll defer to the 3 former pros and 1 current one that work with him.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Also- question for VKJ because he may be one of the few qualified to know. I'm thinking about that 60 mph pitch. I know at my age over 50, if I step in a cage and make contact with a few 60 mph pitches, I can feel it in my hands, elbows, etc. That is with fully developed muscles, bones and 175lbs. If a 6 yo weighing whatever they weigh these days actually makes contact with a pitch like that, could they do and muscle or structural damage from the impact?

 

[RU5781]

Also- question for VKJ because he may be one of the few qualified to know. I'm thinking about that 60 mph pitch. I know at my age over 50, if I step in a cage and make contact with a few 60 mph pitches, I can feel it in my hands, elbows, etc. That is with fully developed muscles, bones and 175lbs. If a 6 yo weighing whatever they weigh these days actually makes contact with a pitch like that, could they do and muscle or structural damage from the impact?

Seriously? Oy vey.

 

[RUDutch]

Lighting army men on fire and letting the plastic drippings bomb your model aircraft carrier and setting it on fire is optional

Reminds me of when my friend next door and I melted down his brother's GI Joe.

 

[applesktrack]

Also- question for VKJ because he may be one of the few qualified to know. I'm thinking about that 60 mph pitch. I know at my age over 50, if I step in a cage and make contact with a few 60 mph pitches, I can feel it in my hands, elbows, etc. That is with fully developed muscles, bones and 175lbs. If a 6 yo weighing whatever they weigh these days actually makes contact with a pitch like that, could they do and muscle or structural damage from the impact?

Do it several times a week for a few weeks and you won't feel it after awhile.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

LOL.
Sorry huddy, I'll defer to the 3 former pros and 1 current one that work with him.

So 4 former pros work with him on a regular basis?

Like I said, I look forward to following his ascension through to the Mets...

I can say I knew of him way back when

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Also- question for VKJ because he may be one of the few qualified to know. I'm thinking about that 60 mph pitch. I know at my age over 50, if I step in a cage and make contact with a few 60 mph pitches, I can feel it in my hands, elbows, etc. That is with fully developed muscles, bones and 175lbs. If a 6 yo weighing whatever they weigh these days actually makes contact with a pitch like that, could they do and muscle or structural damage from the impact?

I'm not involved now in baseball (no boys) but very involved in softball. Whenever a parent tells me how hard his/her daughter throws, I immediately subtract 5 to 10 mph in my mind and that is what the kid is really throwing.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I'm not involved now in baseball (no boys) but very involved in softball. Whenever a parent tells me how hard his/her daughter throws, I immediately subtract 5 to 10 mph in my mind and that is what the kid is really throwing.

exactly