OT-Next Stimulus Package

[Seinfeld]

In reading all the rumors about the upcoming round of stimulus, it seems pretty clear that it’s not going to be as broadly sweeping or as easy to get your hands on some $$$ as last time.

What do y’all think should be in it, and how should it vary from the last few rounds?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

It should go directly to individuals, not through banks, then businesses, then to people. It should only go to people who’s wages have been reduced due to covid, and it should be less than they would’ve made if they still had their job, so that they’ll have incentive to return to work.

 

[Seinfeld]

How do you feel about reduced annual income caps for those that would qualify? I’ll preface this by saying that I don’t personally “need” another check at the moment, but I think it’s BS to act like it’s only low income people that are hurting right now

 

[NWADawg]

It should go directly to individuals, not through banks, then businesses, then to people. It should only go to people who’s wages have been reduced due to covid, and it should be less than they would’ve made if they still had their job, so that they’ll have incentive to return to work.

An industry in Texas I work with told me a couple weeks ago that they were struggling with attendance partially because of govt money. Employees that made $12-$15/hr ($480-$600/week) would make $600 federal plus around $350 state unemployment if they were unable to work due to Covid. That's $950/week to not work. It would be hard for a person that is struggling to make ends meet to decide to give up $400/ week extra so that you could go back to work. I'm all for helping those that truly need help but we can't make being a good honest employee an expense.

 

[Seinfeld]

Agreed, and it at least appears that both the house and senate agree as well. From an unemployment standpoint, all discussions appear to be geared towards getting back to work rather than extending the current unemployment incentive. People can say what they want, but it absolutely is an incentive even for those not quite making as much as they might have otherwise. If you can make $1200/wk busting your tail or $1000/wk doing absolutely nothing, I know what most will choose

The interesting thing is going to be how they define getting back to work. If I took a week off on a temporary furlough last week while collecting unemployment, am I eligible for the back to work bonus the following week? If Congress then stipulates that you have to at least be out of work for a certain period of time, we’re the ones that only missed a couple weeks not negatively affected too? A lot of tough call to make, and my gut tells me that they’re are going to be a lot of unhappy citizens this round

 

[Xenomorph]

What is this stimulus you speak of?

 

[codeDawg]

An industry in Texas I work with told me a couple weeks ago that they were struggling with attendance partially because of govt money. Employees that made $12-$15/hr ($480-$600/week) would make $600 federal plus around $350 state unemployment if they were unable to work due to Covid. That's $950/week to not work. It would be hard for a person that is struggling to make ends meet to decide to give up $400/ week extra so that you could go back to work. I'm all for helping those that truly need help but we can't make being a good honest employee an expense.

PPP has been just as big of a shitshow. What you don't see in the new is a lot of self-employed people taking tens of thousands of dollars while still operating the business normally. I don't take salary for my business, so I missed out, but I know realtors and others who have put an extra $20K in the pocket this year between PPP and grants just for themselves while business has been trucking along. MANY businesses I know (in tech) are making record profits right now and taking government cash.

People are whining about working people who live in borderline poverty getting a little extra cash to help during a difficult time while they see no problem with all the businesses just pocketing the cash.

Now my position is that both need to be addressed in this next round. Working people out of jobs need support. Businesses need support, but both should have boundaries and oversight. Things are mostly open in a lot of the country right now. We don't have to spray trillions of debt in cash across the economy. If the stock market loses a little ground, the country and economy will go on. It's cyclical. We'll make it back soon enough.

 

[PubDawg]

Can the government please stop “fixing” everything? Geeze

 

[paindonthurt_]

I’m ok with it being an extra $600 for unemployment but the formula needs to work like this.
$600 fed plus $250 state (whatever it is)
If you made $300 a week you get max $300
If you made $450 a week you get mad $450
Maybe you get a free week once you return to work to incentivize people to go
If you made $1000 a week you get max $850 (250 plus 600)

I’m also ok with businesses getting money but if you make same profit or more than you did last year you should have to pay back any money you got.

IDEALLY WE’D JUST GET THE ECONOMY ROLLING AGAIN AND NOT PAY ANY!

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

In reading all the rumors about the upcoming round of stimulus, it seems pretty clear that it’s not going to be as broadly sweeping or as easy to get your hands on some $$$ as last time.

What do y’all think should be in it, and how should it vary from the last few rounds?

If it is given to a broad people again then it should be given on a card with a deadline to spend it if they really want to stimulate the economy. People who were given the last round even though their job was not affected by Covid probably just saved it. That does nothing to stimulate the economy.

 

[Seinfeld]

Good points, and what’s mind boggling for me is that all congress seems to want to do with PPP is relax the boundaries. Lower amounts that have to go towards payroll, increase loan forgiveness options, and basically just transform it into one giant handout.

I can appreciate the fact that there are significant expenses outside of payroll that needed to be addressed, so I have no issue with replacing the rules around how the money is being spent. That said, this was intended to be a LOAN, and if a business is not capable of paying this money back at some point during the next 3-5 years, it was likely never going to survive in the first place.

 

[SyonaraStanz]

PPP has been just as big of a shitshow. What you don't see in the new is a lot of self-employed people taking tens of thousands of dollars while still operating the business normally. I don't take salary for my business, so I missed out, but I know realtors and others who have put an extra $20K in the pocket this year between PPP and grants just for themselves while business has been trucking along. MANY businesses I know (in tech) are making record profits right now and taking government cash.

People are whining about working people who live in borderline poverty getting a little extra cash to help during a difficult time while they see no problem with all the businesses just pocketing the cash.

Now my position is that both need to be addressed in this next round. Working people out of jobs need support. Businesses need support, but both should have boundaries and oversight. Things are mostly open in a lot of the country right now. We don't have to spray trillions of debt in cash across the economy. If the stock market loses a little ground, the country and economy will go on. It's cyclical. We'll make it back soon enough.

You don't have to draw a salary to participate in PPP, if you're self-employed... You can still take advantage of the program, as there are unused funds just waiting to be snatched up. My wife (sole proprietor) got the max available to a sole proprietor. She never really hurt in her business, but she is missing on a couple school contracts, which have resulted in lost income. I started to feel bad about taking advantage of the program, even though she is justified with lost income, but then I think about the funds being available for that use and all the taxes I've paid in my lifetime, and I get over that feeling very quickly.

You're just being an idiot if you don't take advantage of money in which you're eligible.

 

[mstateglfr]

- individuals receive money. This applies to those affected by covid and only if they are still not working because of the pandemic. $400 per week on top of unemployment.
- businesses don't receive money. Too much corruption and poor use of funds.

Any system will have some level of misuse. Hopefully whatever the parameters, its less misuse than the last stimulus.

Its awful that we are just planning for foreclosures and evictions. Sucks.

 

[Seinfeld]

Considering the way that we like to kick the can down the road, I have zero confidence that this will be addressed, but the retirement problem is getting worse and worse by the day as well. Just read an article the other day that said that the amount of pension, 401k, and IRA accounts that have been gutted during the last couple months is staggering.

A lot of short term decisions being made these days that will have considerable long term consequences

 

[turkish]

PPP has been just as big of a shitshow. What you don't see in the new is a lot of self-employed people taking tens of thousands of dollars while still operating the business normally. I don't take salary for my business, so I missed out, but I know realtors and others who have put an extra $20K in the pocket this year between PPP and grants just for themselves while business has been trucking along. MANY businesses I know (in tech) are making record profits right now and taking government cash.

People are whining about working people who live in borderline poverty getting a little extra cash to help during a difficult time while they see no problem with all the businesses just pocketing the cash.

An acquaintance is in finance at a nationwide publicly traded company. They’ve been working their tales off over the last week or so, accounting for use of/ need for stimulus money. They’re giving back a huge portion of their eligibility because they couldn’t justify a need for it. I’m sure many many companies are not doing so, and I have a big problem with that.

 

[patdog]

If she's got lost income, she absolutely should take advantage of the program. Just be sure to document it well when it comes time to apply for loan forgiveness.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

There is only one way to fix unemployment/underemployment problems for more than a few months. Jobs.

If our government is going to implement the worst parts of socialism (govt control, welfare state, etc) it might as well utilize some of the better parts (public interest corporations, workforce training.,)

1. I think the next round needs to require some kind of retraining element for unemployed. Make it like a GI Bill or something. We will pay you to learn a real trade (robotics, batteries, other tech that needs to be re-shored), but your *** better commit to working on the backside.

2. If you are unemployed and want your check, we need to find something for you to do.. Contact tracing, litter pickup, whatever. Hell, actually teaching your kids if they stay home. No more free rides. Stimulus and backstops become entitlements.

3. Do the payroll tax cuts for people that are still working and employers.


No more bailouts of big public or big private companies that have run up the balance sheet to buyback stocks and pay hefty dividends over the years. Zombie companies are going to be a long term problem. And not a 17ing penny for private equity. Those bastards have run the debt up on all of these companies that are failing.

Capitalism is walking the plank right now...

 

[wsjmsu75]

I just wish I could get the first $1,200 payment I am supposed to get. Supposedly, for some strange reason, it is being delayed because I filed an amended 2019 tax return. Sheesh.

 

[Shmuley]

Infrastructure.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Make China and Bill Gates pay for it. but the money needs to go to infrastructure..., and by infrastructure, I mean roads, bridges, etc done by local contractors....no walking trails and tennis courts like Obama did

 

[SyonaraStanz]

If she's got lost income, she absolutely should take advantage of the program. Just be sure to document it well when it comes time to apply for loan forgiveness.

It's my understanding I don't have to document the lost income. I just have to show her income for that period of time to justify the payroll portion - any schedule C income for a sole proprietor is applied as "payroll." It's easy money for a sole proprietor, especially since they extended the forgiveness period.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Are they still paying stupid amounts for unemployment?

 

[JungRebel]

Until the end of July. I havent missed a day of work and am still making less than people who haven't worked since March. Dont know what the answer is but that ain't it.

ETA: I'm referring to people who otherwise were making the minimum wage before, up to people whose unemployment offered even $200 a week. People who were netting ~$3-400 a week are netting over $800 a week. Meanwhile someone who makes $15/hr. is currently netting $500 a week if they are still working.

 

[GloryDawg]

What is this stimulus you speak of?

I think the income limitations was not right. If you are unemployed or need help you should get it regardless of income.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

Government Solutions usually create more problems that they solve

 

[fishwater99]

If she's got lost income, she absolutely should take advantage of the program. Just be sure to document it well when it comes time to apply for loan forgiveness.

There is no documentation needed on lost income.

 

[johnson86-1]

PPP has been just as big of a shitshow. What you don't see in the new is a lot of self-employed people taking tens of thousands of dollars while still operating the business normally. I don't take salary for my business, so I missed out, but I know realtors and others who have put an extra $20K in the pocket this year between PPP and grants just for themselves while business has been trucking along. MANY businesses I know (in tech) are making record profits right now and taking government cash.

People are whining about working people who live in borderline poverty getting a little extra cash to help during a difficult time while they see no problem with all the businesses just pocketing the cash.

Now my position is that both need to be addressed in this next round. Working people out of jobs need support. Businesses need support, but both should have boundaries and oversight. Things are mostly open in a lot of the country right now. We don't have to spray trillions of debt in cash across the economy. If the stock market loses a little ground, the country and economy will go on. It's cyclical. We'll make it back soon enough.

You mean you have an investment that nobody has to actively work for to keep going, and therefore there is no self employment income or payroll to qualify for PPP?

Or do you mean you did not realize you could qualify for PPP with self-employment income?

Or do you mean that you basically commit tax fraud and don't pay the self-employment taxes you owe, and therefore you couldn't claim PPP, in which case it would be pretty ballsy to complain about people "abusing" PPP when you basically keep an extra 7% of your income each year?

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Until the end of July. I havent missed a day of work and am still making less than people who haven't worked since March. Dont know what the answer is but that ain't it.

ETA: I'm referring to people who otherwise were making the minimum wage before.

You should have went to MSU and you wouldn’t have that problem.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

What is this stimulus you speak of?

I am with you there brother....

 

[maroonmadman]

IMPP's weekly post are all the stimulus my package needs...