OT: Kyle Guy (former NCAA Tournament MOP) making headlines.....

[NickRU714]

Kyle Guy closed out the season in the most Sacramento Kings way possible.
Kings are now tied for the record with 15 straight season of no post-season play.

This is probably the first time he's made headlines in the NBA.
All press is good press?
Just another reminder that NCAA success is not in the least indicative of NBA potential or success.




https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/05/1...for-monstrous-tomahawk-dunk-and-misses-video/

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The whole clip is a joke and why the NBA isn’t basketball.

1. kyle Guy gets a break away and no one is within 20 feet and guys aren’t even jogging getting back
2. The dunk miss
3. Pick and roll in the next possession with a blatant illegal screen that isn’t illegal in the NBa
4. Pick and roll is very poorly defended

why do people even watch this crap? How can it be seriously discussed? Seems like a notch above watching professional wrestling

a beautiful game has been completely ruined.

 

[RUBubba]

I can't stand the NBA now. 13 year old son loves it. I miss the days of a guy trying to drive the lane and Oakley or Lambier knocking the guy back about 10 feet.

 

[cm_13]

The whole clip is a joke and why the NBA isn’t basketball.

1. kyle Guy gets a break away and no one is within 20 feet and guys aren’t even jogging getting back
2. The dunk miss
3. Pick and roll in the next possession with a blatant illegal screen that isn’t illegal in the NBa
4. Pick and roll is very poorly defended

why do people even watch this crap? How can it be seriously discussed? Seems like a notch above watching professional wrestling

a beautiful game has been completely ruined.

I mean, in this clip Utah is up 23 with just over a minute left to play, not really all that surprising that they’re not sprinting back on D.

 

[GM]

The whole clip is a joke and why the NBA isn’t basketball.

1. kyle Guy gets a break away and no one is within 20 feet and guys aren’t even jogging getting back
2. The dunk miss
3. Pick and roll in the next possession with a blatant illegal screen that isn’t illegal in the NBa
4. Pick and roll is very poorly defended

why do people even watch this crap? How can it be seriously discussed? Seems like a notch above watching professional wrestling

a beautiful game has been completely ruined.

It’s one play at the end of a blowout... idk how you can watch games from the eighties when the point guard barely dribbled with their other hand and no one could shoot outside of 10 feet.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It’s one play at the end of a blowout... idk how you can watch games from the eighties when the point guard barely dribbled with their other hand and no one could shoot outside of 10 feet.

Illegal screening happens all 48 minutes.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

It’s one play at the end of a blowout... idk how you can watch games from the eighties when the point guard barely dribbled with their other hand and no one could shoot outside of 10 feet.

It IS funny to watch the guards in the 70s and notice how many of them could not effectively dribble with their off hand. I still like that game way better than today, however. Seemed like teams really wanted to win back then and weren’t best friends with the other teams. The NBA game today is like watching the annual all star game with a heavy dose of politics applied. Garbage.

 

[Rufaninga]

It IS funny to watch the guards in the 70s and notice how many of them could not effectively dribble with their off hand. I still like that game way better than today, however. Seemed like teams really wanted to win back then and weren’t best friends with the other teams. The NBA game today is like watching the annual all star game with a heavy dose of politics applied. Garbage.

They may have been better at it, if they could carry the ball and travel the same way players do today.

 

[NickRU714]

This is why the board is great.

A bunch of "college basketball fans" complaining about NBA basketball - in a thread about a kid who became famous for the most exciting 2019 NCAA tournament game.

A game that was exciting because of the incredible 3 point shooting and scoring offenses for UVA and Purdue (Carson Edwards 40+ point game).

 

[Plum Street]

I would say I didn’t like the NBA much in the 80s and I don’t like it now. I felt 90s basketball with Jordan , Ewing , Miller and those houston teams made for some great postseason series. Haven’t watched much since .
A few years ago I put a small wager on the golden state-cleveland series . Thinking having a little coin on the line would force me to watch . I still couldn’t watch

 

[PiscatawayMike]

I accept the NBA for what it is. Are there things I don't like about it? Sure. However, the things I don't care for do not prevent me from watching it.

 

[Anon1751594821]

I accept the NBA for what it is. Are there things I don't like about it? Sure. However, the things I don't care for do not prevent me from watching it.

I agree totally. I am still a Big NBA fan and a Knicks fan. I just can't believe how many HATERS there are of the NBA. My biggest complaint is all of the "resting" or "load management".

Are there probably way too many 3 pointers taken in most games, probably yes. But, as a whole the players, including big men, have gotten too good in shooting 3 pointers and the fact that they are worth the 3 points, makes it worth their while to take that many. Just like Nate Oats, the coach at Alabama, kills his players if they take a shot just inside the 3 point line. Him being an ex-math teacher, it drives him crazy.

The NBA players are still the greatest athletes in the world and the playoffs are like a chess match where teams have to make adjustments game to game.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Mr_Twister]

I didn’t even know Sacramento had a team. I guess I stopped following anything in Sacramento after ex-Rutgers Tom Abatemarco stepped down at Sacramento State.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=423240

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No doubt the players are enormously skilled and talented. In regards to shooting they have become too good.

I think the biggest issue with basketball is awarding 3 points for a longer shot. In the beginning it added excitement and allowed niche players to have value. Now that everyone is so good we are at the point of no return.

The NBA is eventually going to be forced to make some changes.

capping 3 point attempts?
Eliminating the line for the 1st and 3rd quarters?
2.5 pointers?

I think moving the line back further makes the game in to a clown show.

 

[NickRU714]

No doubt the players are enormously skilled and talented. In regards to shooting they have become too good.

I think the biggest issue with basketball is awarding 3 points for a longer shot. In the beginning it added excitement and allowed niche players to have value. Now that everyone is so good we are at the point of no return.

The NBA is eventually going to be forced to make some changes.

capping 3 point attempts?
Eliminating the line for the 1st and 3rd quarters?
2.5 pointers?

I think moving the line back further makes the game in to a clown show.

Everyone of those suggestions is a much bigger clown show.

Need to make the court wider.
Players are bigger and faster than ever.
Look at RHJ. He is a 6'6" PF here.
In the NBA he projects as SG or a small SF.
Honestly, 6'6" is good PG size in the NBA now.

At least make the 3pt line a full arc.
Problem is that then you get into redesigning arenas and reconfiguring seats.

 

[NickRU714]

I'm still not even sure what the criticism of the NBA and 3pt shooting is attempting to accomplish.

Is it that you want to see more missed shots?
Less shots?
More layups?
Less points being scored?

If everyone took 1 step in and hit 40% on 19 foot shots then everyone is happy all of a sudden?

If you get rid of the 3pt line, the game isn't going to be 75 posts ups every game.
Players will still shoot from deeper because it's easier - there is still more space and the players are incredibly talented now and can hit the shots.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Everyone of those suggestions is a much bigger clown show.

Need to make the court wider.
Players are bigger and faster than ever.
Look at RHJ. He is a 6'6" PF here.
In the NBA he projects as SG or a small SF.
Honestly, 6'6" is good PG size in the NBA now.

At least make the 3pt line a full arc.
Problem is that then you get into redesigning arenas and reconfiguring seats.

Agree

Court wider as well as lane wider.
Full arc from 3 - no cheapies from the sides

Note that wingspan is becoming a very important metric in combination with physical height. A guy at 6'6" can play both the 3 and 4 - potentially even in the NBA depending on span.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Making a 3 pointer worth 2.5 would fix everything. The math of taking 3 pointers would change.

off of base 50% from 2 you would now need to make 40% from 3 as opposed to 33.3%. Significant difference.

increase shot clock to 30 and make 3s worth 2.5 you would then see 3 pointers taken early in the shot clock only be a good shot for elite shooters.

and please enforce the rules on screening. When the screener can take out a player why not run iso pick and roll every possession.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I'm still not even sure what the criticism of the NBA and 3pt shooting is attempting to accomplish.

Is it that you want to see more missed shots?
Less shots?
More layups?
Less points being scored?

If everyone took 1 step in and hit 40% on 19 foot shots then everyone is happy all of a sudden?

If you get rid of the 3pt line, the game isn't going to be 75 posts ups every game.
Players will still shoot from deeper because it's easier - there is still more space and the players are incredibly talented now and can hit the shots.

The 3 point line is for fans. The game wasn’t invented to give incentive to get a lower percentage shot. I don’t think fans want to see teams take sacks on 3rd and 20 and watch FG kickers bombing 65 yard FGs for extra points

my game has no 3s, but I realize I am in the minority here.

I think the purpose is to reduce 3 point attempts. I can’t think most fans want to see 60 3 pointers taken per game. I think we also want to see more ball movement. Every possession is either a ridiculous 3 pointer (that goes in) or 2 players doing a pick and roll.

unfortunately college is looking more like the NBA game every year. It is a shame.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Players are bigger and faster than ever.
Look at RHJ. He is a 6'6" PF here.
In the NBA he projects as SG or a small SF.
Honestly, 6'6" is good PG size in the NBA now.

At least make the 3pt line a full arc.
Problem is that then you get into redesigning arenas and reconfiguring seats.

RHJ needs to grow 4 inches to play in the NBA

 

[BillyC80]

Making a 3 pointer worth 2.5 would fix everything. The math of taking 3 pointers would change.

off of base 50% from 2 you would now need to make 40% from 3 as opposed to 33.3%. Significant difference.

increase shot clock to 30 and make 3s worth 2.5 you would then see 3 pointers taken early in the shot clock only be a good shot for elite shooters.

and please enforce the rules on screening. When the screener can take out a player why not run iso pick and roll every possession.

You could also leave the 3-pointer as is, and make any other shot outside the paint worth 2.5. This will encourage more mid-range shots and might enhance ball movement as well.

 

[NightKnight]

I would just draw the true arc out from 23'9" to 25", which would eliminate the shorter corner 3. The league is not going to tear out seats or change the 94' x 50' floor. I think the travesty is to see players pass out to the open 3 on a fast break. Eliminating the short corners would discourage that strategy and also reduce the amount of space needed to defend the 3 in the half court. I'd also only award 2 shots on a foul on a missed 3.
To me the best best pro basketball is the Larry Bird and Magic Johnson era with teams that run plays and display athleticism. Even so, I'd rather watch San Diego St play Fresno than watch Utah play Phoenix.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The games actually start this weekend, once we get through the 2 "play-in games each of the next 2 nights.

I enjoy watching the NBA, it moves very fast but the college games and coaches steal so much material from the NBA, it's not even funny. It's just 24 seconds vs 30 seconds on the shot clock, but the teams who make the extra pass and hit their teammates, should be rewarded with a 3 point attempt. If a team chooses to attack the defense, take your 2 to 3 dribbles towards the paint, drive and kick or make a play.

The college game just looks more rewarding because you get flashes of brilliance out of kids, vs the NBA mastering their skills.

And those who complain about the lack of defense.....completely understood, but most of the coaches understand this is a business and not every game is life or death....now in the playoffs, you will see the defense ramped up and shooting percentages will start to fall.

Or I can change the channel and find MLB and I like baseball too...but the "shift", the "opener replacing the starting pitcher", the players hitting the Injured list with a strained calf or hammy....the need aspect of "batting average against a pitcher on the 3rd time through the order".....it's a little too robotic in baseball now.....give me the NBA, College Football, College Hoops and the NFL and I'm good to go....!!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I know pitching has gotten ridiculously good so it may not be as easy as it used to, but I wonder when we will start to see players add bunting to their arsenal.

The shifting is a good parallel to NBA and it's changes. The Moneyball aspect probably has gone too far in baseball.

MLB has started to make changes to the game to make it more fan friendly. I suspect the NBA is not too far behind.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_poss.html

Interesting to look at numbers over the years and to be able to sort looking at tempo or points per 100 possessions or 3pt FG%. The interesting thing is points per possession was essentially constant for many years and has recently just ramped up.

Also fastest tempo season are all non 3 point line years. Could be different era or could be best offense coming in transition.

Also 9 consecutive years of breaking record for most 3PA per possession. 34.7 attempts per 100 possessions is ridiculous

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/game-averages.html

not per 100 possessions, but college has been pretty constant across all stats

 

[Letitrip]

It’s one play at the end of a blowout... idk how you can watch games from the eighties when the point guard barely dribbled with their other hand and no one could shoot outside of 10 feet.

Not a big NBA fan but this post shows total ignorance of 80's Bball.

 

[Mikemarc]

The whole clip is a joke and why the NBA isn’t basketball.

1. kyle Guy gets a break away and no one is within 20 feet and guys aren’t even jogging getting back
2. The dunk miss
3. Pick and roll in the next possession with a blatant illegal screen that isn’t illegal in the NBa
4. Pick and roll is very poorly defended

why do people even watch this crap? How can it be seriously discussed? Seems like a notch above watching professional wrestling

a beautiful game has been completely ruined.

the NBA is not a game..it’s a show

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

the NBA is not a game..it’s a show

Maybe that is why I don’t care for it. Doesn’t resemble the game I love.

 

[Russ Wood]

The whole clip is a joke and why the NBA isn’t basketball.

1. kyle Guy gets a break away and no one is within 20 feet and guys aren’t even jogging getting back
2. The dunk miss
3. Pick and roll in the next possession with a blatant illegal screen that isn’t illegal in the NBa
4. Pick and roll is very poorly defended

why do people even watch this crap? How can it be seriously discussed? Seems like a notch above watching professional wrestling

a beautiful game has been completely ruined.

Pretty typical of NBA games when there are less than 70 seconds to play and one team has a 20+ lead

 

[RUInsanityToo]

the NBA is not a game..it’s a show

Another hot take from our sports media expert. Care to explain this one (assuming you even watch any NBA games)?

PS - the migration of approach towards the 3 point shot is about analytics and increasing a team's chance of scoring more points on the offensive side of the ball - does not make it any less of a game.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

The whole clip is a joke and why the NBA isn’t basketball.

1. kyle Guy gets a break away and no one is within 20 feet and guys aren’t even jogging getting back
2. The dunk miss
3. Pick and roll in the next possession with a blatant illegal screen that isn’t illegal in the NBa
4. Pick and roll is very poorly defended

why do people even watch this crap? How can it be seriously discussed? Seems like a notch above watching professional wrestling

a beautiful game has been completely ruined.

It’s called garbage time for a reason.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Maybe that is why I don’t care for it. Doesn’t resemble the game I love.

For someone who claims not to watch the NBA, you sure have a lot of analysis on it. All I read in your posts on the NBA is "get off my lawn". Rules change and the way the game is played changes in every sport, especially as athletes get bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled.

What is the game you love?

Maybe go back to a 6 foot lane - pre Mickan or a 12 foot lane (pre-Wilt) - maybe the game needs to have height requirements?
Is it the almost non-existence of jump balls in the college game?
Perhaps go back to no shot clock days?
Bring back hand-checking?
Maybe re-institute force outs?

Some rules have changed, but the game is not drastically different. The argument you are attempting to make is really no different than those that spurn present day automation and long to return to the days of 1950's manufacturing.

 

[Mikemarc]

Another hot take from our sports media expert. Care to explain this one (assuming you even watch any NBA games)?

PS - the migration of approach towards the 3 point shot is about analytics and increasing a team's chance of scoring more points on the offensive side of the ball - does not make it any less of a game.

nba players are more entertainers than athletes, imo. There is a lot less strategy then decades ago. The storylines throughout the season are more off the court than on the court.

Most big time NBA fans I know root for a player more than a team.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The game is drastically different. Players are definitely longer, stronger and faster and more skilled. They have also mastered the 3 point shot.

Every fan is different. I recognize that although I don't like the 3 point shot almost everyone else does and it is here to stay. I'll bet more and more fans have become turned off by the amount of 3 point attempts.

I don't see a viable solution to minimize 3 point attempts other than reduce the value of the shot or to place a limit on the attempts (I don't like).

The 1950's manufacturing argument is interesting and very applicable. I believe the US like the NBA will ultimately need to adapt. NBA needs a rule fix. Ultimately the US will need to figure out a solution of what to do with the 2021+ economy that needs X amount of people to run, yet has a much higher number that need jobs.

Ultimately TV ratings will force a NBA rule change and the political process will force the US hands.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

For someone who claims not to watch the NBA, you sure have a lot of analysis on it. All I read in your posts on the NBA is "get off my lawn". Rules change and the way the game is played changes in every sport, especially as athletes get bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled.

What is the game you love?

You asked. Just me. I know I am in the minority...

45 second shot clock is reasonable
No 3 point shot
Proper enforcement of traveling rules (this was also an issue when I watched the NBA, Patrick Ewing)
Proper enforcement of screening violation.

The way both games are right now you pay a price of stopping a pick and roll OR helping a penetrator. I think that changes if a perimeter shot counts as 2 and not 3. I think you would see more ball movement and less isolation. Watch games from the 1980-1995, there is so much more flow.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I mean, in this clip Utah is up 23 with just over a minute left to play, not really all that surprising that they’re not sprinting back on D.

stop it....that doesnt help my argument

 

[NickRU714]

You asked. Just me. I know I am in the minority...

45 second shot clock is reasonable
No 3 point shot
Proper enforcement of traveling rules (this was also an issue when I watched the NBA, Patrick Ewing)
Proper enforcement of screening violation.

The way both games are right now you pay a price of stopping a pick and roll OR helping a penetrator. I think that changes if a perimeter shot counts as 2 and not 3. I think you would see more ball movement and less isolation. Watch games from the 1980-1995, there is so much more flow.

There would be less flow.

If a perimeter shot counts as 2 and not 3 then there is no incentive for offensice players to stay out there.

You would see offensive players sag in and then the defense sags in.
Lane is completely clogged and the help defense is still there. You can double team because you can recover easier since players are closer in.

If you are trying to shrink the court and make players shoot closer to the hoop - where is the space coming from?

 

[NickRU714]

45 second shot clock?
You're all over the place.

That woul completely ruin any type of flow.
Plus you are penalizing the defense by making them be on defense longer.

A shorter shot clock speeds up game not a longer clock.
There would be so much dribbling to waste time.

Pike would could run a 40 second 3-man weave and be in heaven.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In 24 seconds how many times can you reverse the ball. How about low post touches?

To me watching high school basketball is basketball in its purest form. Ball moves in all directions. Plays are run and there is so much less dribbling. You rarely see isolation.