OT: It really is the "Devil's Playground"
- Thread starter longcreektiger
- Start date
Not sure whether to laugh or cry?
There are tons of people out there taking a huge gamble that the Bible is a joke. I guess the whole world just waited 2000+ years to get smart enough to see through the sham!? Gonna be some upset souls when they figure out how dumb they've been imho.
There are tons of people out there taking a huge gamble that the Bible is a joke. I guess the whole world just waited 2000+ years to get smart enough to see through the sham!? Gonna be some upset souls when they figure out how dumb they've been imho.
I really hate articles like this just because they're out to point a finger for a cause. If anything else, the Internet has made the world smaller. Testimony about Christianity should be easier to spread than ever. Why, then, is the Internet being perceived as the cause of religious disaffiliation?
I feel like society as a whole is much smarter and won't fall for "walk by faith not by sight"
It took the Catholic Church until 1992 that Galileo was right and the earth revolves around the sun (they had him arrested until his death)
For the longest time and really still... The majority of Christians become extremely uncomfortable when the topics of religon and science collide, however they can work together
What really gets me is that the decision to be a Christian/atheist comes down to being a evolution/creation follower for so many people... Which is kind of weird to me... I believe in the Big Bang theory/concepts of evolution, but where did that sudden impulse of energy come from... To me it's obvious that there has to be a trigger (or insane wormhole but let's not go there)
Basically I'm a Christian because A) I believe in a higher power or "creator" and B) That Jesus was real (more historical proof than Julius Caesar that he was a real figure
Long story short... If Christians continue trying to fight science instead of working with it, numbers will get uglier
It took the Catholic Church until 1992 that Galileo was right and the earth revolves around the sun (they had him arrested until his death)
For the longest time and really still... The majority of Christians become extremely uncomfortable when the topics of religon and science collide, however they can work together
What really gets me is that the decision to be a Christian/atheist comes down to being a evolution/creation follower for so many people... Which is kind of weird to me... I believe in the Big Bang theory/concepts of evolution, but where did that sudden impulse of energy come from... To me it's obvious that there has to be a trigger (or insane wormhole but let's not go there)
Basically I'm a Christian because A) I believe in a higher power or "creator" and B) That Jesus was real (more historical proof than Julius Caesar that he was a real figure
Long story short... If Christians continue trying to fight science instead of working with it, numbers will get uglier
An eternity of pain in exchange for being able to find clever ways to belittle others while on earth? I will pass. But keep fighting the fight, OFF.
Hell will be hot.
Hell will be hot.
Your fire and brimstone evangelical skills need work Christian. I fail to see where my post was clever or belittling. It was just scientific fact. Thanks for the comdemnation though. You pass judgement well. Must be in your book.
You would think a Christian would handle him self differently than you do. I guess I could call my self Spiderman my whole life. But people would expect me to climb walls and sling web. Do you consider the way you walk, or just perfect the way you talk?
This post was edited on 4/21 9:05 PM by One Fingerd Fist
Lol and shortbus response is right on cue for why Christianity and in particular the Bible Belt scares people out
Would you rather your child choose to be a Christian out of fear or well because... He/she actually wants to?
Self righteousness is this worlds most addictive drug
Would you rather your child choose to be a Christian out of fear or well because... He/she actually wants to?
Self righteousness is this worlds most addictive drug
Lol. Fire with fire and all that.
I don't choose to be a Christian because of fear. I don't suggest anyone else to either. God is good and I have felt his work in my life. I feel sorry for those who don't choose to believe for the sake of being "smarter" than the crowd.
There are consequences, whether that's cool or fun to hear or not.
If the fear of hell pushes people away from church, well... That's not the most sound logic, but whatever.
I don't choose to be a Christian because of fear. I don't suggest anyone else to either. God is good and I have felt his work in my life. I feel sorry for those who don't choose to believe for the sake of being "smarter" than the crowd.
There are consequences, whether that's cool or fun to hear or not.
If the fear of hell pushes people away from church, well... That's not the most sound logic, but whatever.
Agree with a lot of what you're saying. However, you seem to say that it's a one-way street and that believers are intolerant of science. Truth is, you see a lot of the science community shun any belief in anything that can't be proven in a lab. Both sides have factions that shun and criticize the other.
You don't choose to believe something. When you lay your head down on the pillow at night, you know what you truly believe. You just have to go with that.
SB,
Serious question here - not trying to start a flame war. I'll preface this by saying I'd consider myself agnostic. I was raised in a Christian family. I struggle with faith, and my feelings toward organized religion can best be described as ambivalent. I'm at a point in my life though where I'm old enough to be going through certain things - marriage, starting a family, starting a real career, etc., and the perspective that some of that lends, makes me feel some sort of presence of a higher power of some kind. All that aside, I think my issue (and the issue many people have) is this. What of the Sikh or muslim or buddhist man who lives a model life - works hard, raises a great family, lives virtuously, gives to charity, is an all around model citizen? What happens to him? Does God condemn someone like that for being born where he was born and consequently being raised to believe a certain thing?
Serious question here - not trying to start a flame war. I'll preface this by saying I'd consider myself agnostic. I was raised in a Christian family. I struggle with faith, and my feelings toward organized religion can best be described as ambivalent. I'm at a point in my life though where I'm old enough to be going through certain things - marriage, starting a family, starting a real career, etc., and the perspective that some of that lends, makes me feel some sort of presence of a higher power of some kind. All that aside, I think my issue (and the issue many people have) is this. What of the Sikh or muslim or buddhist man who lives a model life - works hard, raises a great family, lives virtuously, gives to charity, is an all around model citizen? What happens to him? Does God condemn someone like that for being born where he was born and consequently being raised to believe a certain thing?
Just had this convo with some fellow TI members last week, one of whom is Sihk. We are pretty close, so no feelings were spared and the convo went for a while. I personally find it arrogant to assume that God would forsake those who believe in Him because they do not believe in Jesus. But I know it's not my judgement to make.
Some felt, that literally, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life as this the only way into heaven.
Im not sure. I believe in Jesus and the resurrection. I have faith that what I believe is the ultimate truth. But I have no clue what happens to those others. One thing I have always wondered is will all the questions I have be answered on judgement day? Will I be enlightened on all of this?
Julius Ceaser is a myth. Everybody knows that.
Shortbus, your answer is "I dont know" yet you confidently condemned to hell. Im befuddled.
This post was edited on 4/21 9:58 PM by One Fingerd Fist
Shortbus, your answer is "I dont know" yet you confidently condemned to hell. Im befuddled.
This post was edited on 4/21 9:58 PM by One Fingerd Fist
So this article initially correctly states, "correlation is not causation" but then effectively goes on to conclude correlation is causation just because they ran log regressions!? They must be kidding! Not sound research.
Perhaps drawing a comparison to another scenario would help: In the summer, more ice cream is sold and drownings increase. Thus, one "could" conclude that ice cream causes drownings as there is some correlation there. Well, in the summer it gets warmer, people want to cool off so they eat ice cream and go swimming (there's some correlation between drowning and warmer temps as well).--but the heat doesn't necessarily cause drowning either (it could simply be that those that drown can't swim or perhaps alcohol is involved, etc.).
Making definitive conclusions through correlations analysis is dangerous in statistics. There are always other factors. For instance, the article states that there is only 20-percent correlation between he Internet and disaffiliation rates. I'd wager that there'd be about 20-percent correlation between drowning and ice cream as well, which can be soundly dismissed.
Some possible other factors include: the expansive tendency of cable news outlets, discouraged viewers seeing more travesties live and on repeat. Social media (as an aside from the Internet) causing a social disconnect.
Either way, the Internet isn't going back into any box and can be a tremendous medium of great discouragement or encouragement.
Perhaps drawing a comparison to another scenario would help: In the summer, more ice cream is sold and drownings increase. Thus, one "could" conclude that ice cream causes drownings as there is some correlation there. Well, in the summer it gets warmer, people want to cool off so they eat ice cream and go swimming (there's some correlation between drowning and warmer temps as well).--but the heat doesn't necessarily cause drowning either (it could simply be that those that drown can't swim or perhaps alcohol is involved, etc.).
Making definitive conclusions through correlations analysis is dangerous in statistics. There are always other factors. For instance, the article states that there is only 20-percent correlation between he Internet and disaffiliation rates. I'd wager that there'd be about 20-percent correlation between drowning and ice cream as well, which can be soundly dismissed.
Some possible other factors include: the expansive tendency of cable news outlets, discouraged viewers seeing more travesties live and on repeat. Social media (as an aside from the Internet) causing a social disconnect.
Either way, the Internet isn't going back into any box and can be a tremendous medium of great discouragement or encouragement.
I never condemned anyone to hell. I just stated a clear fact. Hell (lake of fire) is hot.
For someone who is clearly smarter than the rest of us, surely you can understand that a lake of fire would be hot. It's totally your choice whether you find that out for sure or not.
blind faith in christianity, islam, judaism, buddhism, etc. all have one common theme: fear
and Bionic tiger: that to me is the biggest tragedy, that someone is scared to even BEGIN asking questions that may eventually lead them closer to truth in this crazy world whether that person is christian, islam, whatever
and Bionic tiger: that to me is the biggest tragedy, that someone is scared to even BEGIN asking questions that may eventually lead them closer to truth in this crazy world whether that person is christian, islam, whatever
The better question is: If there is only One true God, and He is God alone and there is no other...as the Bible claims, then why should he welcome ANY of us into HIS kingdom? For we all have fallen short of His glory.
So, yes God can do as he pleases and save those He chooses and allow those to perish at His discretion.
Don't think about what God should or would do, as a man. But rather as the One and Only true God, who answers to no one. The fact that He sent His Son to save some, and not let all perish is out of His kindness and mercy alone.
What everyone needs to remember when they decide to have these "well thought out debates" is, if the Christian is wrong, what does he lose? But what if the non-Christian is wrong.....?
Read a Bible, and pray to the Lord that He would in His mercy, open your heart. Even the thief on the cross beside Jesus was welcomed into His kingdom, through no good works, tithing, baptism, or any other effort of his own. He simply asked to be remembered.
Luke 23:41-42
"And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 43And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
So, yes God can do as he pleases and save those He chooses and allow those to perish at His discretion.
Don't think about what God should or would do, as a man. But rather as the One and Only true God, who answers to no one. The fact that He sent His Son to save some, and not let all perish is out of His kindness and mercy alone.
What everyone needs to remember when they decide to have these "well thought out debates" is, if the Christian is wrong, what does he lose? But what if the non-Christian is wrong.....?
Read a Bible, and pray to the Lord that He would in His mercy, open your heart. Even the thief on the cross beside Jesus was welcomed into His kingdom, through no good works, tithing, baptism, or any other effort of his own. He simply asked to be remembered.
Luke 23:41-42
"And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 43And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
Well damn. Tigerrecon won the debate with a plea of insanity. Just when we were getting somewhere...
"if the Christian is wrong, what does he lose? But what if the non-Christian is wrong.....?"
wow... ok so you just admitted in an indirect way yourself that you are a christian "just in case"
done with this topic... lets delete all these threads and fast forward to football season
wow... ok so you just admitted in an indirect way yourself that you are a christian "just in case"
done with this topic... lets delete all these threads and fast forward to football season
Its like a Geico commercial.
I buy my Jesus from Flo.
This post was edited on 4/21 10:23 PM by One Fingerd Fist
I buy my Jesus from Flo.
This post was edited on 4/21 10:23 PM by One Fingerd Fist
I disagree with your take away from his post. That logic is not new and not original. It's a valid question, especially for those who claim "logic" is their strong suit and why they can't believe in the bible. He never said that's the only reason he believes, just that its a reasonable question for the logically blessed to then choose not to believe. It's a big risk.
But I agree with one thing. Let's get to football season.
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.[/QUOTE]plagiarized from wiki... my apologies... but to me this is why I believe... of all the religions out there and people begging for God to come down and show himself and prove that its not some fairy tale... there are sources both christian and non christian from that time period stating that Jesus was real
hopefully its refreshing to some of you guys that I try to put thought into my faith and not come across as all knowing, because well... I don't have all the answers and I'm still searching daily
hopefully its refreshing to some of you guys that I try to put thought into my faith and not come across as all knowing, because well... I don't have all the answers and I'm still searching daily
Are you trying to be clever and belittling now?
And I just saw your multiple edits from above. Guess its hard to type correctly with only one finger. Lol Allow me to answer...
i am a sinner. I am not perfect. My mouth gets away from me at times. But The bible never says I have to be perfect. I only have to ask for forgiveness and strive to be better. And yes, I do that every day. People like you make that tough at times. You challenge and make light of things I hold dear. But I continue to try to quiet my sharp tongue and be a witness to what I believe to be true.
God is real. Jesus was his son, sent from heaven to save us from ourselves. I did not know him, but through him, I will have everlasting life in the kingdom of heaven. I wish that for everyone, but unlike in kids' sports today, I don't believe everyone will get a trophy.
Do I try to walk like Jesus? Yes. Do I fail miserably at times? Absolutely. I don't mean this as a lecture for you or anyone else. Just what I believe to be True.
This post was edited on 4/21 10:36 PM by shortbus22
A few days ago, you mentioned that you're not an atheist. Since you are one of about four individuals here on TI who appear to have a chip on their shoulder while making a career out of belittling those who believe differently than you, I think its fair to ask you to identify your deity.
Why is it that the same individuals pop up in every one of these threads to mock and try to convince others that Christianity is a "fairy tale" and wrong? We know that you don't believe in God, you like to poke fun of Jesus and you like to try to degrade those that do. Why do you act like this? Is your life so empty that you need to jump in every religious thread on TigerIllustrated (and elsewhere on the internet) to put Christians down to try and make yourself feel more secure about your decision? We know how you feel, and we respect that (although we completely disagree with it). You don't see us making fun of and attacking your atheist beliefs. Is a little respect too much to ask?
As for the "debate," I know that God is real and is alive. I know that there is only one true God who created everything as it is written in the Bible. I know that He sent his son, Jesus Christ, both fully man and fully God, to die on the cross for our sins and to defeat sin and death so that we can be justified to God. I know that He loves us more than anyone ever could, and I know that He wants more for our lives than we could ever imagine. I know this because He (the Holy Spirit) lives within me, and I have a living relationship with Him. I know that Jesus is coming back one day for His people and to make everything right once and for all. I know that one day we all will face judgment. And I know that, although I am a sinner and far from perfect, I will enter His kingdom and spend eternity in Heaven because He is my Lord and Savior. I wish this for everyone, because I know the fulfillment and joy it brings to your life. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. But I know not everyone will receive Christ and be saved, and that's a sad reality that we face.
As for the "debate," I know that God is real and is alive. I know that there is only one true God who created everything as it is written in the Bible. I know that He sent his son, Jesus Christ, both fully man and fully God, to die on the cross for our sins and to defeat sin and death so that we can be justified to God. I know that He loves us more than anyone ever could, and I know that He wants more for our lives than we could ever imagine. I know this because He (the Holy Spirit) lives within me, and I have a living relationship with Him. I know that Jesus is coming back one day for His people and to make everything right once and for all. I know that one day we all will face judgment. And I know that, although I am a sinner and far from perfect, I will enter His kingdom and spend eternity in Heaven because He is my Lord and Savior. I wish this for everyone, because I know the fulfillment and joy it brings to your life. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. But I know not everyone will receive Christ and be saved, and that's a sad reality that we face.
Always one of my favorite arguments. Jesus, walking through Galilee performing elaborate hoaxes for his followers. And those disciples? They would have had to be in on the act (because there's no way Jesus would've been able to pull of these elaborate tricks without them). That's some incredible dedication not exposing any of these "tricks." Being boiled in oil, crucified upside down, beheaded, all to protect the secrets of a 2000 year old David Copperfield.
You better come stronger that that weak stuff up in here.
I think people who mix religion or politics with football message boards need to get laid or get a life.
Magic? Wow! I hope one day you will find time to read a little about it. I read some authors who are far smarter than you or I, and it helped me tremendously.
God offers salvation through grace, that is His son Jesus Christ. That is it! No one has any more right to this than anyone else. It is free to everyone, including atheists, agnostics, muslims, hindus, and whatever you espouse to be. It is beautiful and merciful, based on his love for ALL of us. You can choose to accept it or to deny it. He gives us that free will. And while, yes, I would be leery to deny an omnipotent, omniscient being, it is more the incredible sacrificial love, not fear, that draws me to Him. Without the sacrifice of his only son, Jesus, who was holy and pure, we imperfect human beings could never be assimilated with God in heaven. It's like 4th dimension physics if you require scientific analogies. All He asks of us is to accept it as the truth (i.e. faith). He loves us so much that he allowed His son to be sacrificed in a most inhumane fashion in order to make right all the wrongs that we did and continue to do. If you don't like Christians, perhaps you have more patience for Jews? That sort of sacrifice and the absolute requirement of it by God is written throughout the Old Testament. Yet humanity was so sinful that He had to make the ultimate sacrifice, his only son, to make it right -- to save us from perishing, really both on this earth and beyond it. Imagine for a minute sacrificing your only child, so some jackass guy that you don't like could have a chance at a better life. Would you do it? Not a chance. So God does this to his only son who was without sin, perfect even, for a bunch of people, including you and me, who deserve nothing -- no grace, no mercy -- nothing! For me, all I can say is thank you, because the thought of refusing to acknowledge it -- or worse, throwing it back in His face with disdain -- makes me cringe.
And just an fyi, as a medical doctor, I do value and appreciate science at least as much as you do.
It's become a Perry Noble flea market outlet.
So much for politics and religion being moved to the Round Table. ****'s ridiculous at this point.
I use to read TI every 30 min. Now, it's every 3 days.