OT Home A/C problems

[otismotis08]

So this weekend my home A/C unit stopped working. Everything inside was trying to function, but the outside compressor and fan were shut down. I noticed that the breaker in my basement fuse panel had tripped. Flipped it back on and it tripped again immediately.

I pulled the service disconnect and took off the panel at the compressor unit. Noticed that some rodent had probably entered because there was a bunch of shredded paper and junk in there. Cleaned it out and tried to get it running again but it again tripped the breaker. Next I replaced the capacitor (I did this several years ago myself and it worked fine) but that did nothing. Checked the contactor, cleaned up the contacts, and it seems fine.

At first, I was able to flip the breaker and at least maintain voltage to the unit. The contactor appeared to be working, I had full voltage to it, etc. but now I can't get the breaker to stay on at all.

I looked for chewed wires or other obvious damage but did not see any. Have not yet tried taking the lid and fan off to check out the compressor. Looking down at the compressor, it appears that the plug-in cover is intact so I doubt there's damage to the wires or connections there. I fear that the compressor has shorted out.

Other thoughts/suggestions?

 

[HUSKERFAN66]

So this weekend my home A/C unit stopped working. Everything inside was trying to function, but the outside compressor and fan were shut down. I noticed that the breaker in my basement fuse panel had tripped. Flipped it back on and it tripped again immediately.

I pulled the service disconnect and took off the panel at the compressor unit. Noticed that some rodent had probably entered because there was a bunch of shredded paper and junk in there. Cleaned it out and tried to get it running again but it again tripped the breaker. Next I replaced the capacitor (I did this several years ago myself and it worked fine) but that did nothing. Checked the contactor, cleaned up the contacts, and it seems fine.

At first, I was able to flip the breaker and at least maintain voltage to the unit. The contactor appeared to be working, I had full voltage to it, etc. but now I can't get the breaker to stay on at all.

I looked for chewed wires or other obvious damage but did not see any. Have not yet tried taking the lid and fan off to check out the compressor. Looking down at the compressor, it appears that the plug-in cover is intact so I doubt there's damage to the wires or connections there. I fear that the compressor has shorted out.

Other thoughts/suggestions?

Could be. Can you tell if the fan moves at all? If you don't have someone to help you, put a mark with a crayon or a marker to see if fan turns. Could be stuck bearing or rotor stater short

 

[dinglefritz]

So this weekend my home A/C unit stopped working. Everything inside was trying to function, but the outside compressor and fan were shut down. I noticed that the breaker in my basement fuse panel had tripped. Flipped it back on and it tripped again immediately.

I pulled the service disconnect and took off the panel at the compressor unit. Noticed that some rodent had probably entered because there was a bunch of shredded paper and junk in there. Cleaned it out and tried to get it running again but it again tripped the breaker. Next I replaced the capacitor (I did this several years ago myself and it worked fine) but that did nothing. Checked the contactor, cleaned up the contacts, and it seems fine.

At first, I was able to flip the breaker and at least maintain voltage to the unit. The contactor appeared to be working, I had full voltage to it, etc. but now I can't get the breaker to stay on at all.

I looked for chewed wires or other obvious damage but did not see any. Have not yet tried taking the lid and fan off to check out the compressor. Looking down at the compressor, it appears that the plug-in cover is intact so I doubt there's damage to the wires or connections there. I fear that the compressor has shorted out.

Other thoughts/suggestions?

Well from my limited AC knowledge bank, if your breaker keeps tripping it can bea bad breaker BUT it can also be that your compressor is shot causing it too trip. One of my 3 units is doing that but it's for a lower level so I haven't messed with fixing it yet. My EE son says that once a breaker for an AC has been tripped a several times it gets weaker and may have to be replaced. Mouse piss though absolutely destroys electronics of any kind so I'm betting you're probably going to need a compressor.

 

[otismotis08]

Could be. Can you tell if the fan moves at all? If you don't have someone to help you, put a mark with a crayon or a marker to see if fan turns. Could be stuck bearing or rotor stater short

The fan spins freely by hand.

 

[otismotis08]

Well from my limited AC knowledge bank, if your breaker keeps tripping it can bea bad breaker BUT it can also be that your compressor is shot causing it too trip. One of my 3 units is doing that but it's for a lower level so I haven't messed with fixing it yet. My EE son says that once a breaker for an AC has been tripped a several times it gets weaker and may have to be replaced. Mouse piss though absolutely destroys electronics of any kind so I'm betting you're probably going to need a compressor.

Ugh. That's what I'm afraid of. The unit is about 20 years old so they'll probably need to replace the entire outdoor unit which can't be cheap.

There was a whole bunch of crud built up in the contactor but I cleaned it up and tested for continuity so it seems OK. And since I already tried the capacitor, it seems the next culprit is likely the compressor.

 

[TripleOption67]

Being in the HVAC business if your breaker trips immediately, you have a dead short. Meaning something is shorted to ground or to another leg. Possibly wires shorted together or like was said the compressor is shorted internally.

Depending on the age of the unit, might be cheaper in the long run to replace unit rather than replace compressor.

Best case it's wiring than can be repaired. Good luck.

 

[BigRedRising_rivals337083]

Do you own the home?

 

[JohnRossEwing]

Did you swear at it? Not the breaker, but the actual AC unit? And, did you sort of talk under your breath without looking at your wife or family but did you also make it clear that you were pretty sure one of them broke it?

If that doesn't work, have you tried asking "who used this AC last?" and then asking them to retrace their steps?

 

[otismotis08]

Do you own the home?

Yes. If it's a wiring problem somewhere within the unit, I cannot see it from in the contactor/capacitor compartment. Haven't yet tried to remove the fan and reach down to the compressor, but I don't see any obvious issues down there. It really seemed like a rodent had gotten into the compartment and messed something up.

 

[dinglefritz]

Ugh. That's what I'm afraid of. The unit is about 20 years old so they'll probably need to replace the entire outdoor unit which can't be cheap.

There was a whole bunch of crud built up in the contactor but I cleaned it up and tested for continuity so it seems OK. And since I already tried the capacitor, it seems the next culprit is likely the compressor.

You could try replacing the breaker if that's in your wheelhouse. You might be able to swap the AC breaker with the stove's breaker if you have an electric range and the breaker is the same size. Of course maybe that could fry another breaker. I would be surprised if you can't find a replacement compressor for your unit if its' a name brand. I've had an HVAC guy give me that line to try to sell a new unit. Once he figured out that wasn't going to work he came up with the part.

If the rest of the unit is in good shape, my experience is that older units lasted a lot longer than the new ones although they weren't as efficient. You might save a fair amount of electricity with a new unit. What ever you do, make sure if you replace it to size it appropriately. Too small won't work well and too large of one is too costly.

 

[dinglefritz]

Yes. If it's a wiring problem somewhere within the unit, I cannot see it from in the contactor/capacitor compartment. Haven't yet tried to remove the fan and reach down to the compressor, but I don't see any obvious issues down there. It really seemed like a rodent had gotten into the compartment and messed something up.

One test I guess we ran our unit when junior was home was to make sure the thermostat is turned up when you try to re-engage the breaker. IF you can re-engage the breaker without the thermostat calling for AC then it's probably not you're breaker.

 

[otismotis08]

One test I guess we ran our unit when junior was home was to make sure the thermostat is turned up when you try to re-engage the breaker. IF you can re-engage the breaker without the thermostat calling for AC then it's probably not you're breaker.

Thanks. I've had the thermostat turned off while dealing with this issue, and the breaker still keeps tripping. The only way I can reset the breaker without it immediately tripping is if I first pull out the service disconnect. As soon as I re-insert the service disconnect, I hear the breaker pop again.

 

[dinglefritz]

Thanks. I've had the thermostat turned off while dealing with this issue, and the breaker still keeps tripping. The only way I can reset the breaker without it immediately tripping is if I first pull out the service disconnect. As soon as I re-insert the service disconnect, I hear the breaker pop again.

As the other poster stated, on a 20 year old unit, you might be best off just replacing it with a more efficient one. You're living on borrowed time.

 

[Huskers=Best]

From an electrical engineering standpoint when the thermal-magnetic circuit breaker trips in the instantaneous portion of the trip curve, it is tripping the magnetic portion of the circuit breaker. That means there is a fault line-to-line, line-to-ground, or within the equipment. Either the wiring is the issue or it is something with the equipment. That’s all the clarity I can provide unfortunately.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan_rivals19671]

I have a 30 y/o unit that works fine and doesn't leak and I almost wish it would break so I could both of us out of our misery.

 

[BigRedRising_rivals337083]

Obviously not the answer you want, but If you live where you need your AC, it's totally worth just having a good company come out and look at it. Most places aren't slammed yet. If the unit is old, are you opposed to replacing it? I bit the bullet a few years ago and it's been totally worth it.

 

[otismotis08]

Obviously not the answer you want, but If you live where you need your AC, it's totally worth just having a good company come out and look at it. Most places aren't slammed yet. If the unit is old, are you opposed to replacing it? I bit the bullet a few years ago and it's been totally worth it.

I try to fix everything first...before calling out someone. Several years ago I was able to fix it with a new capacitor, cost me about $15. Running out of ideas this time. Unless there's a loose or damaged wire somewhere that I haven't found yet, I'm probably needing a new compressor which might mean a whole new outdoor condenser unit. Ugh. That can't be cheap.

 

[Crazyhole]

I try to fix everything first...before calling out someone. Several years ago I was able to fix it with a new capacitor, cost me about $15. Running out of ideas this time. Unless there's a loose or damaged wire somewhere that I haven't found yet, I'm probably needing a new compressor which might mean a whole new outdoor condenser unit. Ugh. That can't be cheap.

Does the breaker trip if the thermostat isn't calling for the AC to be running? If not, it could be something as simple as the wiring between the disconnect and the unit. If it doesn't trip until you call for ac it could be a bad compressor, fan motor, internal wiring,, or just a bad breaker.. Breakers get weak over time and ive seen a lot of units that ran on undersized breakers for a long time before they failed. What brand of unit? What brand of breaker? Is it a heat pump?

 

[BigRedBugeaters]

I got a new one installed 3 years ago for $1200. Guy was a one man show. Didn’t have the huge overhead of a lot of companies

 

[WHCSC]

Did you swear at it? Not the breaker, but the actual AC unit? And, did you sort of talk under your breath without looking at your wife or family but did you also make it clear that you were pretty sure one of them broke it?

If that doesn't work, have you tried asking "who used this AC last?" and then asking them to retrace their steps?

Whatever happens, OP needs to use this as an opportunity to make sure everyone in the home knows it was caused by someone other than him messing with the thermostat

 

[JohnRossEwing]

Whatever happens, OP needs to use this as an opportunity to make sure everyone in the home knows it was caused by someone other than him messing with the thermostat

Agree. That is pretty much standard procedure in cases like this.

 

[tpmcg_rivals137159]

anyone ever bought an hvac unit online...?

 

[TripleOption67]

I would not recommend buying one online. Reason being most reputable dealers won't install them. Selling their own products help their business survive. It's their livelyhood and they count on the percentage they make off the equipment. Plus most online units will NOT have a full if any manufactures warranty. Best to buy from a trusted local dealer that's going to stand behind their product and craftsmanship.

 

[little a]

So this weekend my home A/C unit stopped working. Everything inside was trying to function, but the outside compressor and fan were shut down. I noticed that the breaker in my basement fuse panel had tripped. Flipped it back on and it tripped again immediately.

I pulled the service disconnect and took off the panel at the compressor unit. Noticed that some rodent had probably entered because there was a bunch of shredded paper and junk in there. Cleaned it out and tried to get it running again but it again tripped the breaker. Next I replaced the capacitor (I did this several years ago myself and it worked fine) but that did nothing. Checked the contactor, cleaned up the contacts, and it seems fine.

At first, I was able to flip the breaker and at least maintain voltage to the unit. The contactor appeared to be working, I had full voltage to it, etc. but now I can't get the breaker to stay on at all.

I looked for chewed wires or other obvious damage but did not see any. Have not yet tried taking the lid and fan off to check out the compressor. Looking down at the compressor, it appears that the plug-in cover is intact so I doubt there's damage to the wires or connections there. I fear that the compressor has shorted out.

Other thoughts/suggestions?

Has the unit practiced social distancing and shelter in place, worn a n95 mask? At this point it might have contracted the Wuhan virus.......

 

[otismotis08]

Well, so I called a professional. He quoted $3600 installed price for a new A/C unit (Trane XE13AC Air Conditioner and Evaporator Coil, 4 tons, up to 13 SEER, single stage, 10 year warranty). With furnace at the same time would increase to $5721.

This is from a local HVAC company in the KC area. Sound like a bargain??? Get a quote from Lowe's?

 

[Crazyhole]

Well, so I called a professional. He quoted $3600 installed price for a new A/C unit (Trane XE13AC Air Conditioner and Evaporator Coil, 4 tons, up to 13 SEER, single stage, 10 year warranty). With furnace at the same time would increase to $5721.

This is from a local HVAC company in the KC area. Sound like a bargain??? Get a quote from Lowe's?

Sounds high for a 13 seer. Did he tell you what the problem is?

 

[Tarheelhusker]

How is the reputation of that local HVAC? So very much depends on the techs installation knowledge and integrity. As regards to cost. 2 yrs. ago your quote was right @ my total.

check the local Hardware store also. The employees know local installers & might have a recommendation or Two. Got a Menards to ask, nothing wrong with Lowe’s or HD, the more knowledge the better.

Good luck...gonna be a long hot summer!

 

[TripleOption67]

I don't know what the KC market is but they're probably not out if line. Never hurts to get 2 or 3 quotes and make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

That being said, irregardless of brand, the most important thing is quality of install not price. Whoever you choose, check for references.

 

[little a]

Well, so I called a professional. He quoted $3600 installed price for a new A/C unit (Trane XE13AC Air Conditioner and Evaporator Coil, 4 tons, up to 13 SEER, single stage, 10 year warranty). With furnace at the same time would increase to $5721.

This is from a local HVAC company in the KC area. Sound like a bargain??? Get a quote from Lowe's?

that was the cost of mine as well- trane

 

[otismotis08]

Sounds high for a 13 seer. Did he tell you what the problem is?

Yub. Compressor went kaput.
Fortunately the weather is cooperating this week. Gives me a little time to shop around.

 

[tpmcg_rivals137159]

how many sf are heating and cooling?

 

[Crazyhole]

Yub. Compressor went kaput.
Fortunately the weather is cooperating this week. Gives me a little time to shop around.

If you've got a local Carrier dealer see if they would price out a Payne unit. Its the Carrier off-brand so its a little cheaper, but its the same equipment with the same warranty. Either way, Trane/American standard and Carrier are really good units. I know some people are sold on Lennox but I've never been terribly impressed in the life of their equipment. I guess Daikin is pretty good now too but haven't had enough experience with it to recommend, all I know is I dont like wiring them up, kind of a stupid design.

 

[BigRedRising_rivals337083]

Make a list, call everybody. You'd be surprised the difference from company to company. Most are brand loyal however. You could just buy the unit and do most of the work, than hire an electrician to hook it up

 

[Crazyhole]

Make a list, call everybody. You'd be surprised the difference from company to company. Most are brand loyal however. You could just buy the unit and do most of the work, than hire an electrician to hook it up

Uh, unless he had a vacuum pump and gauges, nitrogen, and knows how to braze he probably can't do much.

 

[TripleOption67]

Uh, unless he had a vacuum pump and gauges, nitrogen, and knows how to braze he probably can't do much.

And don't forget the micron gauge, refrigerant and refrigerant scale, valve core removal tool and service valve wrenches.

Oh and do it yourself and see how good your "warranty" is and someone to file the warranty claim if something should happen.

 

[Crazyhole]

And don't forget the micron gauge, refrigerant and refrigerant scale, valve core removal tool and service valve wrenches.

Oh and do it yourself and see how good your "warranty" is and someone to file the warranty claim if something should happen.

Yeah, it just isn't practical. I used to do my own r-22 units and just borrow a pump and gauges from contractors but 410a is a different beast. Can't go with the whole "beer can cold" test on the lineset anymore, lol.