They would have screamed; "Ropes tied in knots, I can't climb down those ! Call NASCAR ! "
OT: Hiroshima 75 Years Ago
- Thread starter Colbert17!
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Still waiting to see what you think what was the right thing to do.
You'll never get an answer.
It's astonishing, considering the actions of Nazi Germany, that people single out Dresden for pity and sympathy.
Germany, prior and during WWII, was undoubtedly the most despicable and ruthless nation ever to inhabit the planet. Without true justification nor provocation, they engaged in an orgy of slaughter -- attacking, bombing and murdering the inhabitants of one nation after the other. They enslaved, tortured, and massacred gypsies simply because they were gypsies ... gays simply because they were gay ... disabled individuals simply because they were handicapped ... Jews simply because they were Jewish. (This includes babies and children.)
And by and large, the German people supported Hitler. And KNEW about the concentration and labor camps (there 44,000 of them) and except for a bare minority, showed acceptance by lack of help or protest. In fact, many many Germans rejoiced at the deportation of Jews and ransacked and occupied their vacated homes.
So you can lament, mourn, whimper, shed tears for the Germans of WWII. But as far as I'm concerned, we should've firebombed every town, village and city in that godforsaken nation.
Just my two cents.
Please don't consider this as sympathy, because that's not my intent, but Nazi Germany was only 1 of four nations in what I would call the "8 Figure Club" in the 20th century. WWII Japan, Stalinist USSR and Maoist China along with Nazi Germany were all responsible for more than 10,000,000 innocent deaths. The world is better off without all of them.
Deaths by country in WWII
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/s.../research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/s.../research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war
probably the usual: "The war was already won...there was no need to do it.... the US could simply have told Japan they had a bomb or maybe exploded it in some demo...blah blah blah......"
none of which was based in any reality..... Facts were that the Japanese ARMY (not Navy) had been relatively untouched by the war up to that point - and was ready to defend to the death. Even after the first bomb, most Japanese military leaders were not sure it really was an A-Bomb and even if it was - figured the US didn't have any more (or more than 1 more --- and they were pretty close; the US only had 3 total for operations against Japan). And while it was a shame - Japan expected every single citizen over the age of 13 to fight to the death....
The US told people to leave BEFORE the bombs
Truman held-off dropping the 2nd Bomb for an extra day - and the planned 3rd bomb for over a week hoping for a response...
There was no intentional targeting of civilians for the sole purpose of creating panic, mass-murder or genocide..
no, it was not a war crime...
but, little wimp-*** morons love to say so on their iPhones, from the comfort of their easy-chairs before they head out to Taco Bell....
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There are more detailed breakdowns... by, Metaball Studios always does a good job visualizing....
Pretty much as expected except the Dutch East Indies. Wow. The Japanese were really brutal occupiers
Not me. I'm 50% Polish.
What could be rougher than being stuck between Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia ?
It had to be greater than that. Because the Nazis alone killed 3 million Polish Jews as well as 2.5 non-Jewish Poles. Add in the Russian atrocities and the number probably exceeds 6 million.
If some here want to play that What If game with Russia and WWI.. how about going the other way and go back to the Russo-Japanese war about a decade earlier than WWI?
Japan's navy, under Togo, actually pulled off a "Pearl Harbor" on a Russian naval base in China.. Port Arthur. They beat down the Russian enough to get what they wanted in the treaty that Teddy Roosevelt negotiated.. thereby giving them immediate success in their imperialistic war and encouraging further such ventures.
But.. ohh.. that was on the Tsar... not the Peoples' Russia. Then so was Russia's aiding the allies in The Great War..
Russia is and continues to be a "bad actor".. as is China. All these peace-minded socialists running around should see that socialism/communism is worse than Capitalism where peace is concerned... but they buy the BS. And as for nukes.. the USSR and China couldn't wait to get their hands on that weaponry..
Japan's navy, under Togo, actually pulled off a "Pearl Harbor" on a Russian naval base in China.. Port Arthur. They beat down the Russian enough to get what they wanted in the treaty that Teddy Roosevelt negotiated.. thereby giving them immediate success in their imperialistic war and encouraging further such ventures.
But.. ohh.. that was on the Tsar... not the Peoples' Russia. Then so was Russia's aiding the allies in The Great War..
Russia is and continues to be a "bad actor".. as is China. All these peace-minded socialists running around should see that socialism/communism is worse than Capitalism where peace is concerned... but they buy the BS. And as for nukes.. the USSR and China couldn't wait to get their hands on that weaponry..
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Port Arthur gave the Japanese ARMY dreams of glory for a Northern Strategy. But, it was Russian General Zhukov (hero of the Great War) and his leadership at Khalkhin Gol that really led Japanese leaders to prefer a Southern Strategy lead by the Navy rather than Army (and directly led to Pearl Harbor).
Interestingly, it was the tactics Zhukov learned during Khalkhin Gol that he used against the Nazi on the Eastern Front
and let's not forget that Germany was going to eradicate the Polish people within 1 generation of breeding, starvation, or forced labor. Germany planned to literally abolish the Polish culture in 1 generation. It was estimated that almost 750k children were sent off to Germany for redeployment to good German families. That number may be high but any Polish kid under a certain age with light hair and eyes were sent to Germany.
Invading Japan as an alternative I can tell you have never been in a war. Lay your *** in a jungle for a year then tell me you would not use the bomb.
you are truly ignorant to history
great post
the reason why people can debate this is because our leaders had the balls to put Americans first and do whatever it took to save American lives. Japan, by all accounts, was probably more brutal than the nazis and the invasion was not going to be one without significant sacrifice
all those who fought it, and anyone who has studied it, knows the Pacific was far worse than the US/UK war in Europe and more akin to the Eastern Front...
That is no kind of argument. The question is not whether a GI would be happy we dropped the bomb but whether it was the right thing to do.
Ever think about the thousands of families, mothers, little kids, etc., all of them completely innocent, who were vaporized in an instant? Or the ones who suffered horrible slow lingering deaths? Are their lives less valuable than an American GI's? At least the soldiers were lawful combatants.
Yeah, there was no targeting of international civilians for the sole purpose of creating panic or mass murder. We just dropped a nuclear weapon on a city of little or no actual strategic value, that was in another country, and full of innocent civilians, for sole purpose of terrifying our enemy into surrendering.
Oh wait.
If a bombing campaign is so wanton, pitiless, and indiscriminate that even WINSTON CHURCHILL thought we were being too hard on the Nazis, then maybe there's something to the criticism.
I am not ignorant. I'm laughing at somebody thinking those friggin leaflets, which every Truman apologist loves to trumpet, meant or mean a ******* thing. Most of the stupid leaflets were dropped after Hiroshima. The ones from before Hiroshima don't even mention the city or the atomic bomb. Don't be stupid.
But what you've never done is say what the right thing to do would have been.
I'm a little confused (not hard to do). If Churchill felt this way why was the first wave of the attack on Dresden conducted by RAF Bomber Command?
This feeling of being too hard on the Nazis wasn't expressed until after the Dresden raid.
Somehow after the London Blitz I can't imagine Churchill would ever say or think that we were being "too hard" on the Germans.
All of those thousands of innocents would have been part of the millions who would have died if there was an invasion of the home islands.
Good question. Is there a link where a comment like that was attributed to Churchill? It goes against almost anything else he said or did.
I beat you I'm 100% Polish.
Reminds me of an old joke during the Cold War. A Polish soldier is standing on duty and a man comes up to him and asks "If you looked to one side and you saw a German soldier coming at you and you looked to the other and you saw a Russian doing the same, who would you shoot first"? Without hesitation the Pole said "While the German of course." When asked why he responded "Business before pleasure.'"
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This was from an article from the BBC this past February. Again these comments were made after Dresden. I don't think there was thought of being "too hard" on Germans, just his mind was turning to the post war world.
Some have questioned the military value of Dresden. Even British Prime Minister Winston Churchill expressed doubts immediately after the attack.
"It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed," he wrote in a memo.
Also now it is estimated that about 25,000 civilians died in Dresden compared to the 100,000+ in Hiroshima.
about 25,000 people had died - a figure historians agree with now - the Nazis claimed 200,000 civilians were killed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51448486
Some have questioned the military value of Dresden. Even British Prime Minister Winston Churchill expressed doubts immediately after the attack.
"It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed," he wrote in a memo.
Also now it is estimated that about 25,000 civilians died in Dresden compared to the 100,000+ in Hiroshima.
about 25,000 people had died - a figure historians agree with now - the Nazis claimed 200,000 civilians were killed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51448486
Same question for you as Salvi. What do you think was the right thing to do?
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