OT: Have y'all seen this?

[tired]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/family-s...rushed-to-death-by-police-driving-a-bulldozer

I'd like to know what you guys think? I've read the comments. Some think he ran from the law and deserved it, others think the cops were out of control. I certainly don't think the punishment fit the crime, intentional or not.

 

[The Fatboy]

Sounds a little extreme to use that amount of manpower and equipment to catch someone on a misdemeanor. They had his car and friend. You'd think they could just put out an arrest warrant for pick him up later.

It's hard to tell from the story if the department is violated his rights. Not enough details.

 

[patdog]

I wouldn't say he ran from the law and deserved it. I would say he was pretty 17ing stupid to run though. And yeah, the cops were way out of control. Just legalize it already.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I suspect,

that he had passed out or was incapacitated in some manner.

Not that hard to avoid a dozer, in the woods.

 

[dorndawg]

The police murdered a suspect with a bulldozer.

 

[johnson86-1]

that he had passed out or was incapacitated in some manner.

Not that hard to avoid a dozer, in the woods.

This is what I'm thinking. Not sure how fast a bulldozer can go; if they had it going 10 mph through the woods, then yea, that's out of control. If they were going 3-5 mph, I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to think the guy would either get out of the way or at least stand up and let them see him.

On the other hand, if they really thought a bulldozer was required to get through there, maybe it was thick enough that he really just couldn't stand up and they shouldn't have thought they could do that safely.

 

[RocketDawg]

The picture of the uncle walking through the field where the guy was run over doesn't look so dense a dog couldn't get through. It's practically an open field with small brush on the side.

It said he had "fewer than 10 plants". Does that mean 10 or more plants are allowed, or are a more serious offense? I gather the latter.

 

[The Fatboy]

I think it means the man had 9 plants.

 

[HotMop]

If you can duck a wrench you can duck a dodgeball.

 

[BossDawg78]

I've never been shot by a cop, hit by a cop, or run over by a cop.in a bulldozer......because I've never ran from a cop or resisted in any way. I took my licks at the time and didn't unnecessarily escalate the situation. These things are easily avoidable if you simply act like you have some sense around law enforcement.

Oh well. Downvote away!

 

[biscuit.sixpack]

 

[Xenomorph]

Chris Rock say..

 

[Go Budaw]

This is what I'm thinking. Not sure how fast a bulldozer can go; if they had it going 10 mph through the woods, then yea, that's out of control. If they were going 3-5 mph, I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to think the guy would either get out of the way or at least stand up and let them see him.

On the other hand, if they really thought a bulldozer was required to get through there, maybe it was thick enough that he really just couldn't stand up and they shouldn't have thought they could do that safely.

It’s out of control, under any scenario, for a 17ing cop to be driving a bulldozer. Period. There aren’t any police academies out there where they train you to operate heavy construction equipment. That’s not some earth shattering revelation....don’t know how anyone can back the police on this.

 

[DAWG61]

Bet you'd run from a cop that'd murder you with a bulldozer too

 

[11thEagleFan]

I don’t have mixed feelings about this at all. The actions of the police were insanely idiotic. I say this as a proud former member of law enforcement. The correct thing to do would be to gather his information (his car and friend were there), go to the local judge or magistrate, get an arrest warrant, and pick him up when you have some down time. Instead, some rook (I’m assuming) chases him down on a dozier? His family will get millions. Deservedly so.

 

[johnson86-1]

It’s out of control, under any scenario, for a 17ing cop to be driving a bulldozer. Period. There aren’t any police academies out there where they train you to operate heavy construction equipment. That’s not some earth shattering revelation....don’t know how anyone can back the police on this.

It's not so much backing them as it is recognizing that not every bad decision is a murder. No, a cop shouldn't have gotten on a bulldozer while he was on the clock, even if he had experience. And to the extent the bulldozer was actually necessary to get through the woods, it's ridiculous the guy felt entitled to go plow over somebody else's land or gov't land. But assuming the guy was going slow, I can understand him not thinking he was really putting anybody else in danger.

 

[13thEagle]

Another glaring example of police brutality and profiling

 

[tired]

Another glaring example of police brutality and profiling

Some people would say he should have just given the cop his ID (if he had one) & complied, and I get that, but the guy was no threat. Cops should resolve issues, not escalate them.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

That's great, but that's not everyone's experience.

I've never been shot by a cop, hit by a cop, or run over by a cop.in a bulldozer......because I've never ran from a cop or resisted in any way. I took my licks at the time and didn't unnecessarily escalate the situation. These things are easily avoidable if you simply act like you have some sense around law enforcement.

There's many great cops out there. There's also many trigger-happy dickweeds with a badge and gun. I'm glad you've only ran into the former, but don't pretend the later doesn't exist.

 

[Shmuley]

Poor Steve.

 

[Go Budaw]

It's not so much backing them as it is recognizing that not every bad decision is a murder. No, a cop shouldn't have gotten on a bulldozer while he was on the clock, even if he had experience. And to the extent the bulldozer was actually necessary to get through the woods, it's ridiculous the guy felt entitled to go plow over somebody else's land or gov't land. But assuming the guy was going slow, I can understand him not thinking he was really putting anybody else in danger.

I’m not saying it was a murder and I don’t think anyone is. I don’t think any part of the article alleges that there was any intent to kill or maim, either. That still doesn’t mean that the individual officer isn’t guilty of manslaughter, and that the department and state aren’t financially liable for millions in a wrongful death suit. None of that is even remotely up for debate, if the key facts in the article are true.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Steve has a lot of these out there. The one with him on the Scissor Lift is probably the best. I'm not entirely sure all those are real. He turned his "fame/infamy" into his own show/channel.

 

[MeridianDog]

I do think it was strange the cops said they needed a bulldozer to chase him because the woods were too thick to chase him through, when he was running through those same woods.


On another line of thought, I bet they could have captured him more quickly if that helicopter had dropped a MOAB bomb on him for less than 12 plants that God put here during creation ****.

"Behold, I have given you every seed bearing herb on the face of the earth"

"That's OK God, we developed bulldozers (and MOABs) for that circumstance."

 

[BossDawg78]

There isn't a profession on this planet that doesn't have dickeeeds infecting its work force. And yeah, I've ran into dickweed cops before, and I still acted like I had sense around them. It's simple: don't escalate the situation and nobody gets hurt.

 

[johnson86-1]

I’m not saying it was a murder and I don’t think anyone is. I don’t think any part of the article alleges that there was any intent to kill or maim, either. That still doesn’t mean that the individual officer isn’t guilty of manslaughter, and that the department and state aren’t financially liable for millions in a wrongful death suit. None of that is even remotely up for debate, if the key facts in the article are true.

I think you would be very disappointed if you looked at how accidental deaths from police are handled.

Without knowing the specifics, it seems like generally getting on a bulldozer and going through the woods would be a hell of a lot less dangerous than a no knock raid for drug issues, and those happen all the time. Granted, that is signed off on by a judge, so I guess maybe that's helpful from a legal liability perspective, but his bad decision seems a lot less bad than a lot of stuff that's basically SOP for some departments. The only reason he and his department might get popped is that it's just out of the ordinary, and so jurors might think about it a little more critically than they do when thinking about a cop engaged in a high speed chase or a no knock raid.

 

[BossDawg78]

Some people would say he should have just given the cop his ID (if he had one) & complied, and I get that, but the guy was no threat. Cops should resolve issues, not escalate them.

There's literally no way of a cop knowing the person he/she has pulled over ISN'T a threat. They have to treat it as if anything can happen at any moment. Cops TRY to resolve these issues, it's the perp that escalates the situation.

....and that video is set up. You know that, right?

 

[13thEagle]

Steve has a lot of these out there. The one with him on the Scissor Lift is probably the best. I'm not entirely sure all those are real. He turned his "fame/infamy" into his own show/channel.

 

[tired]

There's literally no way of a cop knowing the person he/she has pulled over ISN'T a threat. They have to treat it as if anything can happen at any moment. Cops TRY to resolve these issues, it's the perp that escalates the situation.

....and that video is set up. You know that, right?

Yeah, I know the video is a joke, but it's still a good indication of what some cops do. Where I live cops are not trained properly to deal with certain situation, ie folks with mental illness. They let their emotions get the better of them, and escalate things. I'm not defending criminals, but one bad, "dickweed" cop is too many. I've seen too many cops realize the person is no threat and still abuse them, while the person is cooperating. I told an off duty cop one time that was being a rude dickhead to 17 off. He then asked, "do you know who I am and what I do?". I told him I don't give a ****. He tried to restrain me and call for "back-up". That **** didn't go over too well for him. He's one of the "dickweeds". A cop should never, ever, ever, escalate things. No one deserves to get beat unmercifully for talking. If they can't handle someone running their mouths, GTFO. Someone breaks the law, they deserve their punishment, but if they are no threat, they don't deserve to be roughed up. Like this.



and this



and this dickhead

 

[BossDawg78]

The first video the perp was clearly antagonizing the cop, the second video doesn't show what happened before the cop started beating the girl, but I'd bet the farm she was acting like a psychotic *****. The third video won't play. Again, these situations escalated because of what the perp did. I'm not condoning the actions of these cops who are guilty of police brutality, but the OVERWHELMING majority, if not all of these situations can be avoided if the person being questioned, or wait "harassed" by cops, would simply act like an adult. I know you don't want to believe that and think cops are just out there looking for people to hurt and kill because evidently they are bored, but you catch more flies with honey.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

I don’t have mixed feelings about this at all. The actions of the police were insanely idiotic. I say this as a proud former member of law enforcement. The correct thing to do would be to gather his information (his car and friend were there), go to the local judge or magistrate, get an arrest warrant, and pick him up when you have some down time. Instead, some rook (I’m assuming) chases him down on a dozier? His family will get millions. Deservedly so.

This^^^

A bunch of redneck cops (yes, there are rednecks in PA) chasing down another redneck for growing 10 marijuana plants in a ******* bulldozer through the woods should never happen. I'm a huge supporter of military/law enforcement/first responders, but this is absolutely the most careless **** I've ever seen. I hope they hand over millions to that family so whoever is in charge will be sure to make sure his officers know not to be complete low lives running around in a ******* bulldozer.

 

[Go Budaw]

I think you would be very disappointed if you looked at how accidental deaths from police are handled.

Without knowing the specifics, it seems like generally getting on a bulldozer and going through the woods would be a hell of a lot less dangerous than a no knock raid for drug issues, and those happen all the time. Granted, that is signed off on by a judge, so I guess maybe that's helpful from a legal liability perspective, but his bad decision seems a lot less bad than a lot of stuff that's basically SOP for some departments. The only reason he and his department might get popped is that it's just out of the ordinary, and so jurors might think about it a little more critically than they do when thinking about a cop engaged in a high speed chase or a no knock raid.

I am disappointed in how they are handled a lot of times. All of America should be in some cases. That cop in Dallas is a perfect example. She walked into a neighbor’s apartment and immediately shot and killed him because she thought she was in her own apartment. She is 100% guilty of murder, by her own admission even, yet there was some discussion of charging her with manslaughter. And now the Dallas PD and her defense team are working up an excuse based on the amount of overtime she was working that could have it pled down to manslaughter. Just because cops and the police try to protect their own to that disgusting extent doesn’t make their actions debatable as being possibly OK.

 

[johnson86-1]

I am disappointed in how they are handled a lot of times. All of America should be in some cases. That cop in Dallas is a perfect example. She walked into a neighbor’s apartment and immediately shot and killed him because she thought she was in her own apartment. She is 100% guilty of murder, by her own admission even, yet there was some discussion of charging her with manslaughter. And now the Dallas PD and her defense team are working up an excuse based on the amount of overtime she was working that could have it pled down to manslaughter. Just because cops and the police try to protect their own to that disgusting extent doesn’t make their actions debatable as being possibly OK.

Well, without knowing texas law, that sounds like it might be manslaughter? It's essentially a mistaken application of self defense. Although malice aforethought or premeditation doesn't require much as far as prior thought, being surprised and scared might provide wiggle room under Texas law?

 

[Go Budaw]

Well, without knowing texas law, that sounds like it might be manslaughter? It's essentially a mistaken application of self defense. Although malice aforethought or premeditation doesn't require much as far as prior thought, being surprised and scared might provide wiggle room under Texas law?

Self defense from the person that was standing in the apartment she forced herself into? Tell me more about how that works. I don’t see how that’s mistaken self defense at all. Intent cannot ever be judged by a jury. And if her intent was so badly altered by the number of hours she worked that day, then she was so poorly trained and equipped to handle the normal duties of her day job that the police department ought to be embarrassed that they ever handed her a badge and a gun in the first place (and possibly even civilly liable). But that’s another story. The facts are she forced herself into someone else’s residence and shot them dead, without provocation. By very definition, that is murder at best and capital murder at worst, depending on if Texas regards breaking and entering as a felony. It’s not like she was texting and driving and accidentally struck a pedestrian. She deliberately pulled out a device intended to do nothing but kill people, and used it deliberately (and again, without provocation) for its exact intended purpose.

 

[maroonmadman]

You good people should read "Rise of the Warrior Cop" by Radley Balko. It chronicles the increasing militarization of our nations police forces and how we willingly allowed it to happen and gave away some of our civil rights as well. Interesting and mind opening stuff.

 

[patdog]

It chronicles the increasing militarization of our nations police forces

A lot of it financed with asset seizure money/property that can be seized from you EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT CHARGED WITH A CRIME and the burden of proof is on you to prove it wasn't profits from a crime or used in a crime. How is this even legal in this country?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

It's crazy to me what law enforcement will do in these circumstances. They should be held accountable. There is no reason to do that. Maybe if the guy was some proven threat to society, but otherwise, he's gonna turn up sometime soon and you can then arrest him/fine him/whatever. That being said, my general rule is a whole lotta "yes sirs" to the guys with sticks, guns and a badge that authorizes them to use them...

 

[maroonmadman]

A lot of it financed with asset seizure money/property that can be seized from you EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT CHARGED WITH A CRIME and the burden of proof is on you to prove it wasn't profits from a crime or used in a crime. How is this even legal in this country?

Because politicians and lobbyist packaged it up as a way to 'win' the "War on Drugs" and we, the American People, fell for it. Hook. Line. and Sinker. One of the few people to speak out against Asset Forfeiture was that avowed racist Strom Thurmond. He foresaw what it would lead to. Never thought I'd be in agreement with much that man said but here we are...

 

[Lettucexxxx]

Rest in pieces Mr Grateful Dead Bulldozer Man. As the good lord often does, your prayers were answered and Sweet Jesus has returned you to the bounds of his great creation, literally.

What they did was flat out wrong.

 

[johnson86-1]

Self defense from the person that was standing in the apartment she forced herself into? Tell me more about how that works. I don’t see how that’s mistaken self defense at all. Intent cannot ever be judged by a jury.

You don't see how her mistakenly thinking she was in her apartment and faced with an intruder is mistaken self defense? And intent is always as far as I know judged by a jury (or other fact finder). Even if there is a standard for intent that imputes intent based purely on certain factual details, it's still the jury or fact finder applying that standard.

And if her intent was so badly altered by the number of hours she worked that day, then she was so poorly trained and equipped to handle the normal duties of her day job that the police department ought to be embarrassed that they ever handed her a badge and a gun in the first place (and possibly even civilly liable). But that’s another story. The facts are she forced herself into someone else’s residence

By forced, do you mean opened an unlocked door? Or did she actually have to break in? If she actually had to jimmy the lock so something to get in, it starts to get hard to believe there wasn't something else going on.

and shot them dead, without provocation. By very definition, that is murder at best and capital murder at worst,

That's not all there is to the definition of murder. it might be clearly murder under texas law. Or they might have interpreted malice aforethought to not include mistakes, even egregious mistakes. For example, let's say a cop comes upon a man ontop of a woman holding a knife, and the man is forcing the woman's wrist and knife back towards the woman, coming close to her throat. The cop shoots the man and kills him. Unbeknownst to the cop, the woman was having a psychotic break and attacked the man, adn the man was just trying to subdue her. Is that murder? I think it probably wouldn't be but have no clue. Does it matter if the cop is off duty? Also no clue. Or if it's not a cop but just a civilian that thinks he/she is being a good samaritan and stopping a murder?

depending on if Texas regards breaking and entering as a felony.

usually I think to be a felony it is required for their to be some intent to commit a crime inside.

It’s not like she was texting and driving and accidentally struck a pedestrian. She deliberately pulled out a device intended to do nothing but kill people, and used it deliberately (and again, without provocation) for its exact intended purpose.

And she probably committed murder but possibly committed manslaughter. Manslaughter may be less than she deserves, but if she were to get say 15 years for manslaughter, I don't think it'd quite be a miscarriage of justice, or at the very least, would be way down the list of them that occur pretty regularly.

 

[Bcash2]

Perp was antagonizing..

The first video the perp was clearly antagonizing the cop, the second video doesn't show what happened before the cop started beating the girl, but I'd bet the farm she was acting like a psychotic *****. The third video won't play. Again, these situations escalated because of what the perp did. I'm not condoning the actions of these cops who are guilty of police brutality, but the OVERWHELMING majority, if not all of these situations can be avoided if the person being questioned, or wait "harassed" by cops, would simply act like an adult. I know you don't want to believe that and think cops are just out there looking for people to hurt and kill because evidently they are bored, but you catch more flies with honey.

.. so hey, rather than showing restraint, lets go full MMA on his ***. Woman already laying on the ground with a grown man laying on top of her is maybe acting like a psychotic *****? Hey lets punch her in the face a couple times. Some of you boot-lickers will never, ever admit that a LEO could possibly be just as much of a thug/criminal/dumbass as the people he or she is dealing with. Unfortunately for you the facts say otherwise.

I've posted this before, but I'm sure this cop was being 'antagonized' and therefore justified right?

ETA: just noticed that even the cop says "search everything on this KID". The 'kid' he just elbowed in the face.