Battle concluded today, 160 years ago.
I spent hours reading about it last night after a prompt from wiki.
It was a great read!
I spent hours reading about it last night after a prompt from wiki.
It was a great read!
Last edited:
OT: Gettysburg
- Thread starter Spectrumalaska
- Start date
The book KILLER ANGELS is epic…. The 4 hours plus movie…so good… such good actors
I love that book. Really puts you there. John Buford holding the high ground on the first day won the battle.
Interesting how many West Point grads fought side by side in the Mexican-American War and then against one another during the Civil War.
The best scene? When Lee tells Pickett( I think ) to tske his men and Pickett says in essence I have men left
It is still amazing that it took Grant and Sherman to end that war because McClellan was such a ***.
Sherman was, by all accounts, just a monster when it came to war.
Sherman was, by all accounts, just a monster when it came to war.
It’s like several books I have read … bought it, let it rest then stumbled into it
Me too.
Amazing the perspective of years on one’s ideas, need to read this one.
Thanks.
That war continues to fascinate me. The pain and suffering must have been unimaginable. No anesthesia, no antibiotics. Thousands of amputations. Horrible infections. Man, I'm glad I live in today's times.
I’m not a HUGE fan of DANCES WITH WOLVES, but the scene at the beginning of the amputee hospital is unwatchable for me… horrible pain
Yes most of the generals knew each other. Arlington on Lee's family farm for spite
God bless you. I was there once when we were out east transporting one of my kids from Fort Jackson to Fort Lee. Went to Richmond and followed Lee's retreat to Appomattox and visited it. Beautiful country and you could get a feel of the topography of the battle.
Not just McClellan. There was a procession of horrible generals starting with Scott, McDowell (then McClellan) Burnside, Hooker, and Halleck. In my opinion Burnside was the worst with his Battle of Fredericksburg disaster. All those guys planned for weeks, then went into a big battle and usually lost because Lee had time to plan, move troops into place, and steer the battle toward his chosen topography. Grant was different. He believed in having a battle on Monday. Win, lose or draw, he went back into battle on Wednesday. He was a badass.
So, I heard years ago that the 3rd book was completed by Shaara's son. Is there any probability that it becomes a film?
McClellan ranked very high at West Point and was a very capable General as far as organization and training an army. He was very meticulous at planning but was not a good battlefield general. Grant was not ranked very high at West Point but was relentless. Even after a defeat, he wouldn’t retreat North but regrouped and kept on pressing South unlike previous Northern Generals. The North had superiority in manpower and material and he used it to his advantage.
A great quote of Grant after he first took over the Army of the Potomac: “…“Oh, I am heartily tired of hearing about what Lee is going to do. Some of you always seem to think he is suddenly going to turn a double somersault, and land in our rear and on both of our flanks at the same time. Go back to your command, and try to think what we are going to do ourselves, instead of what Lee is going to do…”
I visited Gettysburg for the first time in April. I was just amazed how large the battlefield was. Someone said it was 1,600 square miles! There were multiple battles going on all over the place. My big question is logistics. How did the soldiers eat, drink and sleep? How did they organize the supply lines? If you never been there, I suggest you go. At the same time it will take a lifetime to read all the stories that happened.
Yep, McClellan would not engage.
Grant was called a butcher because he took huge losses. However, Lee primarily fought from defensive positions which held advantages. I think one of Lee‘s strategies was to elongate the war because he knew the American people were growing weary of it. Maybe they would call for peace with the south. Lincoln knew he had to get some wins in order to continue with the overall goal. He said he could not do without Grant. Grant certainly was willing to do the hard thing. He made tough decisions and was right much of the time. He is largely misunderstood and unfairly criticized in a lot of aspects.
Yeah, the South could win or tie.
The North had to win.
Also, I would have loved to drink with Grant...dude was a good ole boy!
Grant is one of the most misunderstood people in our history… a read of AMERICAN ULYSSES , and also Cherow’sbook, casts a much more favorable light on him
Grant said that the only order he regretted, was the Union charge at Cold Harbor. The rifled barrel and mercury caps of the civil war musket essentially ended the linear advance over open ground against a dug in defensive line. Lee and Longstreet understood this, and they wanted the Union army to come to them. When Lee went on the offensive with his march into Pennsylvania, his open field attacks at Gettysburg failed just like the Union Army's at Fredericksburg. The South fought well, but there were no miracles.
Gettysburg is a must see but it is packed with tour buses and cars. If you want to go to a battlefield where you can hear the ghost soldiers speak from their graves, go to Shiloh National Battlefield. It is so quiet and eerily peaceful. The carnage and tactics of that battle, while not the scale of Gettysburg, was immense.
Not an expert on this but Grant made his bones in the west, where manuver and initiative were better rewarded.
In the east he was facing better leadership and had to attack, so a war of attrition was the only option.
Or Antietam. The battle started in a cornfield by a church, progressed to a sunken road, and ended on a stone bridge. The cornfield, sunken road, church, and stone bridge (with bullet marks) are still there to this day.
From what I've read the entire philosophy of Grant and Sherman was leaps and bounds more modern in terms of warfare compared to their predecessors and it was what won the Western theater and later the war. They wanted mobile armies and didn't hesitate. They were superior tacticians to any of their predecessors and most of the Southern generals. Prior to that the Union was sluggish army that was only effective when they were entrenched in a defensive position and Lee and Jackson made them look stupid repeatedly.
Being in Pennsylvania it's a bit weird to admit but I believe I've only been to the battlefield once. (I live about 3 hours away) Was in 5th grade(?) and went for a trip in Boy (Cub?)Scouts. I don't remember it all that well aside from the scar I got on my knee from playing football too close to some gravel, lol.
The best word I can use to describe the feeling of the Gettysburg battlefield is... ethereal. Somber, mystical and hollowed all in one. It's a bit hard to describe unless you've been there - I was rather young when I went so the memory isn't fresh.
If you ever get the chance I recommend going. Was thinking about the trip the other day when I realized the date. May have to go sometime again now that I'm older and can appreciate it more.
The best word I can use to describe the feeling of the Gettysburg battlefield is... ethereal. Somber, mystical and hollowed all in one. It's a bit hard to describe unless you've been there - I was rather young when I went so the memory isn't fresh.
If you ever get the chance I recommend going. Was thinking about the trip the other day when I realized the date. May have to go sometime again now that I'm older and can appreciate it more.
There is a football analogy in there somewhere… McClellan’s gift was training and organization skills… but not game management… like a coach who recruits great but can’t win…. But the next guy can
My high school football coach made us get up early one morning during camp and made us run all the way there. Gave some speech about playing like men or whatnot. Don’t remember most of it, I was kinda tired tbh.
Chernows book is excellent. The first half is Grants early years up until Appomattox. The second half of the book is his presidency and the reconstruction years. That was bloody difficult, but he did some good work there.
In case anyone is wondering, the audiobook is 55 hours long
It’s pretty crazy. 4% of the US population of time died in someway tied to the war.
I kind of wonder how the war might’ve changed if Jackson had not died. He was pretty important to Lee.
One of my ancestors was wounded fighting for the Union at the Battle of Chancellorsville. Poor man died a few days later. Sure it wasn't a pleasant death given the medical technology (or lack thereof) of the time. One of many unfortunately. As General Sherman correctly said "War is Hell".