OT: Gabe Kapler

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fsg2_rivals

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Ah, I see. So WV is mostly lucky, CA is just unlucky, and the UK's results are all down to skill and intelligence. That makes perfect sense. 😃

Well, at least you've produced yet another strong argument for why all gun legislation, in the US, should take place at the state or local level. We'll just kind of overlook the logic flaw in saying the US and the UK are more alike than CA and WV, despite CA and WV being part of the US you're comparing to the UK.

Will you do that or will you forget the entire foundation of what you're "arguing" next post 😄

Telling that you didn't respond to NIRH who listed many reasons why the US is more similar to other countries than WV is to most of the US, let alone CA.

And yeah, mass shootings are an anomaly to which your (extraordinarily narrow) statistics don't cleanly apply. Which is why we won't dump an entire potential solution based on exactly ONE state-state comp. Which is also why what I actually suggested was looking into all comps and possibilities and not merely dismissing based on the weakest correlation ever pesented as evidence on this forum ...something for which you'd chastise another poster endlessly on any other topic.
 

mildone_rivals

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Will you do that or will you forget the entire foundation of what you're "arguing" next post 😄

Telling that you didn't respond to NIRH who listed many reasons why the US is more similar to other countries than WV is to most of the US, let alone CA.

And yeah, mass shootings are an anomaly to which your (extraordinarily narrow) statistics don't cleanly apply. Which is why we won't dump an entire potential solution based on exactly ONE state-state comp. Which is also why what I actually suggested was looking into all comps and possibilities and not merely dismissing based on the weakest correlation ever pesented as evidence on this forum ...something for which you'd chastise another poster endlessly on any other topic.
There's honestly always a good chance I'll forget much or most of it. I'd say it was early dementia, but it's been a thing since birth. So it's just a bad brain.

I didn't see his post. So the only telling thing is that I am apparently blind as well as forgetful.

Ain't my statistics, they were ABC news' statistics. And a look across all the states (considering mass shootings) reveals the same lack of correlation between gun laws and mass shooting frequency.

And, as I have said repeatedly, I think gun laws can and do work to help curb some types of ordinary gun violence. But that's an entirely different discussion and distracts from useful discussion about mass shootings since the two are clearly not the same thing and one doesn't track w/gun laws the way the other one does.
 
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fsg2_rivals

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They're your statistics insofar as you've based your entire argument around them. And they relate to only 2019, which further weakens that argument.

Now, look at a fuller picture, and tell me it suggests anything about mass shootings' relation to state gun laws so much as their relation to population:


Hand that list or graph in as your "Most Populous States" project for 3rd grade geography, and you probably get a B, maybe an A-.
 

Knightmoves

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Jul 31, 2001
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Interesting that many say that they don’t care about Gabe Kapler’s position with the national anthem, yet there are more than 3000 views on this thread.

The anthem at sporting events is still important to many sports fans imo. We have grown up with it and expect it to be part of the pregame introduction.

I believe it was Mark Cuban who tried to stop playing the anthem before games during the NBA preseason this year. The practice of playing the anthem is under fire by the Left.
 
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fsg2_rivals

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Interesting that many say that they don’t care about Gabe Kapler’s position with the national anthem, yet there are more than 3000 views on this thread.

The anthem at sporting events is still important to many sports fans imo. We have grown up with it and expect it to be part of the pregame introduction.

I believe it was Mark Cuban who tried to stop playing the anthem before games during the NBA preseason this year. The practice of playing the anthem is under fire by the Left.

Lol @ it's important. How many here were watching the anthem religiously ahead of every SF game before (or after) hearing about this Kapler thing?

MLB TV lets you choose to skip the entire pregame bs and jump right to the first inning. Why any sane person would purposefully choose to tack an extra 5 or 10 minutes onto a 3+ hour ballgame is beyond my understanding, but I doubt many are doing it just to watch the anthem.

BTW, the page views and seven pages of posts are evidence that Kapler's actions are doing exactly as intended. The "right" falls for it every time ... HARD.
 
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Knightmoves

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Lol @ it's important. How many here were watching the anthem religiously ahead of every SF game before (or after) hearing about this Kapler thing?

MLB TV lets you choose to skip the entire pregame bs and jump right to the first inning. Why any sane person would purposefully choose to tack an extra 5 or 10 minutes onto a 3+ hour ballgame is beyond my understanding, but I doubt many are doing it just to watch the anthem.

BTW, the page views and seven pages of posts are evidence that Kapler's actions are doing exactly as intended. The "right" falls for it every time ... HARD.
I’m talking about the live crowd at the game standing for the national anthem as it’s played before the game, not folks like you who consider it a waste of time watching it on TV.
 

mildone_rivals

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They're your statistics insofar as you've based your entire argument around them. And they relate to only 2019, which further weakens that argument.

Now, look at a fuller picture, and tell me it suggests anything about mass shootings' relation to state gun laws so much as their relation to population:


Hand that list or graph in as your "Most Populous States" project for 3rd grade geography, and you probably get a B, maybe an A-.
No, the stats posted by the OP of the original thread on the TX shooting spanned back a number of years, only the more recent link I posted in this thread was limited to 2019. But the states seem pretty consistent in terms of both gun laws and high or low frequency of mass shooting events across time.

I'm sure population, or population-density, is a factor. And yet NJ is far more successful in avoiding mass shootings than CA, despite them having very similar tough gun laws. I'd like to understand why that is.

TX is huge, like CA, and has plenty of non-densely populated regions. Same with most other states. WV has some densely populated regions too. So we have to drill down into the exact locations of all the mass shootings to see how densely populated the towns are in order to identify if there's a strong correlation or not.

I mean, to me, it makes sense that NYC which is extremely densely populated, has extremely tough gun laws whereas NYS itself has somewhat less strong laws, comparatively speaking. Although I don't know how many of the 96 mass shootings in NY were rural versus urban.

The numbers are not super deterministic with respect to correlations across different criteria. I think attempts to force correlations are oversimplified (again, only when it comes to mass shootings - ordinary gun violence is an altogether different matter and there are more consistent correlations to be found, from what I've seen).
 

fsg2_rivals

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I’m talking about the live crowd at the game standing for the national anthem as it’s played before the game, not folks like you who consider it a waste of time watching it on TV.

*Folks like everyone (who's honest)

So you reference a small percentage of those actually watching a given game, since multiple times more are watching on TV. Many attendees are perfectly happy to arrive late and miss the anthem and plenty of others would be perfectly happy to jump right to the game. So a percentage of a small percentage are your guys.

Again, your own evidence isn't suggesting what you think it is.
 

fsg2_rivals

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No, the stats posted by the OP of the original thread on the TX shooting spanned back a number of years, only the more recent link I posted in this thread was limited to 2019. But the states seem pretty consistent in terms of both gun laws and high or low frequency of mass shooting events across time.

I'm sure population, or population-density, is a factor. And yet NJ is far more successful in avoiding mass shootings than CA, despite them having very similar tough gun laws. I'd like to understand why that is.

TX is huge, like CA, and has plenty of non-densely populated regions. Same with most other states. WV has some densely populated regions too. So we have to drill down into the exact locations of all the mass shootings to see how densely populated the towns are in order to identify if there's a strong correlation or not.

I mean, to me, it makes sense that NYC which is extremely densely populated, has extremely tough gun laws whereas NYS itself has somewhat less strong laws, comparatively speaking. Although I don't know how many of the 96 mass shootings in NY were rural versus urban.

The numbers are not super deterministic with respect to correlations across different criteria. I think attempts to force correlations are oversimplified (again, only when it comes to mass shootings - ordinary gun violence is an altogether different matter and there are more consistent correlations to be found, from what I've seen).

Long story short (like, literally 🤪), the data is not at all conclusive and we need to dig a lot deeper into it before making any decisions on what to do or not do to tackle the problem?
 

mildone_rivals

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Long story short (like, literally 🤪), the data is not at all conclusive and we need to dig a lot deeper into it before making any decisions on what to do or not do to tackle the problem?
With respect to mass shootings, yes. While I'm sure there are numerous experts who've tried to do just that in the past, I have never seen much in the way of objective conclusions reached using objective data that has been analyzed without bias towards a particular outcome.
 
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RUScrew85

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It all starts at home. Not in every case but most of these nuts come from families with problems. I don’t know how that gets solved but that’s the common thread amongst most of these tragic events.

Might want to consider the tearing down of traditional Western cultural norms...
 

fsg2_rivals

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With respect to mass shootings, yes. While I'm sure there are numerous experts who've tried to do just that in the past, I have never seen much in the way of objective conclusions reached using objective data that has been analyzed without bias towards a particular outcome.

So the data is too inconclusive to support the conclusion that restricting or banning guns doesn't work ...objectively speaking, of course.
 

mildone_rivals

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So the data is too inconclusive to support the conclusion that restricting or banning guns doesn't work ...objectively speaking, of course.
Inconclusive that it does or doesn’t work all across the United States. And there are already lots of restrictions and some bans. For instance, fully automatic weapons are banned everywhere, so far as I’m aware. Most or every state state has laws prohibiting the sale of guns to felons or people with certain psychological conditions. Enforcement varies wide;y, though.
 

RUschool

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New York's legislature voted Thursday to ban anyone under age 21 from buying or possessing a semi-automatic rifle, a major change to state firearm laws pushed through less than three weeks after an 18-year-old used one of the guns to kill 10 people at a supermarket in Buffalo.

The bill raising the age limit is the most significant part of a package of gun control measures announced earlier this week by Democratic legislative leaders and Gov. Kathy Hochul.

Other new legislation will restrict civilian purchases of bullet-resistant armor, which was worn by the killer in Buffalo, and require new guns to be equipped with microstamping technology that can help law enforcement investigators trace bullets to particular firearms.

The age limit bill passed the Senate along party lines, 43-20, and in the Assembly 102-47, and will now head to Hochul's desk for her signature.

Republicans still fighting for the NRA.
 
Oct 17, 2007
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Interesting that many say that they don’t care about Gabe Kapler’s position with the national anthem, yet there are more than 3000 views on this thread.

The anthem at sporting events is still important to many sports fans imo. We have grown up with it and expect it to be part of the pregame introduction.

I believe it was Mark Cuban who tried to stop playing the anthem before games during the NBA preseason this year. The practice of playing the anthem is under fire by the Left.

No, more people care about mass shootings and the police arresting parents trying to make them stop it than about a song.

The greatest country in the world would do something after Uvalde that doesn't mean screaming about doors.
 
Oct 17, 2007
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No, the stats posted by the OP of the original thread on the TX shooting spanned back a number of years, only the more recent link I posted in this thread was limited to 2019. But the states seem pretty consistent in terms of both gun laws and high or low frequency of mass shooting events across time.

I'm sure population, or population-density, is a factor. And yet NJ is far more successful in avoiding mass shootings than CA, despite them having very similar tough gun laws. I'd like to understand why that is.

TX is huge, like CA, and has plenty of non-densely populated regions. Same with most other states. WV has some densely populated regions too. So we have to drill down into the exact locations of all the mass shootings to see how densely populated the towns are in order to identify if there's a strong correlation or not.

I mean, to me, it makes sense that NYC which is extremely densely populated, has extremely tough gun laws whereas NYS itself has somewhat less strong laws, comparatively speaking. Although I don't know how many of the 96 mass shootings in NY were rural versus urban.

The numbers are not super deterministic with respect to correlations across different criteria. I think attempts to force correlations are oversimplified (again, only when it comes to mass shootings - ordinary gun violence is an altogether different matter and there are more consistent correlations to be found, from what I've seen).

I went through this in my other response to you, but how about the fact that NJ is surrounded by states with strong laws...and California is not.

I know off hand several mass shooters in CA attacks bought in NV.

It's the same reason why the "but Chicago" argument is crazy. Not only is it not close to the most dangerous city...but it literally borders Indiana. It'd be like Hoboken having TX gun laws.
 

mildone_rivals

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I went through this in my other response to you, but how about the fact that NJ is surrounded by states with strong laws...and California is not.

I know off hand several mass shooters in CA attacks bought in NV.

It's the same reason why the "but Chicago" argument is crazy. Not only is it not close to the most dangerous city...but it literally borders Indiana. It'd be like Hoboken having TX gun laws.
The proximity argument is a valid consideration. And yeah, I never subscribed to the "but Chicago" thing. Although people who do bring it up are correct in saying that, in general, Americans seem utterly disinterested in all the ordinary gun violence taking place in our cities all across the nation and only get interested when there's a mass shooting.

Which is understandable from an emotional standpoint. Shooting up a whole bunch of kids at school is incredibly upsetting to me and everyone else. Whereas ordinary human violence of all kinds occurs in our cities almost as regularly as breathing. So simple sanity preservation precludes us from dwelling too much on it - such violence occurs so often we'd do nothing but be depressed or afraid 24/7.

I'm pretty cold and unemotional about virtually all the political crap people scream about in the CE forum - my view is most of it (e.g. taxes) sorts itself out precisely because the nation is so split that we just swing back and forth and the damage from either side's take is thereby limited over time. It's a great big stupid game where neither side ever has much of an advantage for long so neither side can ever fully implement their stupid ideological ideas. And the very few smart ideas can eventually work their way through the system and then stick because they're products of compromise and cooperation that, while imperfect, are at least somewhat sensible.

But where children are involved and harmed, that's where I lose my sense of detachment. I'm emotionally invested in figuring out a way to protect children.

The problem in this country is that law enforcement hasn't figured out how to stop the flood of illegal guns that find their way into the hands of criminals. That inescapable fact hovers over every discussion on gun control. I'm unwilling to take away law-abiding individual's right to arm themselves in defense against those criminals. It's a mindset gap. Some people are willing to let the government (aka the police) protect them 24/7. Some people just don't think that way (including me) and wish to be more self-reliant given the obvious, oft-proven, impossibility of the police protecting us all 24/7.

I can live with NJ's restrictions which are mostly reasonable for NJ. And if other states, w/less stringent gun laws than NJ, decide to adopt laws closer to what NJ has, fine. But in the meantime, there are numerous things that can be done. And numerous things that are being done but must be improved upon. And there's no excuse for not doing those things as the achievable ones don't materially interfere with anybody's individual rights.

The nation should focus on the low-hanging fruit with big bang for the buck (awful pun, I know). Gun bans are far from low-hanging fruit, legislatively and judicially. Fixing it so it's very hard for someone to get at the kids in schools is low hanging fruit. These are our children; it's worth more than a few bucks to add many more cameras and sensors, to harden access points to schools. etc.

Not saying people shouldn't work to implement better gun control in states where there isn't enough. Just saying it's not realistically low hanging fruit at all. So while people work on it, let's get going with improvements that are lower hanging fruit.
 

mildone_rivals

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New York's legislature voted Thursday to ban anyone under age 21 from buying or possessing a semi-automatic rifle, a major change to state firearm laws pushed through less than three weeks after an 18-year-old used one of the guns to kill 10 people at a supermarket in Buffalo.

The bill raising the age limit is the most significant part of a package of gun control measures announced earlier this week by Democratic legislative leaders and Gov. Kathy Hochul.

Other new legislation will restrict civilian purchases of bullet-resistant armor, which was worn by the killer in Buffalo, and require new guns to be equipped with microstamping technology that can help law enforcement investigators trace bullets to particular firearms.

The age limit bill passed the Senate along party lines, 43-20, and in the Assembly 102-47, and will now head to Hochul's desk for her signature.

Republicans still fighting for the NRA.
Great. Now the only folks, other than the police, who will wear body armor are criminals who don't GAF about what legislation has been passed. Law-abiding people won't even have the right to protect themselves from guns. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. We cannot get the guns out of the hands of the criminals. So let's limit the ability for innocent people to protect themselves. Brilliant.

And surely, all those 18 year old kids who form plans to murder a bunch of children will magically become sane by their 21st birthday. 'Cause that's how mental health always works. Because murdering a bunch of children is just immaturity, right? They'll grow out of it.

These measures are worse than useless.
 
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Morrischiano2

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Just like Kap 1.0, what Kap 2.0 doing is stupid. Many people believe the anthem and flag represent our military and all those that sacrificed to keep the nation free. Right or wrong, this muddles any other message someone cites for protesting it. So, from a purely marketing POV, this is a stupid way to protest.

On top of this, it seems like Kap 2.0 is trying to draw a lot of attention to himself. Whether intentional or not, it is coming across as selfish and self-motivating. If he truly wants to do something about gun control, run for office or support people that share your beliefs. Put your money where your mouth is.
I think his intention is to draw attention to the scourge that is young mass killers who use easily accessible guns in America.
 

RUBlackout7

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Great. Now the only folks, other than the police, who will wear body armor are criminals who don't GAF about what legislation has been passed. Law-abiding people won't even have the right to protect themselves from guns. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. We cannot get the guns out of the hands of the criminals. So let's limit the ability for innocent people to protect themselves. Brilliant.

And surely, all those 18 year old kids who form plans to murder a bunch of children will magically become sane by their 21st birthday. 'Cause that's how mental health always works. Because murdering a bunch of children is just immaturity, right? They'll grow out of it.

These measures are worse than useless.
The large majority of American’s support this change. This will certainly not fix all issues, but making it more difficult for 18 year olds to get their hands on an AR15 is a step in the right direction and something that pretty much everyone agrees on.
 
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Morrischiano2

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Great. Now the only folks, other than the police, who will wear body armor are criminals who don't GAF about what legislation has been passed. Law-abiding people won't even have the right to protect themselves from guns. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. We cannot get the guns out of the hands of the criminals. So let's limit the ability for innocent people to protect themselves. Brilliant.

And surely, all those 18 year old kids who form plans to murder a bunch of children will magically become sane by their 21st birthday. 'Cause that's how mental health always works. Because murdering a bunch of children is just immaturity, right? They'll grow out of it.

These measures are worse than useless.
It wont stop everyone but it will stop some. By the same logic 18 yr old will still get alcohol illegally or weed illegally at age 18 so why limit it to 21 yr olds? Do they magically become more responsible at 21?

Same for drug laws. Why make selling crystal meth and coke illegal? Drug dealers don't GAF about laws. All laws are violated by a subset of the population. That fact does not mean there should not be as many laws meant to protect the general population

For me, I would make any semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine illegal to buy, sell or own. No grandfather clause. You have one of those guns, you get a mandatory prison sentence. That's the only way to get those guns off our streets and make them safer for cops and citizens alike. That being said, any incremental law is better than no law; so NY's law is another step in the right direction.
 
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fsg2_rivals

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Great. Now the only folks, other than the police, who will wear body armor are criminals who don't GAF about what legislation has been passed. Law-abiding people won't even have the right to protect themselves from guns. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. We cannot get the guns out of the hands of the criminals. So let's limit the ability for innocent people to protect themselves. Brilliant.

And surely, all those 18 year old kids who form plans to murder a bunch of children will magically become sane by their 21st birthday. 'Cause that's how mental health always works. Because murdering a bunch of children is just immaturity, right? They'll grow out of it.

These measures are worse than useless.

In what situation does an average person need to wear body armor?

As for the age restriction, there's been much previous talk about impulse control and the brain not fully maturing until mid 20s. And 21 is pretty far removed from high school. Since many of the school shooters are outcasts who take their anger and resentment out on the school (with legal guns), a few extra years removed from school is a good thing.
 

Knightmoves

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Morris simply said the point of Kapler's action is to draw attention. This thread (and all the others like them) are attention.

That's the results of which you speak.
Attention does not equal meaningful changes in the law.

Funny that some here want mandatory jail time for those possessing an automatic weapon. But they also want cashless bail for violent criminals and a revolving door justice system for violent offenders.

The guns are not the main problem. It’s the people who are using them against our fellow citizens.
 
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fsg2_rivals

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Attention does not equal meaningful changes in the law.

Funny that some here want mandatory jail time for those possessing an automatic weapon. But they also want cashless bail for violent criminals and a revolving door justice system for violent offenders.

The guns are not the main problem. It’s the people who are using them against our fellow citizens.

Kapler said he wasn't anticipating meaningful change. That doesn't come from one citizen.

It's both. Which is why we stand alone as a civilized nation with this problem.

Who here does that second paragraph apply to? Certainly not me.
 

mildone_rivals

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The large majority of American’s support this change. This will certainly not fix all issues, but making it more difficult for 18 year olds to get their hands on an AR15 is a step in the right direction and something that pretty much everyone agrees on.
A large majority of Americans keep voting for the same people for Congress, term after term, even though Congress has a perpetually abysmal approval rating. Which tells us all we need to know about how clearly a large majority of Americans are thinking.

This is nothing more than an ineffectual feel-good measure. It's analogous to a doctor prescribing antibiotics for a viral infection; it shuts the patient up and might even have a minimal reverse-psychosomatic effect. But does more harm than good.

Personally, I'd rather see changes that can actually protect our children. And this, unfortunately, isn't that. It's just not going to be that easy.
 
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RUBlackout7

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A large majority of Americans keep voting for the same people for Congress, term after term, even though Congress has a perpetually abysmal approval rating. Which tells us all we need to know about how clearly a large majority of Americans are thinking.

This is nothing more than an ineffectual feel-good measure. It's analogous to a doctor prescribing antibiotics for a viral infection; it shuts the patient up and might even have a minimal reverse-psychosomatic effect. But does more harm than good.

Personally, I'd rather see changes that can actually protect our children. And this, unfortunately, isn't that. It's just not going to be that easy.
This is an incremental step in the right direction that will make it more difficult for insane 18 year olds to go on rampages. Common sense law. Much more to do.

Hope to see the moderate push continue, helped by Elon Musk. Good to see the far right and left beginning to be shunned.
 

mildone_rivals

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It wont stop everyone but it will stop some. By the same logic 18 yr old will still get alcohol illegally or weed illegally at age 18 so why limit it to 21 yr olds? Do they magically become more responsible at 21?

Same for drug laws. Why make selling crystal meth and coke illegal? Drug dealers don't GAF about laws. All laws are violated by a subset of the population. That fact does not mean there should not be as many laws meant to protect the general population

For me, I would make any semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine illegal to buy, sell or own. No grandfather clause. You have one of those guns, you get a mandatory prison sentence. That's the only way to get those guns off our streets and make them safer for cops and citizens alike. That being said, any incremental law is better than no law; so NY's law is another step in the right direction.
I don't think drugs should be illegal and I think the drinking age should be 18 or even 16.

The current SCOTUS will never permit a national ban on semiautomatic weapons. And there's a very good chance any state or city ban would be overturned. So any discussion along those lines is purely academic.

But I'll say it again. Before asking all the folks out there, who do not shoot up any schools or anybody else, to give up their guns, first get the millions upon millions of illegal guns out of the hands of the criminals that own them. Otherwise, it's just a very dumb idea because all it can do is prevent something that isn't happening from happening. Law abiding people are not the problem. Taking guns away from people who commit no crimes with them prevents no crimes.
 

fsg2_rivals

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I don't think drugs should be illegal and I think the drinking age should be 18 or even 16.

The current SCOTUS will never permit a national ban on semiautomatic weapons. And there's a very good chance any state or city ban would be overturned. So any discussion along those lines is purely academic.

But I'll say it again. Before asking all the folks out there, who do not shoot up any schools or anybody else, to give up their guns, first get the millions upon millions of illegal guns out of the hands of the criminals that own them. Otherwise, it's just a very dumb idea because all it can do is prevent something that isn't happening from happening. Law abiding people are not the problem. Taking guns away from people who commit no crimes with them prevents no crimes.

That last part would be quite the effective argument in a world in which mass shootings are consistently committed with illegal guns and/or by established criminals. It would be even more effective if in said world an AR15 was the most effective means for self-defense in, like, any scenario.

In our world, not so much.
 

MADHAT1

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Attention does not equal meaningful changes in the law.

Funny that some here want mandatory jail time for those possessing an automatic weapon. But they also want cashless bail for violent criminals and a revolving door justice system for violent offenders.

The guns are not the main problem. It’s the people who are using them against our fellow citizens.
in some cases this is right: "The guns are not the main problem. It’s the people who are using them against our fellow citizens."
Some people that shouldn't own guns falll though the gun law cracks and are able to legally buy guns .
The guns don't kill people it's people killing people excuse to fight gun control laws is a farce.
People using guns to kill people is the problem because guns in the wrong hands ( legal or illegal)
makes the killing easier.
Gun laws need to be changed so the cracks in those laws are filled to prevent people that shouldn't be allowed to legally purchase a weapon a gun
Also semi-automatic assault weapons need to be put in a special category and purchase restricted to qualified buyers with proper storage and weapon insurance part of qualifying to own one.
Also large magazines holding more than 8 rounds need to be on the restricted sales list , denying them to those who really don't need to have it, but allowing gun enthusiast that go to shooting ranges to buy them if they can show they have a storage area accessible to only them or located at a gun club/shooting range that they go to and have a locker at ( gun club/shooting range can hold it for them)

People kill people, guns just make the killing easier and some weapons make it easier to kill a bunch along with large magazines in them make mass killings even series.

Guns are a problem because there are some who refuse to do all they can to make sure killing with a gun is made harder to do than it is now
They find excuses to allw the type of laws be enacted to keep our children safe because that law might inconvience them, even it it allows them to buy
 
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mildone_rivals

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In what situation does an average person need to wear body armor?

As for the age restriction, there's been much previous talk about impulse control and the brain not fully maturing until mid 20s. And 21 is pretty far removed from high school. Since many of the school shooters are outcasts who take their anger and resentment out on the school (with legal guns), a few extra years removed from school is a good thing.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I see no value whatsoever in this legislation.

Something like 99.999999999% of people out there, gun lovers and gun haters alike, are never going to commit a mass murder. When 0.000000001% do, it can be horrifying. But trying to apply a rule to the 99.999999% who aren't doing anything wrong in order to "fix" the problem with the 0.00000001% makes no kind of sense whatsoever. If we used that logic for everything, we'd all be ensconced in plastic bubbles our entire lives and given electric shocks when we try to leave our homes.

And banning something that was invented to prevent one from being easily shot because a bunch of people just got shot? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. It would actually make more sense to give the kids in schools body armor to put on during a lockdown. It'd still be a stupid overreaction, but less ridiculously ineffectual. Doors that can be secured and withstand automatic weapons fire would be much more sensible.
 
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