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V-Doub

Heisman
Jul 8, 2007
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cavalot said:
What was the top tax bracket/rate during what was known as the "Golden age of capitalism?" 1940's - 1950's

Any idea?

And again, Im not arguing against capitalism. Im arguing against the wealthiest monopolizing the world's resources to their advantage, while the rest of us fools argue over the scraps and who is at fault.
Click to expand...

🤣 Do you know there wasn’t 1 single billionaire in 1950 (worldwide) and now there’s over a 1,000 in America alone? Further proof that our economic system is best wealth creator in human history.

And this is copied straight from Google AI… “While the top statutory tax rate in the 1950s was much higher (91%) than today's rate of 37%, the effective tax rate for the top 1% was lower due to numerous deductions and loopholes. In reality, top earners in the 1950s were paying about 42-45% of their income in taxes, while today, it's closer to 26-28%.”

I don’t know if you knew what you were doing but you proved my point for me. The effective tax rate for the top 1% in 1950 was about 43%. Today it’s about 27%. The results… In 60 years we’ve gone from ZERO BILLIONAIRES to OVER 1000 and we’re still the overwhelmingly richest country in the world. Case closed.
 
6

61bigredfan

Redshirt
Oct 9, 2015
1,136
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V-Doub said:
There isn’t a single county in the world where the gap between the rich and poor isn’t increasing. Capitalism, communism, socialism or something in between… doesn’t matter with regards to the increasing gap between the have and have nots. The gap grows faster among capitalist countries cause they are better at making money and don’t punitively tax and regulate their successful citizens. And as a result you grow the country’s overall GDP and wealth. The gap grows slower in communist and socialist countries, but it still continues to grow all while the country’s economy collapses. Punitively taxing the rich won’t stop the gap from growing, but it will stifle overall growth and kill the economy.
Click to expand...
Ah, Trickle down economic theory. That’s an oldie but a goodie.
 
H

Hawkins63

Redshirt
Jan 29, 2018
150
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Sooo much winning today in the markets. This new regime has really got some brilliant economic minds behind it. And dont forget, our allies hate us now too.
 
C

cavalot

All-Conference
Oct 3, 2003
23,863
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113
Walleye79 said:
Nah. I’m not upset. Upset was the looks on the democrats faces during the state of the union as there party is crumbling.
Click to expand...
That look is more about disgust and disbelief. Although I don't know how anyone could be surprised at this point. FAFO! I just find it sadly humorous that Americans want so badly to own their own countrymen that they willfully sell out their country to a troll.
 
6

61bigredfan

Redshirt
Oct 9, 2015
1,136
0
0
V-Doub said:
🤣 Do you know there wasn’t 1 single billionaire in 1950 (worldwide) and now there’s over a 1,000 in America alone? Further proof that our economic system is best wealth creator in human history.

And this is copied straight from Google AI… “While the top statutory tax rate in the 1950s was much higher (91%) than today's rate of 37%, the effective tax rate for the top 1% was lower due to numerous deductions and loopholes. In reality, top earners in the 1950s were paying about 42-45% of their income in taxes, while today, it's closer to 26-28%.”

I don’t know if you knew what you were doing but you proved my point for me. The effective tax rate for the top 1% in 1950 was about 43%. Today it’s about 27%. The results… In 60 years we’ve gone from ZERO BILLIONAIRES to OVER 1000 and we’re still the overwhelmingly richest country in the world. Case closed.
Click to expand...
Just curious, have you accounted for normal returns on investment? The annual return from the market has been around 11% correct? So there have been ~5 1/2 doublings Since then. Wouldn’t that mean that anyone worth around $60 million in the 50s would be worth over $1 billion today assuming they were mainly invested in the market or that there investments equal the market?
 
W

Walleye 1

All-Conference
Mar 7, 2021
4,952
1,769
113
cavalot said:
That look is more about disgust and disbelief. Although I don't know how anyone could be surprised at this point. FAFO! I just find it sadly humorous that Americans want so badly to own their own countrymen that they willfully sell out their country to a troll.
Click to expand...
What do you consider Biden then? Honest question do you think democrats policies were working for every day American citizens?
 
C

cavalot

All-Conference
Oct 3, 2003
23,863
1,538
113
V-Doub said:
🤣 Do you know there wasn’t 1 single billionaire in 1950 (worldwide) and now there’s over a 1,000 in America alone? Further proof that our economic system is best wealth creator in human history.

And this is copied straight from Google AI… “While the top statutory tax rate in the 1950s was much higher (91%) than today's rate of 37%, the effective tax rate for the top 1% was lower due to numerous deductions and loopholes. In reality, top earners in the 1950s were paying about 42-45% of their income in taxes, while today, it's closer to 26-28%.”

I don’t know if you knew what you were doing but you proved my point for me. The effective tax rate for the top 1% in 1950 was about 43%. Today it’s about 27%. The results… In 60 years we’ve gone from ZERO BILLIONAIRES to OVER 1000 and we’re still the overwhelmingly richest country in the world. Case closed.
Click to expand...
That's kind of my point. During the "Great America" era...You know MAGA. You had more income equality and a stronger middle class. Now you have more Billionaires and an ever shrinking middle class...You know the "backbone of America" and all that jazz. Those 37% tax bracket people are still using deductions and paying in less and less each year while monopolizing more and more. I would imagine that most of those billionaires pay in less than 27% but regardless it's a far cry from what MAGA really thinks they are getting.

What I find crazy is that average Americans are debating the selling out of America to the wealthiest few. Do you really believe in trickle down? Do you believe that the oligarchs have your best interest in mind? You didn't close a case you just doubled down on exactly what the wealthiest want you to believe. That the wealthier they become, the more they own, the deeper they intrench themselves into our government the better it's going to be for you. But then again maybe you are a billionaire and don't give a ****.
 
T

thall_

Senior
Sep 25, 2022
2,725
469
0
cavalot said:
What was the top tax bracket/rate during what was known as the "Golden age of capitalism?" 1940's - 1950's

Any idea?

And again, Im not arguing against capitalism. Im arguing against the wealthiest monopolizing the world's resources to their advantage, while the rest of us fools argue over the scraps and who is at fault. Capitalism isn't supposed to work that way right? The American ideal is that if you work hard, and you get an education, your can build a good life for you and your family. Maybe not become elite wealthy but at least live the dream right? Home, a couple of cars, a few kids, retire and die a happy man/woman. Where is that now for this next generation?

Interesting when you look at where the US is and who we are in relative comparison with.

Countries with the Largest Wealth Gaps (Recent Data)

  1. South Africa – Gini Index: ~63
    • Extreme inequality rooted in historical apartheid policies, with wealth concentrated in a small elite.
  2. Namibia – Gini Index: ~59
    • Similar to South Africa, Namibia struggles with post-colonial inequality.
  3. Brazil – Gini Index: ~53
    • Wealth disparities are significant between urban elites and rural/indigenous populations.
  4. Chile – Gini Index: ~51
    • Despite economic growth, wealth is heavily concentrated among the upper class.
  5. United States – Gini Index: ~41
    • While not the highest in the world, the U.S. ranks high among developed nations for wealth inequality, driven by financial market gains and income concentration at the top.
Click to expand...
Really interesting list you have there. Care to explain why it looks so different from this one? As in, not even in the top 20?


Weird. Not on the top 20 here, either.


Not even top 50 on this one?


Very odd how I copy/pasted your list directly into google and nothing remotely resembling it came up.
 
C

cavalot

All-Conference
Oct 3, 2003
23,863
1,538
113
Walleye79 said:
What do you consider Biden then? Honest question do you think democrats policies were working for every day American citizens?
Click to expand...
Well I can give you some basic facts but you wouldn't have anything to do with them so it doesn't matter what I say. I can tell you that one party, while not denying mistakes made, have tried to pass laws and regulations to help the average citizen and the other party hasn't.

Don't mistake a tax cut for the rich while feeding the rest of us a few measly dollars, with good policy that works for the people.

Bidens recovery plan after covid was solid and the facts substantiate that claim. That's not to say that he was perfect. The borders were a mess, afghanistan was sloppy, the overly woke stuff was still a bridge too far, and he was old and becoming senile (oh and don't forget about the price of eggs, but that doesn't seem too important anymore). I think by in large the dems have tried to create policy that helps the common man; but like anything in government... bureaucracy, regulations, and of course greed have gotten in the way of good intentions.

It will be interesting to see what 4 years (maybe more) from now looks like. If the first few months are any indication yikes. But the Republicans own Washington, so there shouldn't be any excuses moving forward. It's all in their hands. We will find out if their policy and efforts will lead to a better america for the average citizen. History has not been a good indicator for that. If I were a betting man we won't see any real substantive policies outside of some token tax relief. Although if they want to get rid of Income tax altogether that would be great....Im not holding my breath.

Bottom line is...Both parties have us bitching at each other and questioning truth at every turn. That's not good for anyone in America.
 
C

cavalot

All-Conference
Oct 3, 2003
23,863
1,538
113
thall_ said:
Really interesting list you have there. Care to explain why it looks so different from this one? As in, not even in the top 20?


Weird. Not on the top 20 here, either.


Not even top 50 on this one?


Very odd how I copy/pasted your list directly into google and nothing remotely resembling it came up.
Click to expand...
I asked where this info came from...

The information about wealth inequality and Gini index rankings comes from reputable sources like the World Bank, OECD, and CIA World Factbook, which track economic data across countries. For the most recent and precise figures, organizations like Credit Suisse, Forbes, and Oxfam also provide in-depth analysis on global wealth distribution. If you'd like, I can pull the most up-to-date statistics from credible sources.

Then I asked this question
is the US in the top 5 of the gini index

ChatGPT said:​

No, the United States is not among the top five countries with the highest Gini index, which measures income inequality. As of recent data, the U.S. has a Gini coefficient of approximately 0.41. In contrast, countries like South Africa and Namibia have Gini coefficients of 0.63 and 0.59, respectively, indicating higher income inequality.
en.wikipedia.org

While the U.S. does not rank in the top five globally for income inequality, it does have one of the highest Gini coefficients among developed nations. Factors contributing to this include income concentration at the top and disparities in wealth distribution.
It's important to note that Gini coefficients can vary based on the data source and year of measurement. For the most accurate and up-to-date figures, consulting official reports from organizations like the World Bank or OECD is recommended.

So I stand corrected on the us in the top 5. I do not withdraw my opinion that the wealth gap in America or world wide for that matter is a negative for the middle and lower classes. Or that it continues to widen at an alarming rate. I do not believe that the few owning almost everything is good for anyone but those few.
 
HBK4life_rivals100467

HBK4life_rivals100467

Heisman
Jan 24, 2004
55,988
17,282
113
cavalot said:
Well I can give you some basic facts but you wouldn't have anything to do with them so it doesn't matter what I say. I can tell you that one party, while not denying mistakes made, have tried to pass laws and regulations to help the average citizen and the other party hasn't.

Don't mistake a tax cut for the rich while feeding the rest of us a few measly dollars, with good policy that works for the people.

Bidens recovery plan after covid was solid and the facts substantiate that claim. That's not to say that he was perfect. The borders were a mess, afghanistan was sloppy, the overly woke stuff was still a bridge too far, and he was old and becoming senile (oh and don't forget about the price of eggs, but that doesn't seem too important anymore). I think by in large the dems have tried to create policy that helps the common man; but like anything in government... bureaucracy, regulations, and of course greed have gotten in the way of good intentions.

It will be interesting to see what 4 years (maybe more) from now looks like. If the first few months are any indication yikes. But the Republicans own Washington, so there shouldn't be any excuses moving forward. It's all in their hands. We will find out if their policy and efforts will lead to a better america for the average citizen. History has not been a good indicator for that. If I were a betting man we won't see any real substantive policies outside of some token tax relief. Although if they want to get rid of Income tax altogether that would be great....Im not holding my breath.

Bottom line is...Both parties have us bitching at each other and questioning truth at every turn. That's not good for anyone in America.
Click to expand...
TLDR
 
TampaBaySkers

TampaBaySkers

Senior
Oct 30, 2010
18,392
525
103
Huskers123456 said:
What a bloodbath in the market so far today. Good thing gas and eggs are so cheap like I was promised from day 1. "Purchasing power." Lol

I have 15 years until retirement so I don't really care. Just fun to point out the hypocrisy.
Click to expand...
Only way to have deflation is a recession.. enjoy
 
TampaBaySkers

TampaBaySkers

Senior
Oct 30, 2010
18,392
525
103
cavalot said:
I asked where this info came from...

The information about wealth inequality and Gini index rankings comes from reputable sources like the World Bank, OECD, and CIA World Factbook, which track economic data across countries. For the most recent and precise figures, organizations like Credit Suisse, Forbes, and Oxfam also provide in-depth analysis on global wealth distribution. If you'd like, I can pull the most up-to-date statistics from credible sources.

Then I asked this question
is the US in the top 5 of the gini index

ChatGPT said:​

No, the United States is not among the top five countries with the highest Gini index, which measures income inequality. As of recent data, the U.S. has a Gini coefficient of approximately 0.41. In contrast, countries like South Africa and Namibia have Gini coefficients of 0.63 and 0.59, respectively, indicating higher income inequality.
en.wikipedia.org

While the U.S. does not rank in the top five globally for income inequality, it does have one of the highest Gini coefficients among developed nations. Factors contributing to this include income concentration at the top and disparities in wealth distribution.
It's important to note that Gini coefficients can vary based on the data source and year of measurement. For the most accurate and up-to-date figures, consulting official reports from organizations like the World Bank or OECD is recommended.

So I stand corrected on the us in the top 5. I do not withdraw my opinion that the wealth gap in America or world wide for that matter is a negative for the middle and lower classes. Or that it continues to widen at an alarming rate. I do not believe that the few owning almost everything is good for anyone but those few.
Click to expand...
So you should enjoy the market getting crushed. Will rebalance economies . Let me know when you want to come down to FL to visit your king
 
V

V-Doub

Heisman
Jul 8, 2007
22,364
29,063
0
cavalot said:
That's kind of my point. During the "Great America" era...You know MAGA. You had more income equality and a stronger middle class. Now you have more Billionaires and an ever shrinking middle class...You know the "backbone of America" and all that jazz. Those 37% tax bracket people are still using deductions and paying in less and less each year while monopolizing more and more. I would imagine that most of those billionaires pay in less than 27% but regardless it's a far cry from what MAGA really thinks they are getting.

What I find crazy is that average Americans are debating the selling out of America to the wealthiest few. Do you really believe in trickle down? Do you believe that the oligarchs have your best interest in mind? You didn't close a case you just doubled down on exactly what the wealthiest want you to believe. That the wealthier they become, the more they own, the deeper they intrench themselves into our government the better it's going to be for you. But then again maybe you are a billionaire and don't give a ****.
Click to expand...

No, my point remains the same. The gap between the rich and the poor always grows, no matter what economic system or tax rate we use. But by lowering taxes and keeping regulations sensible you grow your overall wealth at its maximum potential. Now… if we punitively tax and regulate our society (as you are seemingly an advocate for) the gap between the rich and poor will still grow, but at somewhat slower pace. But the price we pay for that is an overall poorer country with slower GDP growth.

So you can slow the expansion of that gap (between the rich and poor) with high taxes and excessive regulation, but you do it at the cost of making the entire country poorer. Not a good trade off IMO.
 
V

V-Doub

Heisman
Jul 8, 2007
22,364
29,063
0
61bigredfan said:
Just curious, have you accounted for normal returns on investment? The annual return from the market has been around 11% correct? So there have been ~5 1/2 doublings Since then. Wouldn’t that mean that anyone worth around $60 million in the 50s would be worth over $1 billion today assuming they were mainly invested in the market or that there investments equal the market?
Click to expand...

Well if you assume everyone’s total net worth is invested in the market and they never take a single penny out for personal use. (which is a ridiculously stupid and unrealistic assumption)
 
V

V-Doub

Heisman
Jul 8, 2007
22,364
29,063
0
61bigredfan said:
Ah, Trickle down economic theory. That’s an oldie but a goodie.
Click to expand...

The left has been gaslighting the public with notion “that trickle down economics has no positive impacts on the wealth gap” for many years with no facts to back it up.
 
R

RedMyMind

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2017
12,390
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61bigredfan said:
Wasteful spending is what got you the polio vaccine, combination chemotherapy, immunotherapy for cancer, biological response modifiers for asthma, Crohn’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, ulcerative colitis, psoriatic arthritis…… that’s why they have to say that Covid vaccines don’t work, because that’s a function that is a part of government activities. Because anything that bolsters anything that the government does empowers something they want to weaken.

What Democrats are afraid of is this is all a Shell game, that while we’re claiming to stop wasteful spending what we’re actually doing is halting or delaying developing therapy of the next generation of drugs to treat illnesses that we can’t control…. Meanwhile, Elon and his cronies are disabling anyone from finding ways to prevent them from acquiring Even more billions. Like those pesky, federal regulators, environmental, protections, workplace, discrimination, and harassment, investigators, people who audit companies at the IRS.

This is completely ignoring the contracts with the government They are trying to get a hold of, like the updating of air traffic control communications. This contract is now going to Elon‘s company rather than the one currently arranged with Verizon. Elon doesn’t care about the 400 billion he already has, he wants to become the first trillionaire. He is nothing if not ambitious. How do you think he got to where he is, by caring about you?
Click to expand...
A lot of failures in there
 
V

V-Doub

Heisman
Jul 8, 2007
22,364
29,063
0
thall_ said:
Really interesting list you have there. Care to explain why it looks so different from this one? As in, not even in the top 20?


Weird. Not on the top 20 here, either.


Not even top 50 on this one?


Very odd how I copy/pasted your list directly into google and nothing remotely resembling it came up.
Click to expand...

Ouch, and these metrics are from 2025 and you posted the actual sources unlike our friend @cavalot. Why not post your source @cavalot? Me thinks those numbers came from a less than reputable source. But hey, if the facts don’t support your narrative, find new ones I guess…🤷‍♂️
 
HBK4life_rivals100467

HBK4life_rivals100467

Heisman
Jan 24, 2004
55,988
17,282
113
Walleye79 said:
Recap left good right bad. Although facts and actions don’t align with that response. Brain washed
Click to expand...
He's part of the problem. We spend more per pupil and our country is still the dumbest. Do away with the useless teachers unions and DOE. Back to the states.
 
6

61bigredfan

Redshirt
Oct 9, 2015
1,136
0
0
V-Doub said:
Well if you assume everyone’s total net worth is invested in the market and they never take a single penny out for personal use. (which is a ridiculously stupid and unrealistic assumption)
Click to expand...
Well, if you don’t, then you have no idea whether or not there has been any disproportionate growth in the number of very rich people.
 
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6

61bigredfan

Redshirt
Oct 9, 2015
1,136
0
0
RedMyMind said:
Those diseases are continuing to skyrocket.
You ever listen to the pharma commercials for those drugs?
Click to expand...
The population is getting older. The treatments I mentioned for those diseases has increased survival. Combination chemo changed ALL from a death sentence to a highly curable disease. Immunotherapy did the same for advanced melanoma and has improved survival in many other cancers. Though biological response modifiers have improved outcomes in many other diseases I mentioned I’ve already talked about how its oversold in some cases
 
R

RedMyMind

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2017
12,390
1,506
0
61bigredfan said:
The population is getting older. The treatments I mentioned for those diseases has increased survival. Combination chemo changed ALL from a death sentence to a highly curable disease. Immunotherapy did the same for advanced melanoma and has improved survival in many other cancers. Though biological response modifiers have improved outcomes in many other diseases I mentioned I’ve already talked about how its oversold in some cases
Click to expand...
Younger and younger people are getting these diseases. Maybe they should work on prevention instead of these monstrous drugs that destroy the body and pad wallets
 
V

V-Doub

Heisman
Jul 8, 2007
22,364
29,063
0
61bigredfan said:
Well, if you don’t, then you have no idea whether or not there has been any growth in the number of very rich people.
Click to expand...

Why would I need that to prove we have more millionaires and billionaires in 2025 than we did in 1950? That info is easily attainable…

In 1950 we had 17,000 millionaires in the US and zero billionaires.

In 2024 we 22,000,000 millionaires in the US and 1050 billionaires.

What more proof do you need that our economic system has been the world’s most successful model in creating more millionaires and billionaires. We kick the **** out of every other country 10 times over. Now if your goal to change that and slow our growth of wealthy people (wealth n general) we have plenty of examples of communism and socialism where the government’s greed destroyed their respective countries economically.

Facts are facts man. Our system has generated more wealth in the last 100 years than anything else the world has ever seen. There literally is not one example of a more successful economic system. But hey let’s just throw that all away and try something that’s proven to be less effective system. 🙄
 
H

Huskers123456

Redshirt
Feb 5, 2023
6,195
0
0
TampaBaySkers said:
Only way to have deflation is a recession.. enjoy
Click to expand...
I won't necessarily enjoy a recession, but what I do love is radicals all the sudden spinning the narrative to make it sound like a stock market crash and recession are a positive. Such a change in tune from the last few years. Maybe we'll all get more stimulus checks!
 
6

61bigredfan

Redshirt
Oct 9, 2015
1,136
0
0
V-Doub said:
Why would I need that to prove we have more millionaires and billionaires in 2025 than we did in 1950? That info is easily attainable…

In 1950 we had 17,000 millionaires in the US and zero billionaires.

In 2024 we 22,000,000 millionaires in the US and 1050 billionaires.

What more proof do you need that our economic system has been the world’s most successful model in creating more millionaires and billionaires. We kick the **** out of every other country 10 times over. Now if your goal to change that and slow our growth of wealthy people (wealth n general) we have plenty of examples of communism and socialism where the government’s greed destroyed their respective countries economically.

Facts are facts man. Our system has generated more wealth in the last 100 years than anything else the world has ever seen. There literally is not one example of a more successful economic system. But hey let’s just throw that all away and try something that’s proven to be less effective system. 🙄
Click to expand...
Hey, I think the United States is the best country in the world and has been the freest country in the world.

But your numbers don’t prove your point. In order for there to be an relative increase in the number of billionaires adjusted for inflation, there would have to have been less than 1050 people who were worth less than $77 million in January 1950 based on the CPI. Were there? That would be around 6% of the 1950 millionaires.
 
6

61bigredfan

Redshirt
Oct 9, 2015
1,136
0
0
Huskers123456 said:
I won't necessarily enjoy a recession, but what I do love is radicals all the sudden spinning the narrative to make it sound like a stock market crash and recession are a positive. Such a change in tune from the last few years. Maybe we'll all get more stimulus checks!
Click to expand...
The powers that be just need to keep the president under wraps to keep him from saying something that crashes the markets, etc. You know, do what they did with Biden last cycle.
 
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