OT Electric Car followup (extra long post)

[Captain Ron]

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Instead of bumping the previous thread on electric cars, thought I would give a real world account of the drive from Alpharetta to Vegas this weekend.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The car is a Tesla model 3 with about 310 mile range depending on driving style. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]We left Atlanta with about 300 miles in the tank. The plan was to stop in BHM (173 mi) at the Supercharger and have some lunch, bathroom break and arrive at my parents house (147 more miles) with 120+ miles in the tank. With no Superchargers close to STF, we knew we would need to have at least 147mi to get back to the BHM Supercharger on Sunday. (Not counting any buffer)[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Well, as usual [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the spousal unit needed an early bathroom break and my daughter was hungry, so we stopped at the Oxford Al Supercharger (112mi) instead. We were there for about 20-25 minutes while we got food etc and by the time we unplugged, we were right at 300mi in the tank. We decided to skip BHM and go to STF (202mi) non stop (since we knew we had plenty of time there to charge) and after driving around town a little, we had 70mi in the tank at our destination.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]We left Sunday heading home with a little over 200mi after plugging in at my parents house on 110v outlet. It was a little lower amp than normal and we were only getting on average about 4mph instead of closer to 5-6mph at home. (Prior to installing our 240v which gives us 30mph). We had about 50mi left when we arrived at the BHM Supercharger for lunch. We wanted at least 200mi range before leaving to make the final 173mi home and we were right at 270mi after lunch at Mugshots. We arrived home with about 94mi left in the battery.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Not counting driving around town etc, it was 628 miles round trip. We spent $12 in SuperCharging. Charging at home (Georgia power EV rate) is done between 11p-7a and isn’t much at 1.4 cents kWh or about $1.20 to go from 0 to 310mi. I have no idea what the rate is at my parents house (about 150mi added) but dad didn’t charge me I estimate in my old car would have been about $68-75$ in gas to do the same trip.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I get it isn’t for everybody, but for us it was a piece of cake. The biggest obstacle on this trip was the lack of charging options in STF. If we had only been there for a day as an example, we would have had to stop at the BHM SC to make sure we had enough juice at STF to get back to BHM, or leave the car at one of the level 2 chargers around STF which puts in about 25MPH. If we would have been staying at a couple of the hotels around town that have chargers, it wouldn’t have been an issue at all and we would have easily been topped off on a normal overnight stay. The Tuscaloosa SC is opening soon and changes the dynamic on this trip since it is so close to STF and you would not need so much extra range (that we needed this time) to get back to BHM.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I used to be the type of driver that it was all about how far I could go without stopping and if that is you, then an electric car (at today’s charging rates speed wise) probably won’t be your cup of tea. I now approach longer trips differently, with quite frankly a lot less stress. If with the family, we are stopping every 2 hours whether I like it or not, so now if we are on a trip such as this, we just plan the stops at a SC if range is an issue. On the interstate there is one just about every 150mi or so. https://www.tesla.com/supercharger[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Most of the SC are also located around food and retail so we are approaching it more like a relaxing road trip with a break for lunch/dinner etc. That being said, as SC are added and you are not having to make sure you have a full tank each time, it is easy to put in close to 60mi in the battery on a normal bathroom break.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] 2 key things to know. You need decent range (200mi at least) to start with and whatever the car, it needs the ability to fast charge. If you don’t have those 2 things (the current Leaf as an example) it isn’t practical do a road trip that requires intermediate stops.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Sorry for the extra long post....[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Good report. Thanks for this.

Maybe a dumb question, but say you got stuck in a traffic jam of like 2 or 3 hours. Does the car just turn off and not use any battery if you're in idle or how does that scenario work out?

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I always need a toilet about that time.

 

[bulldogbaja]

Well, it burns very little fuel sitting still because there is no engine to idle. If you did it long enough, the AC would probably drain the battery but it would take like days.

 

[Captain Ron]

Well, it burns very little fuel sitting still because there is no engine to idle. If you did it long enough, the AC would probably drain the battery but it would take like days.

Exactly. Especially once the car cools down, the AC just isn’t working that hard and it just do a much to the range.

 

[turkish]

Thank you for not building the tax incentive into the econs.

 

[AROB44]

What about a Chevy Volt. It always seemed to me to be the best of both worlds.....electric, but with a little gasoline engine to recharge the battery.

 

[Dawgbite]

Another stupid question but what if you show up at your intended supercharger and it broken or there is a Tofu convention in town and its full,what then?

 

[johnson86-1]

2 key things to know. You need decent range (200mi at least) to start with and whatever the car, it needs the ability to fast charge. If you don’t have those 2 things (the current Leaf as an example) it isn’t practical do a road trip that requires intermediate stops.

Does any car other than a Tesla meet those requirements?

 

[The Peeper]

Don't know if its a "supercharger" or not but there's a charger on the East end of Kroger in Starkville and 1 somewhere out at the Research Park. I've NEVER seen anyone using the one at Kroger in the 3 years I've been going to that Kroger. Not sure if the one at Research Park would be open on weekends, or does it even have to be open? There's one in Jackson that you just pull up to, swipe a CC and let it start.

 

[Drewbowski]

What is STF in your post?

 

[Captain Ron]

As far as the SuperCharger goes and it being full, there are several apps that give you the status of the charger.. same thing with “ChargePoint” chargers. They have an app that says if they are in use and if they are working.

For the Superchargers, Tesla Charges an “idle fee” when charging is complete and you are still plugged in after 5 minutes. (You can keep
Up with the status on your phone). That is incentive enough for folks to unplug and move once charging is done. At least at the moment, I haven’t see many reports of people waiting long even in Cali where there a lot more EVs. 7 of ten were taken in BHM, but only 3 when we left.

At least in BHM or ATL, there would be close by options to plug in (unless you had no miles left) assuming the SC went down at the last minute. For the most part you would probably be stuck at 30MPH at one of the level 2 chargers.

The one at the Kroger in STF is a GE Watt station. The equipment has been reported broken for about 2 years.

We did run over and use the free charger at the MSU research center just to try it out and it worked great. The only other options seem to be at hotels. (Or home charging)

Around us in Alpharetta, it seems like every mall, grocery store etc has chargers now which is really nice.

And when it comes to the tax credit, although I will happily take back some of the tax I paid this year, I don’t figure it into the equation.

Sorry for the typos but typing on the phone..

And just saw the post about the research center. It appears to get used some based on the people that actually take the time to “check in” on the apps. Same thing with the hotel chargers.

 

[Captain Ron]

And oh Yeah.. the Chevy Bolt fast charges and probably is the car with the longest range other than Tesla.. a lot of cars are coming in 2019 that will have over 200 mi and fast charge...

 

[Captain Ron]

Starkville. It is the airport identifier there. Sorry for the abreviation

 

[jb1020]

17!

Now I'm gonna have to go back to tesla.com and design my vehicle for the 10th time this summer.

Appreciate the report. Whats the insurance on that thing like? I've heard ups and downs on that topic.

 

[Shmuley]

When will you be required to replace the batteries and what is that likely to cost you?

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Well, it burns very little fuel sitting still because there is no engine to idle. If you did it long enough, the AC would probably drain the battery but it would take like days.

Really? The AC wouldn't drain the battery that much? I'm sure that scenario has been thought through by TSLA engineers. Didn't know if it was a separate battery or what.

But what you're saying is it's a non issue and no one should be nervous sitting in gridlock bc of an accident on I-20 right outside Atlanta?

 

[Captain Ron]

Ha! Do it.. I swear driving is fun again!

For 2 cars here in Atlanta, we were paying about $1600 a year. (Homeowners discount in there as well). It went to $1680, but we changed a couple of coverages and went to $1750, so really basically the same when you consider the replacement cost of this compared the trade in. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

With regards to the Volt. It is the best of both worlds depending on your driving habits. For me I would be able to make one leg of my commute on battery then gas on the way back. Obviously the trip to Vegas this weekend would have been almost all gas. So, I am able to have about 95 percent of the utility of a gas car with the range I have because we just don’t take that many road trips where we have to worry about range or long charges, so I am able to not buy gas 100 percent of the time.

The Volt is great if you have short drives most of the time, but need the flexibility of much longer drives and are worried about longer “fuel” stops with an EV. If you are driving longer distances a lot, it really isn’t doing that much over a regular hybrid as far as fuel though.

 

[AROB44]

Ha! Do it.. I swear driving is fun again!

For 2 cars here in Atlanta, we were paying about $1600 a year. (Homeowners discount in there as well). It went to $1680, but we changed a couple of coverages and went to $1750, so really basically the same when you consider the replacement cost of this compared the trade in. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

With regards to the Volt. It is the best of both worlds depending on your driving habits. For me I would be able to make one leg of my commute on battery then gas on the way back. Obviously the trip to Vegas this weekend would have been almost all gas. So, I am able to have about 95 percent of the utility of a gas car with the range I have because we just don’t take that many road trips where we have to worry about range or long charges, so I am able to not buy gas 100 percent of the time.

The Volt is great if you have short drives most of the time, but need the flexibility of much longer drives and are worried about longer “fuel” stops with an EV. If you are driving longer distances a lot, it really isn’t doing that much over a regular hybrid as far as fuel though.

Really.....I thought it would be much better since I understood the gas engine just recharged the battery and that would make it much better than a hybrid. But, I must admit, I know just enough to be classified as totally ignorant on the actual economics of the Volt.

 

[Captain Ron]

Really? The AC wouldn't drain the battery that much? I'm sure that scenario has been thought through by TSLA engineers. Didn't know if it was a separate battery or what.

But what you're saying is it's a non issue and no one should be nervous sitting in gridlock bc of an accident on I-20 right outside Atlanta?

Exactly. It would be no different stuck in traffic with your tank on E. You could always turn off the car and have no AC and you could do the same in the Tesla. If you cut it that close where you were down to 10 miles range, you certainly could go to a regular charger for 30 minutes and put 15 or so miles back in if need be assuming there was no Supercharger around.

I would be much more concerned about this sort of situation if I was in a Leaf, but heading beck from work (37 miles) I will normally have 200 miles left on the battery. That would give me probably 24 hours with the AC going.

 

[kired]

It wouldn't drain the battery anymore than idling in a normal car would drain your gas tank. AC is going to use the same amount of energy whether you're powering it off your gas engine or electric battery. I'd guess you're talking about a few tenths of a gallon of gas to run the AC for an hour in a normal car - equivalent to 5-10 miles at most? So based on that estimate, a half charged car could likely run the AC only for at least 24 hours.

 

[Captain Ron]

Really.....I thought it would be much better since I understood the gas engine just recharged the battery and that would make it much better than a hybrid. But, I must admit, I know just enough to be classified as totally ignorant on the actual economics of the Volt.

The greatest efficiency comes from the 30-40 miles you get from plugging it in. If you are in stop and go traffic, you aren’t having to idle which is also good (similar to most hybrids) but say you were driving on the intestate for 300 miles, it isn’t going to be more efficient than using a similar sized engine to power the car due to the losses from going from gas to electricity and then to the wheels, instead of going basically straight from gas to the wheel.

 

[Captain Ron]

When will you be required to replace the batteries and what is that likely to cost you?

Battery warranty is 8 years and 120000 miles that it will retain 70%. Based on what I have seen (unless there was some sort of cell failure) the batteries in the Model S are on track to be well above that.

I have not seen an exact numbers on the Model 3 battery cost, but estimates based on current cost per cell was 15k. People smarter than me (which ain’t saying much) are projecting the cost would be around 9k at the end of the warranty period based on the decline in battery costs. (Much like solar) Those are guesstimates BTW so feel free to correct me if you find different info.

I will say this, even though you don’t buy gas, you don’t have oil changes, so many fewer parts to break, it still isn’t some sort of financial savings when you consider the cost of the car over a 20k fuel efficient Honda or something. A similarly priced car? Absolutely.

I am anything but a tree hugger, but I do like to know that it is a move in getting us off of foreign oil and it certainly won’t add to the smog problem we have in Atlanta.

 

[WrapItDog]

Is your fancy golf cart allowed on campus?**

 

[Dawgbite]

.......

Is your fancy golf cart allowed on campus?**

Only if you have a parking pass!

 

[aTotal360]

FYI the using Tesla Superchargers will no longer be free to new owners.

https://electrek.co/2018/09/16/tesla-ending-free-unlimited-supercharging-era/

 

[Nicephorus]

Supercharging never was free for basic Model 3 owners, just S and X, maybe the high end performance Model 3.

If you really want to fine tune your route planning try https://abetterrouteplanner.com.

Also, anyone interested in charging options around their area try the Plugshare app. Active community with lots of pictures and reviews of charging stations. Helps your avoid broken chargers. Also can filter charging stations based on car compatibility.