OT: Copa America 2016

[RU848789]

Oh wow big loss there for Chile. I don't know if it was worthy of a 2nd yellow. The Fox guest ref thought it was harsh too. 10 men for Chile with more than 1/2 the game still left. Tough hill to climb against Argentina.

Just tuned in - that really sucks - a 2nd yellow should be crystal clear - need to see the replays...

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Just tuned in - that really sucks - a 2nd yellow should be crystal clear - need to see the replays...

Messi was on a run with the ball at speed and basically ran the guy down who was mostly standing there. He did run into him hard but the guy is also entitled to his space. In my mind questionable and if it's borderline keep it in your pocket rather than tip the scales of the game.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Jeez. Another terrible red card. This ref is blowing it.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Now straight red for Argentina. I think that should have been a yellow maybe but not a straight red but ref probably trying to make up for the 2nd yellow on Chile. Friedel didn't think it was a straight red either. Ref is too involved in this game. Well at least back to even.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Just tuned in - that really sucks - a 2nd yellow should be crystal clear - need to see the replays...

The Chilean player held position until right before the contact that Messi caused. The player then turned around to avoid getting hit in the nuts, but still kept to his position. Basically, Messi ran directly into him. The player didn't move laterally at all.

Messi, one of my all-time favorite players, is not playing this game cleanly. The ref gave him a much deserved yellow for diving in the box.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Ugh. The ref has made this game way too much about himself. Much too quick with cards. I'm thinking maybe the only valid card given out was the yellow against Messi for diving in the box.

 

[Caliknight]

There are plenty of training academies now in the US. You only need to develop 20-25 world class players. Any kid with talent now gets plucked at a young age. Recs leagues aren't the issue.

The fact remains that the best US athletes simply don't play the game. We are a star driven society. Give us one elite player who gets the big advertising deal with Nike etc and it will change everything. Take the top 3-5 WRs and 3-5 RBs in the NFL and imagine them growing up playing soccer rather than football. Look at OBJ -- he has generational talent. Its simply not cool enough yet to play soccer. Only when that happens will we break through

LBJ doesn't have generational soccer talent. Way different skills.

 

[miketd1]

Let's put it this way: the game's best player -- arguably of my lifetime -- would likely produce a very modest spider chart.

It's his skill & football IQ that set him apart.

In the NFL, you can run absolutely artisan routes and have spider-man hands, but if you're 5'6 160 and can't get off a jam, you're a fringe special teamer at best.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Ugh. Another dive by Messi. I'm so disappointed in his play in this game.

 

[bitnez]

LBJ doesn't have generational soccer talent. Way different skills.

Didn't say LBJ (LeBron??) - I said OBJ. And if you don't think that he's a world class athlete I guess we'll agree to disagree. His speed, quickness and jumping ability would match almost any athlete in the world and I'm not even a Giants fan. I also never said he was soccer player at all; that's my point.

 

[SirScarlet]

i dont think we're drastically behind either. i'm just saying overall coaching is lacking. I've been to european countries where their REC level soccer is of a much higher caliber because of the coaching. While our academies maybe taught as well as other academies, i think the overall general population is far behind. I believe in numbers and if we had a overall higher skill level teaching these kids we'd catch up quickly as the entire talent pool would take a massive step forward.

why do you consider my comments me shooting my mouth off? Thats really an unnecessary response

@theRU you are right. My comment was not cool

My apologies

 

[Caliknight]

Didn't say LBJ (LeBron??) - I said OBJ. And if you don't think that he's a world class athlete I guess we'll agree to disagree. His speed, quickness and jumping ability would match almost any athlete in the world and I'm not even a Giants fan. I also never said he was soccer player at all; that's my point.

None of that means he can control a soccer ball and has the skills to bend it. And if he could be a world class soccer player, he is absolutely blowing it from a financial perspective.

 

[theRU]

@theRU you are right. My comment was not cool

My apologies

all good...just trying hard to keep things civil with RU faithful. Thats what sarahcuse is for.

 

[theRU]

None of that means he can control a soccer ball and has the skills to bend it. And if he could be a world class soccer player, he is absolutely blowing it from a financial perspective.

To be fair not every soccer player can do those things... he could potentially have a killer header

 

[Caliknight]

Every soccer player at the highest level can do those things. Not at Messi's level, but those guys can all put balls on a dime from distance. Saying OBJ or LBJ or anyone else can be a great soccer player because they are great at another sport as is a silly as saying Messi would be a great basketball player or Michael Jordan a great baseball player or golfer.

 

[RU848789]

Just finished watching on DVR. Wow, can't believe Messi missed his PK. That was the difference as each goalie made a great stop on PKs. I hate PKs. They suck. Chile did a wonderful job on Messi, smothering him with 3, 4 or more players converging on him - he found a few open guys, who should have done better (like Aguero), but by and large, Messi was controlled.

 

[bitnez]

Every soccer player at the highest level can do those things. Not at Messi's level, but those guys can all put balls on a dime from distance. Saying OBJ or LBJ or anyone else can be a great soccer player because they are great at another sport as is a silly as saying Messi would be a great basketball player or Michael Jordan a great baseball player or golfer.

It's not silly at all. If you took the top 20 skill position players in the NFL and had them go back to 5 years old and told them to play soccer for the next 20 years instead of football you don't think they could develop the ability to play the game at an elite level? Come on. The skills sets in football and soccer are very similar (unlike golf to basketball or baseball, or soccer/basketball where height is a critical factor as you suggested). Strength, speed, quickness, vision, jumping ability, exceptional feet, etc. Of course, they would need to learn how to kick the ball but it's no different than learning to catch a football. They became elite football players because they practiced day after day just like the guys now playing in the EPL, etc. did with a soccer ball.

 

[Caliknight]

I think there is a huge difference between learning how to catch a football as opposed to kicking a soccer ball at the elite level. Could some of those guys play? Maybe. Goalie would be a good spot for a lot of those athletes, where the skill set is different. But to say they could easily play the field at the highest level? No way. If that was the case and the skills are so transferable as you say, elite soccer players should be able to cross over and play in the NBA/NFL. And that is just as silly.

Messi just announced retirement from the national team. Losing a lot of respect for him unfortunately. Hopefully that was an emotional decision to be changed when things settle down. The World Cup is only two years away.

 

[SirScarlet]

It's not silly at all. If you took the top 20 skill position players in the NFL and had them go back to 5 years old and told them to play soccer for the next 20 years instead of football you don't think they could develop the ability to play the game at an elite level? Come on. The skills sets in football and soccer are very similar (unlike golf to basketball or baseball, or soccer/basketball where height is a critical factor as you suggested). Strength, speed, quickness, vision, jumping ability, exceptional feet, etc. Of course, they would need to learn how to kick the ball but it's no different than learning to catch a football. They became elite football players because they practiced day after day just like the guys now playing in the EPL, etc. did with a soccer ball.

Bitnez - sorry to jump in here, and not sure if you knew this...but OBJ was a top notch soccer player before he committed to football. I don't recall the specifics (ie. Was he usmnt good, or d1 good), but i remember hearing he was very very good.

I know thats your point...but wasn't sure if you knew that about obj

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

I haven't seen Chile much before this tournament but I gotta say I like their style of play. It's fun to watch. They don't back down to whomever, they push the ball up, attack and have quite a few players with good speed. Now not every country has the skill to play like that but for this average fan it was fun to watch.

 

[RU848789]

Ugh. The ref has made this game way too much about himself. Much too quick with cards. I'm thinking maybe the only valid card given out was the yellow against Messi for diving in the box.

Didn't think he dove. I don't think it was a foul either - looked like he simply lost his balance in trying to move laterally through the defenders. But I agree the 2nd yellow and the straight red seemed overdone (with the red being a make-up call, IMO).

FIFA also needs to do something about the incessant haranguing of the refs by so many players when they disagree with a call - maybe post-game yellows upon review, as it's really hard to sort those out in real time.

 

[miketd1]

I haven't seen Chile much before this tournament but I gotta say I like their style of play. It's fun to watch. They don't back down to whomever, they push the ball up, attack and have quite a few players with good speed. Now not every country has the skill to play like that but for this average fan it was fun to watch.

They play with three forwards and run the equivalent to a full-court-press. It's am amazing system to watch, but you have to have the right personnel to do it. The forwards in particular have to be high energy, high endurance players to press while still being expected to score.

 

[RU Husky]

So much for Mendoza, I mean Messi, being the greatest thing to hit soccer since Pele or whoever. The final game was a fitting tribute to the "beautiful game"- two players expelled from the game and a nil- nil game decided by PKs. After demolishing the U.S., Argentina was hailed as the world's #1. Next.

 

[miketd1]

Husky: The art of the sport isn't in the result, but in the actual game itself. Both teams played a very aggressive, high-energy, attacking style.

It's unfortunate that the ref decided to do a bit of grandstanding and the PK's that ended the game, but if you weren't entertained, then you need to stick to football because soccer simply isn't your cup of tea.

 

[Jtg=04131996]

So much for Mendoza, I mean Messi, being the greatest thing to hit soccer since Pele or whoever. The final game was a fitting tribute to the "beautiful game"- two players expelled from the game and a nil- nil game decided by PKs. After demolishing the U.S., Argentina was hailed as the world's #1. Next.

You've now made an *** of yourself in two threads I've seen. Can't wait for your next post, they're all just so full of information and logic...

Let's begin...

1. Messi IS the greatest player the world has ever seen. Most knowledgeable soccer fans won't debate that, with Pele and Maradona being the only contenders (and only because Messi hasn't won a big tournament with Argentina yet). If he ever does, there will be no debate.

2. Boo-hoo. If you don't enjoy watching soccer, don't watch soccer. I don't get the need of individuals to incessantly post about their distaste for a sport...I don't find baseball particularly riveting, so I don't watch it!!! You won't see me complaining in any baseball thread...

3. Argentina was the favorite and world #1 before the tournament started, not after they beat the USA. However if you paid any attention at all, you'd know that wasn't going to be an easy match for them. Chile was in top form (just beat Mexico 7-0 and Colombia 2-0), and they were very, very familiar with Argentina. Still, the Argentinians managed 16 shots while I think Chile had just 4.

 

[MadRU]

IMHO I cannot put Messi as the greatest. I still have Pele, Maradona, and Cruyff (Greatest European Player) as my top three.

Andres Iniesta has to be up there now along with Bekenbauer and Zizu.

Everyone can have their opinion, but that's my list with Messi fourth.

 

[mildone_rivals]

IMHO I cannot put Messi as the greatest. I still have Pele, Maradona, and Cruyff (Greatest European Player) as my top three.

Andres Iniesta has to be up there now along with Bekenbauer and Zizu.

Everyone can have their opinion, but that's my list with Messi fourth.

I completely agree about Iniesta. He should be in any conversation about the best active footballers. Although at this point, he's getting up there in age.

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

Supposedly Messi is "retiring" from the Argentina squad and rumors are that Mascherano, Lavezzi, and Aguero are going to as well.

I have to think this is a stunt for now. While I don't doubt losing a final three years in a row is crushing, to be so tantalizingly close means you have to continue until you get that championship and these guys can.

 

[MadRU]

Supposedly Messi is "retiring" from the Argentina squad and rumors are that Mascherano, Lavezzi, and Aguero are going to as well.

I have to think this is a stunt for now. While I don't doubt losing a final three years in a row is crushing, to be so tantalizingly close means you have to continue until you get that championship and these guys can.

Might have been just a heat of the moment comment, we'll see when the World Cup comes around in 2018

 

[dvb91]

I completely agree about Iniesta. He should be in any conversation about the best active footballers. Although at this point, he's getting up there in age.

Yeah, Iniesta's problem is he's been a bit overshadowed by some of the greatest of his generation due to being part of the great Barca/Spain teams. Definitely one of the best and it would be hard for me to chose between him & Messi if I were to start a team.

Shame about Messi's PK. Almost inevitable, when you think of all the focus on him & Argentina. Actually enjoyed the game, as the 10 v 10 made the game wide open and it seemed both teams were always on the attack, even though Chile didn't get that many shots on goal. Aguero was given a couple of gilt edged chances and blew them, which normally doesn't happen in club ball. A couple of great saves by Bravo & Romero as well.

 

[RUnTime_rivals654121]

Messi should quit. Argentina #1 is a joke

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

How is Argentina a "joke" if they finished 2nd in every major tournament the past 3 years, losing by a late goal and then penalty kicks twice?

If Argentina is a joke than what is the US or anyone not Chile or Germany?

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

So much for Mendoza, I mean Messi, being the greatest thing to hit soccer since Pele or whoever. The final game was a fitting tribute to the "beautiful game"- two players expelled from the game and a nil- nil game decided by PKs. After demolishing the U.S., Argentina was hailed as the world's #1. Next.

Spoken like someone who did not watch the match. There are boring scoreless draws, and there are games like this one. It was thrilling, with lots of great plays by both teams.

Messi is one of the all-time greats. He missed. It happens. Cal Ripken Jr career batting AVG in World Series? .157. Dave Winfield, .136. Vlad Guerrero, .071. Jeter has the most career strikeouts and errors in the postseason. Sure, longevity and having more games have something to do with that, but still.

 

[mosito]

How is Argentina a "joke" if they finished 2nd in every major tournament the past 3 years, losing by a late goal and then penalty kicks twice?

If Argentina is a joke than what is the US or anyone not Chile or Germany?

I think what he meant to say is

1) I am a Messi Hater because I like Ronaldo
2) I am a Soccer Hater
3) I am a Brazil lover, ergo hate Argentina
Or
4) I am a Germany lover, and I am upset they aren't ranked #1 even though they won the last world cup

Definitely one of the above

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

Haha in my case my favorite club is Real and also follow the Argentine national team, so I always find the Messi/Ronaldo debate silly.