OT Brexit Vote
- Thread starter RUtix4me
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Because they thought the UK electorate would vote "stay" nonetheless. In other words, they guessed wrong.
^ sounds like the pledges our President made about our healthcare prices dropping, keeping your doctors, etc.
What is happening in Europe and here is a split between the trickle down conservatives who are apathetic to issues of race, versus the teabag types who want to scapegoat Muslims and Mexicans (or Poles in Europe) and watch the world burn. You see it right here in this thread. Some people just want lower taxes. Some want to pretend they live paycheck to paycheck because of Mexicans picking strawberries and not because they dropped out of high school.
The Trumpkins will be crying all the way to the election. There are enough actual conservatives who want to protect their investments who will align with liberals to defeat him.
Also Trump is so racist and pathetic that even Nigel Farage and Marine Le Pen have condemned him. The US does a better job at integrating, our racists just scream louder.
Toothless Albert in the Midlands just like Tootheless Albert in Mississippi can stop blaming Brussels or Washington (which actually takes NJ's money and gives it to them which they use on pecker checkers to destroy their economy), stop blaming Mexicans and Poles, stop blaming China, and start looking in the mirror. It is so fascinating how 4 years ago it was we needed to lower taxes and now we need to expand the government to round up Mexicans and impose huge taxes on imports that will destroy the middle class.
Maybe the Republicans need to wonder how much they "love the poorly educated" when doing so replaces fiscal conservatism with and solid 401ks with ethnocentrism and ruined investments.
The Trumpkins will be crying all the way to the election. There are enough actual conservatives who want to protect their investments who will align with liberals to defeat him.
Also Trump is so racist and pathetic that even Nigel Farage and Marine Le Pen have condemned him. The US does a better job at integrating, our racists just scream louder.
Toothless Albert in the Midlands just like Tootheless Albert in Mississippi can stop blaming Brussels or Washington (which actually takes NJ's money and gives it to them which they use on pecker checkers to destroy their economy), stop blaming Mexicans and Poles, stop blaming China, and start looking in the mirror. It is so fascinating how 4 years ago it was we needed to lower taxes and now we need to expand the government to round up Mexicans and impose huge taxes on imports that will destroy the middle class.
Maybe the Republicans need to wonder how much they "love the poorly educated" when doing so replaces fiscal conservatism with and solid 401ks with ethnocentrism and ruined investments.
President Obama has a higher approval rating than Reagan did in 1988.
You guys can whine all you want, you can't whine away the truth but you can and will whine all the way to him replacing Scalia on the SCOTUS.
I can't think of a better way to watch the Trumpkins squirm.
Maybe they can move to the UK. Oh wait, the points system Leave wants requires graduating high school!
You guys can whine all you want, you can't whine away the truth but you can and will whine all the way to him replacing Scalia on the SCOTUS.
I can't think of a better way to watch the Trumpkins squirm.
Maybe they can move to the UK. Oh wait, the points system Leave wants requires graduating high school!
Have it your own way. When Northern Ireland and Scotland leave Great Britain and the banking center of the EU moves to Frankfurt, Connie will always be there to serenade the idiots who voted for this while they cry in their warm beer. She loves you, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.......
I'm aware of the oil prices at the time of their independence vote. When that happened I thought it was stupid of them to leave too. Months ago before this whole Brexit thing I thought to myself see good thing you guys didn't leave with oil crashing. I have family in the UK that's why it even crossed my mind.
But again I think you discount human emotion the same human emotion that led to a leave vote even though it might not be economically positive for them. No Camerons there to campaign either and I don't see Boris Johnson or Farage having the same credibility. The UK is barely growing but now I see them going into recession after this and the people still voted for it. For Scotland, to me the EU membership is the key factor. If they can get that I think they leave, if they don't then I think they stay. Even without it I wouldn't rule it out but I think membership would be needed to push the independence vote over the top. It would be good to see a poll of Scots testing that scenario out.
As far as letting those less fiscally sound members in, I think it's less about ego and more about times were good so they're not looking towards the consequences of what happens when times turn tough. Italy, Greece, maybe Spain and some others don't have a stable debt to GDP ratio and now when times turn tough it's become untenable. Those countries can't print their own money either to help get out of it to some degree either and have had to turn to severe austerity instead which has sewn a lot of discontent. When times are good those countries want all the benefits of the EU with trade, stronger currency etc.. and the richer countries want the trade and markets to sell easily into so they overlook their requirements. Now after the crisis all the things they paper over in the good times come home to roost. The "rich" countries can't paper over those debt problems now and the "poor" ones have to endure severe austerity imposed on them which they don't like. So I see it less about ego and more about when the sun is shining no one thinks about carrying an umbrella.
As far as Brexit, I don't see gloom and doom, never did. I think it's about potential and outside of the EU I think at best the UK remains status quo but more likely has given up a lot of economic opportunity. Some there point to Switzerland and Norway as examples of countries operating in the economic area but not the union but both those countries abide by EU rules without having any say in them. So then it becomes what's the point. UK and London will always at least be some sort of hub but in the way they were for the EU? I don't see it.
Some companies will remain, some will leave and some will adjust their workforce accordingly. The fact that any adjustment has to take place is loss of opportunity. CEOs aren't going to invest into an uncertain environment again another loss of opportunity. How much new investment will they lose? Say before you'd put 100 jobs there as they are doorway into the EU will you do so now? Maybe it'll 50 instead of 100 or maybe all 100 somewhere else in the EU. There's a lot of real costs and opportunity costs in this move and I see it at best remaining status quo. There will be some tumult and I think a recession etc.. but eventually things will shake out and calm but when they do will they be better off with all those lost opportunities? I don't think so. They're not going to hell in a handbasket but I don't think they'll be as well off as they could have been either and will have likely gone through some pain in the meantime for at best the status quo. Still lots of uncertainty but this is my take on it.
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Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue
Did I offer an opinion?
Or did I say stereotyping is for the ignorant?
Nothing worse than an arrogant know it all who demeans the intelligence level of anyone who dares to see things from a different perspective
A colleague at Rutgers sent me the following link; it raises the possibility that there is an intermediate path for the U.K. -- the so-called Norway option.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/what-next-after-uk-vote-to-leave-eu.html
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/what-next-after-uk-vote-to-leave-eu.html
What does this have to do with anything being discussed here?
The Norway option includes free flow of people which is why the Brits left in the first place.
I mentioned this in my long post above and in other posts. Some point to Norway and Switzerland as countries that aren't in the EU but operate in the economic area. Problem is those countries basically follow EU rules without any say in them to be allowed to be part of the economic area. I read an article where the Norway representative had to ask the British one to bring up some topic in a meeting for her because she wasn't allowed to participate not being a member. So if your'e in the UK and you point to those 2 examples what's the point of leaving then? You end up right back at square 1 without even the input.
In your original post, you implied the South sent over 3X as many recruits as the Northeast and in your follow-up, you showed that they only send about 50% more on a per person basis (which is basically what I estimated). I appreciate you including the more relevant information, but you should do that first time out, rather than posting misleading data.
Former student? Argues cases in front of you? Son-in-law? Inquiring minds want to know. :>)
none of the above -- I've never met him -- but I'm confident nonetheless.
Awesome to watch the Progressive/Globalist/Technocrats freak out over this. I thought Liberals loved the great unwashed masses? Now they lash out in a blind fury at these "uneducated" people for making a perfectly rational decision to govern themselves and maintain the distinctiveness of their own country (a system and country which served them well for hundreds of years).
Careful, mildone will be paying you a visit!
You also have to remember why Scotland joined the union in the first place, they've always been broke. They can't survive on their own. Even if oil prices go back up they won't be able to pay off their portion of the debt and they will also lose all the military industrial complex and military bases in their country as well. So no nuclear umbrella protection. They also wouldn't be a member of NATO, UN or any other international organization and it would put them even farther behind as it takes a long time to get membership.
Again....didn't offer an opinion.....
Was commenting how arrogant and foolish it is to stereotype
Guess your not bright enough to get that
Conservatives are actually fine....Larry Fine. You can't lead. You can't even act. You have your pro-gun, pro-life, pro-war...anti-environment candidate. You'll be Fine.
You keep making an a$$ of yourself.....you ASSume.......not everyone falls in line with group think.
Now you can crawl back to your little safe space
Have a nice day piss boy
Well that poll I asked for is out. Sounds like 59% want independence now after Brexit. Now that could change and I'd like to see a poll with the EU factor in play but this is what I mean when I say you can't rule it out regardless of possible economic circumstances. The Brexit vote in England was the same dynamic. I still think the EU membership will be a big factor but right now this is the only poll out there to gauge sentiment.
As to the negotiations I was talking about and human emotion, already now we see some founding member EU foreign ministers asking for quick invoking of Article 50 to move quickly out of limbo. Some being more forceful in their comments than others. Merkel saying it can't drag out. But reports are the UK is going to wait until at least October when Cameron steps down and maybe longer. So you're already seeing points of contention which can affect that carrot stick point I was making in prior posts. So this is my point when I keep saying that so much is uncertain and unknown.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ce-has-nearly-60-per-cent-support-poll-finds/
Right now is not a good time to do a poll because I'm sure their emotions are still clouding their judgment. Once you have a clear picture, they have to pay their share of debt, no NATO, no EU, no subsidy, low oil prices et cetera, rational people will win out. If they want independence regardless of the consequences then that is their right. But the UK leaving the EU and Scotland leaving the UK are completely different. One is a world power and is financially solvent and the other is not.
SNP will have talks with the EU, NATO, UN, IMF, OECD, et cetera and they will realize the position they are in and what they can actually do, which is nothing.
As to the UK procedurally leaving the EU that is up to the UK. Like Cameron said, he won't invoke article 50. He wants people that believe in independence to have control, and I respect that and I think it's appropriate. Once the communists in the EU settle down in their safe space they will realize a quick exit isn't best for the UK or for the EU. They will continue to be an EU member until they have the deals they both need to survive in place.
Though, apparently, in the devolution agreements, some are saying Scotland (and Northern Ireland) was given some measure of control over whether the UK leaves the EU. Whether they can outright block the UK parliament from leaving (or just make it difficult enough to extract some level of concessions) remains to be seen.
Yeah that is just one person's interpretation of a treaty that says the Scottish parliament has to follow EU law. But again, England has way more leverage over Scotland, because Scotland is a failed state.
Just to respond to something you wrote earlier, Nick (or at least I think you write it), the vote doesn't take the U.K. out of NATO. Keep in mind that NATO was around long before the EU or its predecessor, the Common Market.
Only thing I said about NATO, was if Scotland left the UK they would not be part of NATO, EU, UN or any other international organization and they would likely be blocked by the UK.
Some on this thread will find this article interesting... Others, wel...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437142/brexit-vote-racism-xenophobia-were-not-cause
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437142/brexit-vote-racism-xenophobia-were-not-cause
I agree the poll is capturing the emotions of the moment but I don't know that you can say how much it will die down. Every single logical argument you can make against it was the same in 2014 (outside of oil prices) and they still managed 45% for independence with 80% turnout. Now one big piece of that puzzle has been removed with EU membership gone. So is that enough to make little more than 5% of the people change their minds. That's a big piece and not many minds to change. I see it hinging on EU membership or maybe some sort of associate status but even without those I wouldn't rule it out completely. Frankly, if Scotland is such a drain on England they should be happy to see them off. I don't see it as completely different regarding emotions. Yea UK is a world power and large economy but to me they've likely put themselves in a recession and very uncertain times for at best the status quo as I said above with real costs and opportunity costs so I don't see at as different as one may think.
Yes the invoking article 50 is up to the UK on their time table as the rules are written now. But what does it take to ratify new rules? Does everything have to be unanimous? Majority? Super Majority. I don't know. I know membership applications have to be unanimous but what about the rest of the rules? And like I said the longer they take who knows what contention will rise out of that limbo. Merkel is more measured but at the same time says it can't drag out. Many of the others including other German admin want it to move faster.
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You seem to need a compass. George Will provided one for you. He hopped the first stage coach out of Dodge.
Ok, I must have misunderstood you. I'm not so sure the UK would block Scotland from NATO; if heaven forbid, war comes, the UK is going to want to use defense facilities in Scotland. On the EU: since the UK wouldn't be a member it could hardly stop Scotland from joining.