That is true. I've seen many talented AA baseball players leave the game to "concentrate" on basketball or football when they were clearly more talented at baseball. Many of them regret it today especially when 6'2" power forwards or 5'11" tight ends are not in high demand.
OT: Black baseball teams
- Thread starter rudad02
- Start date
Nonsense. Baseball is dying off in the US in a way that is nothing like basketball. Youth of all backgrounds play basketball like crazy in the US. We are missing out on great american baseball players, esp from the inner city, because they are all playing basketball (or to a lesser extent football).
Same reason there are no more great american boxers. No one is doing it.
The New Brunswick Base Ball Club broke a 46-game winning streak by the black juggernaut of a team known as the New York Gorham who claimed they played over a hundred games and only lost four during their 1886-1892 existence. The game drew 1,200 at Neilsen Field (grandstand capacity was 200) and was played September 9, 1891. Rutgers hosted its first football game there on October 24, 1891 vs. Stevens. The Gorhams returned two weeks later. The box score is below:
September 22, 1891
New York Gorhams (Colored Giants) 6
New Brunswicks 3
Rutgers Athletic Field (a.k.a. Neilsen Field - 1st season)
New Brunswick, NJ
Attendence: 600
Umpire: Edward Hayes
R H E
New Brunswicks 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 -- 3 8 7
Gorhams 1 0 0 0 0 3 2 0 x -- 6 6 3
New Brunswicks Order: Cramer (2B); Murray (SS); Bowman (3B); Egan (LF); *John Harkins (CF); Harry Francis (P); Rafferty (C); G. Francis (1B), Greenwald (RF)
Gorhams Order: G. Williams (1B); Clarence Williams (C); S. White (2B); Grant (SS); Seldon (LF); O. Jackson (CF); A Jackson (3B); **Stovey (P); Malone (RF)
*John Harkins was the first Rutgers student to make the major leagues. He played in the National League for the Cleveland Blues (1884), Brooklyn Grays (a.k.a. Los Angeles Dodgers) (1885-87) and Baltimore Orioles (1888).
**George Stovey was considered the best African-American pitcher of the 19th century.
September 22, 1891
New York Gorhams (Colored Giants) 6
New Brunswicks 3
Rutgers Athletic Field (a.k.a. Neilsen Field - 1st season)
New Brunswick, NJ
Attendence: 600
Umpire: Edward Hayes
R H E
New Brunswicks 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 -- 3 8 7
Gorhams 1 0 0 0 0 3 2 0 x -- 6 6 3
New Brunswicks Order: Cramer (2B); Murray (SS); Bowman (3B); Egan (LF); *John Harkins (CF); Harry Francis (P); Rafferty (C); G. Francis (1B), Greenwald (RF)
Gorhams Order: G. Williams (1B); Clarence Williams (C); S. White (2B); Grant (SS); Seldon (LF); O. Jackson (CF); A Jackson (3B); **Stovey (P); Malone (RF)
*John Harkins was the first Rutgers student to make the major leagues. He played in the National League for the Cleveland Blues (1884), Brooklyn Grays (a.k.a. Los Angeles Dodgers) (1885-87) and Baltimore Orioles (1888).
**George Stovey was considered the best African-American pitcher of the 19th century.
So you’re saying America is missing out on great black baseball players because mlb doesn’t invest in the grassroots/market in black neighborhoods. And you’re also saying that America isn’t missing out on the great white basketball player - because there really aren’t any.
Sounds ridiculous to me. Race should never be brought into these discussions. The best man plays .
Yes, yes, and I agree. Race doesn't factor in. The best man plays. But in the case of baseball, the best man probably isn't playing, because he is doing something else. Its a simple fact of youth participation.
If you think we are missing out on great white basketball players because they aren't playing the game, I think you are wrong. Simple as that. Super talented white kids who are special at basketball, play basketball. They are not shirking it to play other sports. JMO.
Super talented baseball players are often not playing baseball, for a whole host of reasons, including equipment/field needs, the limited nature of participation in the game as far as coming off the bench, and simple popularity.
But in other cases where white guys or Asians don’t get the jobs, it’s just because they aren’t good enough?
It’s ridiculous to even argue this stuff .
There's not really an argument. You just seem to continually not understand the point even though it keeps getting explained to you.
Again, its just my opinion. You are saying the lack of white NBA players is evidence that there are great white players out there not playing the game. I simply disagree. I think all kids have pretty ample opportunity to figure out if they have a special talent at basketball. It is an easy sport to play and participate in. There are very, very minimal barriers to playing. Virtually every kid comes into contact with pickup basketball at some point, and if they like it and want to play (a prerequisite for being great, I think) it is very easy to find a basketball court and people to play literally anywhere.
Its not even close to the same for baseball. Its not played after school, on playgrounds, in gym class, in youth organizations or after school groups at a gym or ymca. The ONLY way for a kid to come into contact with baseball for the last few decades is to join a little league team. That means if the parents aren't getting the kid interested in baseball, by and large, he is not playing it.
I get the point . Baseball lost black players because of not investing in black neighborhoods. But in other sports that had an attrition of white players it’s because the whites aren’t good enough . Got it. Just didn’t think people would actually say that here.
The point is that you just made up the part where there has been an attrition of white players at the youth level. There hasn't. There is no support for that statement.
You don’t need to be captain obvious to realize there are less white American guys in the NBA and the NFL than years ago.
As I indicated in the original post, played against 3 all black semi-pro teams in 3 different leagues. A team out of Binghamton, NY in the semi-pro Tri-County League, The Hillcrest in a semi-pro league in the Albany, NY area, and a semi-pro team out of Millbrook NY & surrounding Hudson Valley area in the New York-NJ League. This was in the late 50's & early 60's. Only remember two other black ball players on any of the other teams in any of the leagues- a second baseman on the Kingston Braves & a second baseman on the Krals out of Schenectady. Both very good & former pros on two elite teams.
The point being that these teams existed then. Not sure why, whether it was because they just wanted to play on all black clubs or because they had trouble being accepted on the other clubs of the time. My guess is that it was because of the latter. The black clubs certainly had many fine ball players on them, including many former pros.
The point being that these teams existed then. Not sure why, whether it was because they just wanted to play on all black clubs or because they had trouble being accepted on the other clubs of the time. My guess is that it was because of the latter. The black clubs certainly had many fine ball players on them, including many former pros.
Last edited:
He said "youth level". Not the NBA or NFL. I honestly have no idea of what the stats say, but they are saying because kids in cities are playing other sports more than baseball and don't have access to baseball as easily, that baseball is potentially missing out on great players who go on to play other sports. I don't know if that's accurate, but sounds reasonable. I don't think you can argue anyone doesn't have the equal access to basketball or football so that's not an issue.
A solid article from our favorite newspaper that relates well to this thread. Wonder if the diamond mentioned is near the defunct Upsala College campus?
https://www.nj.com/essex/2019/01/th...tory-but-theres-little-recognition-of-it.html
https://www.nj.com/essex/2019/01/th...tory-but-theres-little-recognition-of-it.html
Fred Hill sr.was a great FB player at Upsala in EO.Came out of Clifford Scott,also EO.(just so ya know)
Didn't he strike out "Murders' Row" at one time?