OT: Baseball Oddity

[Colbert17!]

Something you don't see every day.
In the bottom of the 7th inning of the Padre/Brave game with two out of a scoreless game Jake Cronenworth hits a ground rule double..........that never goes pass the pitcher's rubber.
Croenenworth hits sharp comebacker off the pitcher's foot that ricochets into the dugout. Ground rule double. Cronenworth later scores. Padres win 1-0.

 

[mdk02]

Something you don't see every day.
In the bottom of the 7th inning of the Padre/Brave game with two out of a scoreless game Jake Cronenworth hits a ground rule double..........that never goes pass the pitcher's rubber.
Croenenworth hits sharp comebacker off the pitcher's foot that ricochets into the dugout. Ground rule double. Cronenworth later scores

Yankees hit 3 HRs on the first 3 pitches in their game today. Hasn't happened since detailed records have been kept (40 years?)

 

[Source]

Which inspries the following trivia question:
A batted ball hits the front of the pitching rubber and bounces into foul territory betwwen home and first. No one ever touched the ball.

Is it fair or foul?

 

[Retired711]

Which inspries the following trivia question:
A batted ball hits the front of the pitching rubber and bounces into foul territory betwwen home and first. No one ever touched the ball.

Is it fair or foul?

I think it's foul; see the definition below. But I've never seen that come close to happening.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/fair-ball

 

[Retired711]

Yankees hit 3 HRs on the first 3 pitches in their game today. Hasn't happened since detailed records have been kept (40 years?)

I'm sure you noticed that the pitcher was Nestor Cortes, who will go down in history next to Dennis Eckersley , Ralph Terry, and (for a pennant only) Ralph Branca for doing you-know-what last year.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Yankees hit 3 HRs on the first 3 pitches in their game today. Hasn't happened since detailed records have been kept (40 years?)

Never remember seeing this ever. Truly remarkable. Don’t know if the data exists to see if this ever happened in the far past.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Which inspries the following trivia question:
A batted ball hits the front of the pitching rubber and bounces into foul territory betwwen home and first. No one ever touched the ball.

Is it fair or foul?

Foul

 

[Source]

As stated by several posters here, it is a foul ball.

 

[rudad02]

As stated by several posters here, it is a foul ball.

IMO should be fair.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

IMO should be fair.

Rule is a ball must touch ground or player after passing first or third. In this case it did neither.

 

[Retired711]

Here is the relevant part of the definition from the link above:

"Any batted ball that first contacts a fielder while the ball is in fair territory is considered fair. If not touched by a fielder, any batted ball that first contacts the field in fair territory beyond first or third base -- with the foul lines and foul poles counting as fair territory -- is considered fair. Batted balls that first contact the field between home plate and first or third base are considered fair if they subsequently bounce over or directly contact either base, or otherwise pass either base while in fair territory. They are also considered fair if they settle in fair territory between home plate and first or third base, including instances in which they bounce off home plate."

It seems pretty clear under that definition that a ball that hits the rubber and then settles in foul territory is foul. It would be fair if it had hit the pitcher.

 

[rudad02]

Rule is a ball must touch ground or player after passing first or third. In this case it did neither.

I don't like the rule.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

I don't like the rule.

So a bunt that starts in fair territory then rolls foul shouldn’t be a foul?

 

[JC_in128]

Off the pitcher is a fair ball.

 

[Colbert17!]

The rubber is in fair territory so the ball should be fair but its not. Rule change please.

 

[JC_in128]

I was responding off PMikes video and agree with you Colbert, mound is in fair, off the rubber is a fair ball.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

The rubber is in fair territory so the ball should be fair but its not. Rule change please.

Not if ball goes into foul territory with no one touching it.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

I was responding off PMikes video and agree with you Colbert, mound is in fair, off the rubber is a fair ball.

Not what the rules say.

 

[Retired711]

The rubber is in fair territory so the ball should be fair but its not. Rule change please.

The rubber is considered part of the ground. And, as you know, if a ball hits fair ground and then goes foul before reaching first base or before a fielder touches it, it is foul ball.

Anyway, the scenario of a ball hitting the rubber and then going into foul ground is wildly unlikely, which is why @Source presented this as a trivia question.

 

[Doctor Worm]

The rubber is in fair territory so the ball should be fair but its not. Rule change please.

Even if that "should" be a fair ball (I don't agree), MLB is not going to make a rule change to accommodate a theoretical circumstance that likely has never happened and maybe never will.

 

[Source]

The rubber is considered part of the ground. And, as you know, if a ball hits fair ground and then goes foul before reaching first base or before a fielder touches it, it is foul ball.

Anyway, the scenario of a ball hitting the rubber and then going into foul ground is wildly unlikely, which is why @Source presented this as a trivia question.

So there. Second trivia question.

On a windy day, a batted ball clearly goes over the home run fence but is blown back to the playing field where it is caught. Is it a home run or an out?

 

[Retired711]

So there. Second trivia question.

On a windy day, a batted ball clearly goes over the home run fence but is blown back to the playing field where it is caught. Is it a home run or an out?

It's an out because a fielder caught it on the playing field before it reached the ground.

 

[Source]

It's an out because a fielder caught it on the playing field before it reached the ground.

2 for 2.

This actually happened in a game a long time ago. I believe the Orioles' Paul Blair was involved and the announcer stated a ball hit to center field actually was beyond the fence when a wind blowing straight in blew the ball back where the centerfielder caught it.

 

[Colbert17!]

Anyway, the scenario of a ball hitting the rubber and then going into foul ground is wildly unlikely

I'll give another highly unlikely scenario.
Batter hits a shot down the first base line. The ball hits first base just on the edge facing home plate and ricochets into the dugout never touching the ground either before or after it hits the bag. The ball never goes past the base. Fair or foul? The base is in fair territory but so is the rubber

 

[Doctor Worm]

I'll give another highly unlikely scenario.
Batter hits a shot down the first base line. The ball hits first base just on the edge facing home plate and ricochets into the dugout never touching the ground either before or after it hits the bag. The ball never goes past the base. Fair or foul? The base is in fair territory but so is the rubber

This one (or at least a variation) does happen occasionally. Once the ball hits first base, it's a fair ball, even if it immediately kicks into foul territory.

 

[rudad02]

So a bunt that starts in fair territory then rolls foul shouldn’t be a foul?

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

You said you don't like the rule. The rule doesn't talk about ball hitting the pitching rubber. It talks about ball passing first or third in fair territory being a fair ball. What don't you like about this rule?

 

[Retired711]

I'll give another highly unlikely scenario.
Batter hits a shot down the first base line. The ball hits first base just on the edge facing home plate and ricochets into the dugout never touching the ground either before or after it hits the bag. The ball never goes past the base. Fair or foul? The base is in fair territory but so is the rubber

The difference is that the rules specifically say that a ball that hits a base is fair. The distinction is not irrational. A base is elevated by several inches. The rubber, while it is on the highest part of the mound, isn't.

 

[Retired711]

You said you don't like the rule. The rule doesn't talk about ball hitting the pitching rubber. It talks about ball passing first or third in fair territory being a fair ball. What don't you like about this rule?

I'm on your side, but note that, as I'm sure you know, a ball doesn't have to pass first or third to be fair. A grounder to the pitcher is a fair ball because it was touched by a fielder while in fair ground. By contrast, a bunt that hits fair ground and then rolls into foul ground before it's touched (as you know, we see this all the time) is foul (unless it somehow passes first or third while fair). You and I think that the rubber should be treated as part of the ground; @Rudad doesn't, although, as you say, he hasn't told us why.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

I'm on your side, but note that, as I'm sure you know, a ball doesn't have to pass first or third to be fair. A grounder to the pitcher is a fair ball because it was touched by a fielder while in fair ground. By contrast, a bunt that hits fair ground and then rolls into foul ground before it's touched (as you know, we see this all the time) is foul (unless it somehow passes first or third while fair). You and I think that the rubber should be treated as part of the ground; @Rudad doesn't, although, as you say, he hasn't told us why.

I had said it’s fair if touched earlier. You are right.

 

[rudad02]

Rule is a ball must touch ground or player after passing first or third. In this case it did neither.

Don't get this at all. A ground ball back to the mound doesn't pass first or third. As far as a fair ball in the infield crossing over the line to foul territory, it is not analogous to a batted ball hitting the rubber & going foul, unless it hit a big pebble & kicked foul, which is highly unlikely in a big league manicured infield.

 

[Retired711]

Don't get this at all. A ground ball back to the mound doesn't pass first or third. As far as a fair ball in the infield crossing over the line to foul territory, it is not analogous to a batted ball hitting the rubber & going foul, unless it hit a big pebble & kicked foul, which is highly unlikely in a big league manicured infield.

That leads me to recall the seventh game of the 1924 World Series, which the Senators won (for their only World Championship as the Senators) in part because a ball hit a pebble and bounced over the head of Freddy Lindstrom, the Giants' third baseman. It also makes me think of the ground ball in the the 7th game of the 1960 series that mysteriously jumped up and hit Yankee shortstop Tony Kubek in the throat, paving the way for the Pirates' victory.

I do understand the distinction you are making between a grounder that goes foul because of its natural trajectory and a grounder that goes foul because it hits some kind of obstruction. Maybe the rules will get changed if the situation ever comes up.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

That leads me to recall the seventh game of the 1924 World Series, which the Senators won (for their only World Championship as the Senators) in part because a ball hit a pebble and bounced over the head of Freddy Lindstrom, the Giants' third baseman. It also makes me think of the ground ball in the the 7th game of the 1960 series that mysteriously jumped up and hit Yankee shortstop Tony Kubek in the throat, paving the way for the Pirates' victory.

I do understand the distinction you are making between a grounder that goes foul because of its natural trajectory and a grounder that goes foul because it hits some kind of obstruction. Maybe the rules will get changed if the situation ever comes up.

I've never seen this happen in a baseball game but did see it happen in a girls softball game. Don't think it is a situation we really need to worry about.

 

[RCBeta79]

Something you don't see every day.
In the bottom of the 7th inning of the Padre/Brave game with two out of a scoreless game Jake Cronenworth hits a ground rule double..........that never goes pass the pitcher's rubber.
Croenenworth hits sharp comebacker off the pitcher's foot that ricochets into the dugout. Ground rule double. Cronenworth later scores. Padres win 1-0.

Played Baseball....Was a Little league umpire as a teenager...love every oddball rule!
Participated in a triple play with 2 of the three outs in a USOTB (over 40 baseball league game) in Oakland, NJ.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Ok for those who like oddball scenarios, here is one which supposedly happened in a minor league game in the 1980's - a triple play without a single fielder touching the ball!

Here's how it allegedly happened.

First and second, no outs. Runners in motion on the pitch. Batter hits a pop fly around second base. Infield fly rule called. One out.

The lead runner on second apparently does not realize the ball was hit, and slides into third. The third base coach tells him to get up and head back to second, which he tries to do. However, the trailing runner has rounded second and passes him. So the trailing runner is out. Two outs.

The pop fly descends from the sky, and hits the lead runner for the third out.

 

[Source]

Ok for those who like oddball scenarios, here is one which supposedly happened in a minor league game in the 1980's - a triple play without a single fielder touching the ball!

Here's how it allegedly happened.

First and second, no outs. Runners in motion on the pitch. Batter hits a pop fly around second base. Infield fly rule called. One out.

The lead runner on second apparently does not realize the ball was hit, and slides into third. The third base coach tells him to get up and head back to second, which he tries to do. However, the trailing runner has rounded second and passes him. So the trailing runner is out. Two outs.

The pop fly descends from the sky, and hits the lead runner for the third out.

Ha-ha.

Three base runners could also just run off the field and be called out for being out the base line when the ball drops.

 

[RU Golfer]

Here is one for ya...

https://www.mlb.com/video/jesus-sanchez-is-called-out-after-intentional-walk

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Here is one for ya...

https://www.mlb.com/video/jesus-sanchez-is-called-out-after-intentional-walk

Not that much of an oddity. I've seen that a couple times before.

 

[Retired711]

Not that much of an oddity. I've seen that a couple times before.

Is the idea that you can't have a pinchrunner unless you have a runner and that a player isn't a runner until he touches first base? Or is the idea that he abandoned his intentional walk by not touching first base? (In other words, is this call possible only because a pinch runner was inserted?)