OT: Baseball HOF Thread
- Thread starter T2Kplus10
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Even Griffey Jr wasn't on 3 ballots. I'm not upset about one person. He's in on the first ballot, that's the only thing that matters.
I think the numbers for the real old-timers, like Cobb and Ruth, are not comparable. The voting procedure for the original hall of famers was different from what is used now. I know Williams was disliked by a lot of writers, but I am surprised about Musial.
My credentials are being smart enough to know Baines and Simmons are not HOF'ers.
He had the same WAR as Jeter in 750 fewer games. He was not a merely good player. If he had played for the Yankees he'd have a plaque and his number retired.
The "experts" didn't put Baines or Simmons in. He was put in by the bs Veterans Committee.
We were talking about Alan Trammell and the Veterans Committee. Those are the "experts" in question.
My friend (who hates the Yankees) sent me the voter's ballot. If it was a prank or lie then I apologize.
Yeah, I think he was pulling your leg. At this point, nobody knows who didn't vote for him and whoever it was is under no obligation to come clean. Unless all 396 people who voted post their ballots, there's no way the one no vote comes out unless that person admits it voluntarily.
So, you are saying you wouldn’t vote for either in their first year? That is the ONLY rational for your thoughts.
The issue is not sure thing HOF being 100% but why didn’t other no brainers get 100% in other years.
There is no human that follows baseball that could say they could for any reason not to vote for Mariano, Jeter, Griffey, Seaver, Mantle, Ruth, Aaron, Mays etc
So, all of these guys should have been 100%
And the back of Jeters BB card actually screams HOF. Only a complete fool could say otherwise. Please find me the guys that played 20 years at SS that compare...and keep in mind he wasn’t just hanging on to compile. His 2nd to last full year was one of his best.
Mo deserved it. Obviously, he was the greatest at his position and the gap to the second best is the biggest of any other position in baseball.
Worth remembering Jeter is a media player himself now. He has his Player Tribune, and he has his Marlins. Things haven't all been smooth sailing and no doubt there are at least a few people with an axe to grind (not to mention Jeter is widely tagged as a one man Herpes epidemic). I think Jeter and Mariano are in widely different sphere now. Mariano went home and ran his church.
"Bloom Off The Rose
But in a span of a few months, his PR magic–or perhaps his PR smarts–seems to have run out of gas. His management team fired several long-time Marlins executives, reportedly had a role in the canning of local cable channel announcers who called Marlins games and fired a long-time Marlins scout who was recuperating from cancer surgery. Sportswriter Woody Paige of the Colorado Springs Gazette, said Jeter "spent 20 years building up his reputation and good will, and he has really ruined it over the last several weeks."
https://www.prnewsonline.com/how-derek-jeter-can-repair-his-image/
Never said they don't deserve their HOF induction. My point was not meriting first and almost second unanimous votes all time.
Hard to compare when you consider the great closers in previous eras had to go multilpe innings for their saves, often filling innings of modern day setup men. Not to mention, the closer role itself is a relatively modern day creation.
I respectfully disagree. Not even today's advanced stats show everything important about a player. Fielding in particular is still undervalued. So is the hitter who grounds the ball to the right side with a runner on second and nobody out.
Walker deserves to be in. Great statistical breakdown of his career here and the case for him being in the Hall...
https://www.cooperstowncred.com/larry-walkers-hall-of-fame-case-and-the-coors-field-conundrum/
https://www.cooperstowncred.com/larry-walkers-hall-of-fame-case-and-the-coors-field-conundrum/
This is the tool I use the most...:Eyes: :See:
I use them for the things @camdenlawprof is talking about above.
Actually Mariano did pitch multiple innings as the setup man for John Wettland and won his first World Series. Also you can't fault a player for the change in the way the game is played. There will never be a 300 game winner. Complete games are a thing of the past.
+1
In one of the biggest post season games of his career, he pitched 3 scoreless innings and was ready to come out for a fourth (until Boone hit the walkoff HR).
There were 10 other players on the ballot the year Rivera came up that were more worthy? Don't think so.
I get that and remember it well, including all his starts his rookie season. My point is it's hard to label Mo an all time greatest when the closer position itself was redefined to a one inning specialist just the past 25 years or more. Saying Mo was the greatest closer all time doesn't carry quite the same weight as the best hitter or position player all time.
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He is the greatest of all time but the timeline only goes back to the late 60s early 70s. Doesn't deminish how great he was.
EDIT: https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1696716/yankees-fans-want-my-head-sliced-off-and-jammed-on-a-stake-game-of-thrones-styl . "Anyways – this year my fake ballot didn’t get near the attention it received in previous years because people realized that my dumbass doesn’t actually have a vote. But low and behold, like a gift from the blogging gods my hot streak continued and Jeter was ONE VOTE away from being unanimous, and people who don’t know me or Barstool think I’m the perpetrator. Yankees fans want me DEAD. Like legit I’m getting people telling me to kill myself in my DMs:"
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OK compare him to Jeff Kent, both second basemen. Kent is not in, but Whitaker should be? No.
