One more thing to consider

[BigDog72.sixpack]

Since a lot of you think Joe Judge doesn’t have the experience since he’s not been a head coach, consider the fact that every hire we’ve had, beginning with Bob Tyler, have not previously been a head coach except for JWS, who was brought in for pennies on the dollar due to NCAA baggage. I think Tyler was head coach at Mississippi high school and we know about Joe Mo. Other than those three, all others were assistants, including Marlins.

Bottom line is that our history with hiring the big names in coaching is not very plausible and in fact, we’ve had to settle in most cases for what we could get. So don’t dismiss Judge for lack of experience in the head coaching ranks. He actually has better pedigree than Croom, Felker, or even Dan, based on who he’s worked for.

 

[jack daniels dog]

Ridiculous comparison. At no time in our history have we been able to offer the $ and facilities we now have thanks to TV revenue. Which is why I am still pissed with how we handled Moorhead. Supposedly saving so much money to throw gobs of it at assistants, lot of good that did us.

 

[Go Budaw]

Give me a damn break. A better pedigree based on who he worked for? Nobody cares that he was a special teams analyst under Saban, or a career special teams coach under Belechik.

How will he recruit? We don’t know, because he’s never done it.

What’s his offensive and defensive philosophies? We don’t know, because he has no experience.

What successful coaches will he bring with him? We don’t know, because he’s literally never hired a coach and has no coaching tree.

The whole thing is a joke. If just being an MSU guy is the key requirement, just go get Hudspeth.

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

I wasn't trying to say "just because he's an MSU guy". I was trying to point out that we've not had an open wallet when it comes to hiring coaches. When Saban was hired at Alabama, he was paid 4 mill a year, which was unheard of at that time. He's now at over 11 mill. You're right when you say we didn't have the funds. Poor Rocky had to deal with playing a home game in Tampa. Things have definitely changed, but we sometimes have to step back and take off our Maroon glasses and look at it from the outside. The most "famous" hire we ever did was JWS and he had baggage. Folks aren't beating our door down to come work in Starkvegas, unless they're hungry up and comers or coaches that have been to the pinnacle and are now on the outside looking in (Chizik).

Need I remind you also that we're dead last (well, I don't know about Vandy due to private school) in funds for athletics in the conference. Yes, we're much bigger than say a UAB or La Laf., but we're not even close to the behemoths of the conference, including those teams that suck (Ark., S.C.). I'm sure John is not trying to end up with a situation that's been at say Tenn. or Ark. We'd never survive those hits that Tenn did based on our funds.

Based on what inside info I know, I wouldn't worry one bit about Judge's recruiting ability. He'll do fine. He'll definitely be better than Merlinz.

 

[missouridawg]

JoMo was a head coach at the college level prior to his time at Penn State. FCS is different for sure, but he had some CEO experience. His failure really puzzles me. He had all the right attributes and work history but just couldn’t be the general that’s needed.

 

[was21]

Is his name Marlins or *******...damn it with the cute names

 

[Go Budaw]

I wasn't trying to say "just because he's an MSU guy". I was trying to point out that we've not had an open wallet when it comes to hiring coaches. When Saban was hired at Alabama, he was paid 4 mill a year, which was unheard of at that time. He's now at over 11 mill. You're right when you say we didn't have the funds. Poor Rocky had to deal with playing a home game in Tampa. Things have definitely changed, but we sometimes have to step back and take off our Maroon glasses and look at it from the outside. The most "famous" hire we ever did was JWS and he had baggage. Folks aren't beating our door down to come work in Starkvegas, unless they're hungry up and comers or coaches that have been to the pinnacle and are now on the outside looking in (Chizik).

Need I remind you also that we're dead last (well, I don't know about Vandy due to private school) in funds for athletics in the conference. Yes, we're much bigger than say a UAB or La Laf., but we're not even close to the behemoths of the conference, including those teams that suck (Ark., S.C.). I'm sure John is not trying to end up with a situation that's been at say Tenn. or Ark. We'd never survive those hits that Tenn did based on our funds.

Based on what inside info I know, I wouldn't worry one bit about Judge's recruiting ability. He'll do fine. He'll definitely be better than Merlinz.

I have no confusion about who we are as a program. That still doesn’t mean we should make a hire that would be classified, from a resume point of view, as probably the worst head coaching hire anyone has made in 100+ years of SEC football.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I have no confusion about who we are as a program. That still doesn’t mean we should make a hire that would be classified, from a resume point of view, as probably the worst head coaching hire anyone has made in 100+ years of SEC football.

C'mon man! I understand the concern about lack of experience beyond being a ST coach, but the man is so highly thought of in the NFL that he is already a serious candidate for the HC job at the NY Giants.

That hardly smacks of "the worst HC hire anyone has made in 100+ years of SEC football". I'd rather try Judge with a talented staff than any number of experienced retreads or HC's locked into a conventional triple option (Calhoun is not married to it).

 

[seb304]

It does not sound like he actually is a "serious candidate" for that job...

 

[blacklistedbully]

JoMo was a head coach at the college level prior to his time at Penn State. FCS is different for sure, but he had some CEO experience. His failure really puzzles me. He had all the right attributes and work history but just couldn’t be the general that’s needed.

At Fordham, Moorhead had the only team in his conference allowed to offer full athletic scholarships in exchange for not being eligible for the conference championship. As OC at Penn State he had Barkley and other NFL level talent.

You think maybe those things helped mask and overcome his shortcomings until he got our job?

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

JoMo was a head coach at the college level prior to his time at Penn State. FCS is different for sure, but he had some CEO experience. His failure really puzzles me. He had all the right attributes and work history but just couldn’t be the general that’s needed.

JoMo interviewed well and owning a business, I've dealt with the same type of situation. Hired a guy that was perfect for the position and it failed miserably because he talked a bigger game than he could produce. Joe is a fine fellow, but he just didn't have what it takes. Does Judge? Don't know, but there are tons of positives that I like, biggest is he would be all in for our position versus a Napier, who would jump just like Mullin at the next best opportunity.

You don't work for either Saban or Belichek without working your *** off. They demand it. Just watch that documentary that's out right now. Look at the coaches they've produced; most good and a few misses. But those two are fantastic evaluators at talent-on the field and on the sideline.

 

[The Peeper]

Go check Matt Patricia's record as a HC at Detroit, he was a long time Belichick protege. How's he doing as a Head Coach? He actually has multiple years as as a DC too and not just a special teams coach. They are 9-22 under him, that's a .297 winning %. Before you say "yeah but that's the Lions", remember, we are Mississippi State............

 

[bulldogbaja]

OK but historically we've been pretty terrible at football. It's not like it's been working for us.

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

Go check Matt Patricia's record as a HC at Detroit, he was a long time Belichick protege. How's he doing as a Head Coach? He actually has multiple years as as a DC too and not just a special teams coach. They are 9-22 under him, that's a .297 winning %. Before you say "yeah but that's the Lions", remember, we are Mississippi State............

I stated above that with both guys, they've done good with the exception of a "few misses". The pro's outweigh the con's.

 

[Go Budaw]

C'mon man! I understand the concern about lack of experience beyond being a ST coach, but the man is so highly thought of in the NFL that he is already a serious candidate for the HC job at the NY Giants.

That hardly smacks of "the worst HC hire anyone has made in 100+ years of SEC football". I'd rather try Judge with a talented staff than any number of experienced retreads or HC's locked into a conventional triple option (Calhoun is not married to it).

He’s not a “serious candidate” for the Giants job. Not even close. And even if he was, thats an NFL job and he’s spent the entire formative period of his career as an NFL coach. He’s not qualified as an NFL HC either but he’s at least more suited to that than as an SEC head coach because he knows the lay of the land. College football is a different animal entirely.

Name one guy that has gotten an SEC head coaching job (or hell, any Power 5 job) that has zero head coaching experience, zero on-field college coaching experience in FBS, zero coordinator experience, and a grand total of 2 years position coaching experience at any level. It’s comical.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Give me a damn break. A better pedigree based on who he worked for? Nobody cares that he was a special teams analyst under Saban, or a career special teams coach under Belechik.

How will he recruit? We don’t know, because he’s never done it.

What’s his offensive and defensive philosophies? We don’t know, because he has no experience.

What successful coaches will he bring with him? We don’t know, because he’s literally never hired a coach and has no coaching tree.

The whole thing is a joke. If just being an MSU guy is the key requirement, just go get Hudspeth.

So much of what you said was wrong:

A lot of what you said has actually been said including who'd he'd likely hire as assistants and what type of coach he'd be. Here's a hint: Aaron Feld likely comes with him.

 

[maroonmania]

At Fordham, Moorhead had the only team in his conference allowed to offer full athletic scholarships in exchange for not being eligible for the conference championship. As OC at Penn State he had Barkley and other NFL level talent.

You think maybe those things helped mask and overcome his shortcomings until he got our job?

I also wonder, were the players at Fordham self-disciplined? Maybe they didn't need the guidance and accountability that most SEC athletes do.

 

[patdog]

Last 30 years, we're 183-178-2. If you throw out the 2001-2006 years, we're 166-126-2. We need to let the old history go and accept that we've been pretty competitive for a while now.

 

[Faustdog]

...the worst head coaching hire anyone has made in 100+ years of SEC football.

This is nonsense. Maybe take a little break.

 

[Dawgzilla]

Emory Bellard was a successful head coach at A&M. He had turned their program around and had 10 win seasons in '75 and '76. He resigned half way through the 78 season with a 4-2 record, following embarrassing losses to Houston and Baylor. I suppose he was damaged goods when he came to State the next season, but not nearly as damaged as Sherrill...he just needed to find a school that wanted to run the wishbone.

 

[was21]

Probably not. Also football is not a top priority at Fordham or any other Ivy League school like it is in the SEC and corches don't come under the microscope as intensely and competition is just not that tough. It was a bad hire and that's on Cohen

 

[TheStateUofMS]

His failure doesn't puzzle me. Being the coach at Fordham and an SECW school is totally differ.

You don't have to teach as much discipline and accountability when you have a team full of cerebral gym rats at a school like Fordham.

When half your players come from broken homes at the SECW or D1 level, you have to instill these character traits.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

you beat me to it!

 

[was21]

You said it better than I did

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

Article about Malcolm Butler and how he was discovered. Malcolm intercepted the ball in the Patriots win over Seattle with that interception at the end of the game:

He was invited back to Hinds that fall and played well enough to transfer to Division II Western Alabama a year later. For two years he was considered by many coaches to be one of the best cornerbacks in the Gulf Coast Conference. One day after Butler's second season, coach Will Hall received a call from New England's special teams coach Joe Judge – they were interested in Butler.