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On days like today

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Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
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The Dunedein said:
Reflecting back with the perspective of hindsight on the Mueller investigation, is Mueller marching inexorably toward the Oval Office, or is his investigation now simply shooting sparklers as it fades toward the finish? Are we looking at an iceberg of evidence gathered by Mueller, 90% of which we (the public) can’t see yet, or are we looking at an ice floe melting away as it drifts southward?

Stone appears to be in some serious criminal trouble. By his attitude today, including a nationally broadcast interview tonight (didn’t get to watch it, though), he also appears to be real confident that he will be pardoned if found Guilty. It is stunning that Stone’s lawyer would allow him to do interviews after being charged like this.
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The public presser after the indictments was odd to watch. Almost as if Stone believes that he'll get a pardon when all is said and done.

Based on the reading of the indictments, maybe Mueller's sitting on more, but I think he's grabbing whatever fruit he can.
 
dave

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,601
817
113
The Dunedein said:
Reflecting back with the perspective of hindsight on the Mueller investigation, is Mueller marching inexorably toward the Oval Office, or is his investigation now simply shooting sparklers as it fades toward the finish? Are we looking at an iceberg of evidence gathered by Mueller, 90% of which we (the public) can’t see yet, or are we looking at an ice floe melting away as it drifts southward?

Stone appears to be in some serious criminal trouble. By his attitude today, including a nationally broadcast interview tonight (didn’t get to watch it, though), he also appears to be real confident that he will be pardoned if found Guilty. It is stunning that Stone’s lawyer would allow him to do interviews after being charged like this.
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He seems confident he can beat the charges.
 
atlkvb

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,585
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The Dunedein said:
Reflecting back with the perspective of hindsight on the Mueller investigation, is Mueller marching inexorably toward the Oval Office, or is his investigation now simply shooting sparklers as it fades toward the finish? Are we looking at an iceberg of evidence gathered by Mueller, 90% of which we (the public) can’t see yet, or are we looking at an ice floe melting away as it drifts southward?

Stone appears to be in some serious criminal trouble. By his attitude today, including a nationally broadcast interview tonight (didn’t get to watch it, though), he also appears to be real confident that he will be pardoned if found Guilty. It is stunning that Stone’s lawyer would allow him to do interviews after being charged like this.
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It's amazing to me his "crimes" weren't allegedly committed until Mueller began his investigation! We know they framed Flynn...is Stone just another set up job designed to smear Trump or force him (Stone) to compose?
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,230
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The Dunedein said:
Reflecting back with the perspective of hindsight on the Mueller investigation, is Mueller marching inexorably toward the Oval Office, or is his investigation now simply shooting sparklers as it fades toward the finish? Are we looking at an iceberg of evidence gathered by Mueller, 90% of which we (the public) can’t see yet, or are we looking at an ice floe melting away as it drifts southward?

Stone appears to be in some serious criminal trouble. By his attitude today, including a nationally broadcast interview tonight (didn’t get to watch it, though), he also appears to be real confident that he will be pardoned if found Guilty. It is stunning that Stone’s lawyer would allow him to do interviews after being charged like this.
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Reading up on Stone, he’s a lunatic. His lawyer probably advised him against it, but no chance he’s taking that advice. Stone is all about hitting back, hitting first, hitting often, and lying if he needs to.
 
M

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
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DvlDog4WVU said:
Reading up on Stone, he’s a lunatic. His lawyer probably advised him against it, but no chance he’s taking that advice. Stone is all about hitting back, hitting first, hitting often, and lying if he needs to.
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And quote the Godfather...
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

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dave said:
He seems confident he can beat the charges.
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He’s not beating the charges. I don’t know if he has anything on anyone, but based on his persona, I’d be shocked if he gave anything up.
 
dave

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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DvlDog4WVU said:
He’s not beating the charges. I don’t know if he has anything on anyone, but based on his persona, I’d be shocked if he gave anything up.
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I dont know how he beats all of them. He seems confident he will though.
 
M

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
10,192
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dave said:
I dont know how he beats all of them. He seems confident he will though.
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Wouldn't it be something if Mueller has an email where Trump tells Stone "Don't worry... I'll pardon you." Stone's acting like someone who firmly believes he's going to get one.

The over top nature of the arrest was silly, but based on the language of the indictments, Stone could have trouble being found not guilty.
 
dave

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,601
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Mntneer said:
Wouldn't it be something if Mueller has an email where Trump tells Stone "Don't worry... I'll pardon you." Stone's acting like someone who firmly believes he's going to get one.

The over top nature of the arrest was silly, but based on the language of the indictments, Stone could have trouble being found not guilty.
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Stone knew a long time ago that the FBI was spying on his media so I cant see him emailing like that with trump. Plus I think I read that Trump doesnt do email. Probably texts.
 
T

TarHeelEer

Freshman
Dec 15, 2002
89,304
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The Dunedein said:
It is stunning that Stone’s lawyer would allow him to do interviews after being charged like this.
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I read up on him, and watched the Netflix thing last night. Dude is nuts. One of his rules, which he followed last night: "Never miss an opportunity for sex or to be on TV". TV time would be more important than jail to him.
 
T

TarHeelEer

Freshman
Dec 15, 2002
89,304
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TarHeelEer said:
I read up on him, and watched the Netflix thing last night. Dude is nuts. One of his rules, which he followed last night: "Never miss an opportunity for sex or to be on TV". TV time would be more important than jail to him.
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Caviat: Did he play it up for the documentary? Absolutely. How much? Who knows.
 
W

WVU82_rivals

Senior
May 29, 2001
199,091
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rog1187

rog1187

All-American
May 29, 2001
70,024
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Mntneer said:
Wouldn't it be something if Mueller has an email where Trump tells Stone "Don't worry... I'll pardon you." Stone's acting like someone who firmly believes he's going to get one.

The over top nature of the arrest was silly, but based on the language of the indictments, Stone could have trouble being found not guilty.
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I don’t think Trump uses email.
 
The Dunedein

The Dunedein

Junior
Aug 1, 2003
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DvlDog4WVU said:
He’s not beating the charges. I don’t know if he has anything on anyone, but based on his persona, I’d be shocked if he gave anything up.
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I also don’t think he will beat the charges. But as to rolling on Trump, it seems that the ones who are most defiant about not rolling are often the ones who do the flop easiest (i.e., didn’t Cohen say he would take a bullet for DT). I’m curious how some of the criminal lawyers on the board assess this (i don’t do criminal law).
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
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The Dunedein said:
I also don’t think he will beat the charges. But as to rolling on Trump, it seems that the ones who are most defiant about not rolling are often the ones who do the flop easiest (i.e., didn’t Cohen say he would take a bullet for DT). I’m curious how some of the criminal lawyers on the board assess this (i don’t do criminal law).
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Everything is predicated on there being something there to flip on. Maybe there is. So much testimony from everything that has been released stand in contrast to that being the case though. The implications of what has been charged but more importantly, what hasn’t been charged with everyone says there wasn’t. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t. It just appears that way at present.

The problem people like me have is that this was sold at the onset as Trump being some Manchuria candidate on behalf of Russia. That meeting in Trump Tower wasn’t it. Stone trying to mine Wikileaks for damaging emails, isn’t it. This stuff is directly parallel with what the Clinton camp was doing with Steele. We saw a weaponized DOJ/FBI attempting what amounts to illegal surveillance of an opposition party’s campaign. They justified it because they felt his policy would pose a threat to National Security. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The problem is, that’s not the way the system is supposed to work. And this isn’t right wing conjecture. This is from testimony by the oversight committees. It’s why the DOJ and FBI have been gutted.

I’m waaaaaay more concerned about the IC stepping outside the boundaries of the chain of command than I am what Trumps team appears to have done at this point. If they can point to something as it was originally sold, then I’ll change my opinion on that. But the reality is shaping up to be that they oversold it.
 
M

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
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DvlDog4WVU said:
Everything is predicated on there being something there to flip on. Maybe there is. So much testimony from everything that has been released stand in contrast to that being the case though. The implications of what has been charged but more importantly, what hasn’t been charged with everyone says there wasn’t. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t. It just appears that way at present.

The problem people like me have is that this was sold at the onset as Trump being some Manchuria candidate on behalf of Russia. That meeting in Trump Tower wasn’t it. Stone trying to mine Wikileaks for damaging emails, isn’t it. This stuff is directly parallel with what the Clinton camp was doing with Steele. We saw a weaponized DOJ/FBI attempting what amounts to illegal surveillance of an opposition party’s campaign. They justified it because they felt his policy would pose a threat to National Security. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The problem is, that’s not the way the system is supposed to work. And this isn’t right wing conjecture. This is from testimony by the oversight committees. It’s why the DOJ and FBI have been gutted.

I’m waaaaaay more concerned about the IC stepping outside the boundaries of the chain of command than I am what Trumps team appears to have done at this point. If they can point to something as it was originally sold, then I’ll change my opinion on that. But the reality is shaping up to be that they oversold it.
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Beauty is in the eye of the behold. The "collusion" by one campaign is accepted, I guess in part because it's been the standard operating procedure in Washington for so long, the other there is blind outrage because it involves a website and a guy that has sought to damage the US (conservative Presidents as well as liberal) in the past.
 
C

countryroads89_rivals

Sophomore
Sep 6, 2013
27,594
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DvlDog4WVU said:
Everything is predicated on there being something there to flip on. Maybe there is. So much testimony from everything that has been released stand in contrast to that being the case though. The implications of what has been charged but more importantly, what hasn’t been charged with everyone says there wasn’t. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t. It just appears that way at present.

The problem people like me have is that this was sold at the onset as Trump being some Manchuria candidate on behalf of Russia. That meeting in Trump Tower wasn’t it. Stone trying to mine Wikileaks for damaging emails, isn’t it. This stuff is directly parallel with what the Clinton camp was doing with Steele. We saw a weaponized DOJ/FBI attempting what amounts to illegal surveillance of an opposition party’s campaign. They justified it because they felt his policy would pose a threat to National Security. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The problem is, that’s not the way the system is supposed to work. And this isn’t right wing conjecture. This is from testimony by the oversight committees. It’s why the DOJ and FBI have been gutted.

I’m waaaaaay more concerned about the IC stepping outside the boundaries of the chain of command than I am what Trumps team appears to have done at this point. If they can point to something as it was originally sold, then I’ll change my opinion on that. But the reality is shaping up to be that they oversold it.
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Damn dude! You’ve went full tarheel. A weaponized DOJ and FBI? LMAO!

If the FBI and DOJ have been “gutted” as you say, are there still “corrupt” agents pursuing trump campaign officials? Help me understand your logic because it sure as hell makes no sense.
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
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countryroads89 said:
Damn dude! You’ve went full tarheel. A weaponized DOJ and FBI? LMAO!

If the FBI and DOJ have been “gutted” as you say, are there still “corrupt” agents pursuing trump campaign officials? Help me understand your logic because it sure as hell makes no sense.
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That’s because you’re a partisan moron. You all have zero explanation for why the DOJ/FBI headsheds have been gutted.

I don’t think Mueller or his team is corrupt. I think the “bad actors” if you can even call them that, have been neutralized and removed. I don’t think the targets they’ve taken down are innocent of what they’ve been indicted for. Reminder on that though is that none of which has been indicted points to the conspiracy you all think occurred. The onion is the Tower Meeting. That’s it, and that isn’t any more or less than what the Clinton campaign did with Steele. You might have Stone trying to get synced up with Wikileaks, but the shear fact of trying says the original hypothesis was incorrect because it means they weren’t all working in concert.

There is no Manchurian candidate scenario. He would have been ousted from the office long ago.

I 100% believe the FISA stuff was 100% predicated on lies, circular intel, and done for the expressed purpose of hedging for what the IC felt was a threat to their international policy by Trump. I think they were working a scenario where he could be controlled. And it has worked.
 
T

TarHeelEer

Freshman
Dec 15, 2002
89,304
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countryroads89 said:
Damn dude! You’ve went full tarheel. A weaponized DOJ and FBI? LMAO!

If the FBI and DOJ have been “gutted” as you say, are there still “corrupt” agents pursuing trump campaign officials? Help me understand your logic because it sure as hell makes no sense.
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Mueller and co wasn't gutted.

At least one swamp thing is still there, Rosenstein. He signed the last FISA. That Trump hasn't got rid of him, I don't know what that says. Perhaps when Barr is confirmed, we'll see. Or perhaps we'll never know.

Trump is a used car salesman. But he's much less of a danger than what was there.
 
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