OL Recruiting

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

He could identify it. He just couldn't coach it.

everywhere you look, there is an idiot running a successful company or program or department head that doesn't know his right hand from his left.. I don't care what experts people think there are involved in analysis, it is just people, and people are mostly stupid.. some are probably even special needs..

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

We may find out soon, as they have a top Olineman cmmitted.

We'll see

everywhere you look, there is an idiot running a successful company or program or department head that doesn't know his right hand from his left.. I don't care what experts people think there are involved in analysis, it is just people, and people are mostly stupid.. some are probably even special needs..

When it comes to people evaluating other people, big misses happen regularly.

 

[oldjar07]

I believe the Badger's highest rated OL guy is Van Lanen (5.8 4*), a RS Soph who is slated second string to Deiter, a 5.5 3* RS Sr.

A 3 star starting over a 4 star? How is that even possible? His mind must be blown..

These kids aren't just some numbers and ratings you can assign them and that's as good as they'll ever be. Each recruit has strengths and weaknesses and each will develop at different rates.

Not to mention that these kids are all over the country playing different levels of competition. They're getting different levels of coaching instruction. A lot of times playing completely different schemes than they will in college. Then you have to translate that to how you think they'll do in college. How do you accurately evaluate that? How do you tell if a lineman in some random school in rural Minnesota has great film vs a player in the south who plays for a top program and goes to camps and dominates, how do you tell which is the better player? 9 times out of 10 I can tell you who is going to be rated higher, but In reality there's a 50/50 chance of what player is going to be better in college.

Some of you put way too much stock into these recruiting rankings. Yeah generally the top players are pretty accurate. The recruits rated 4 or 5 stars are generally the best players coming out of high school.

However even the vast majority of 4 and 5 star recruits aren't ready to start or even play when they get to college right away. Even 4 and 5 star recruits need a lot of development before they're ready to contribute and a lot of times that development never happens.

I think that's something this staff puts a huge premium on is kids they know they'll be able to develop and when there is some 3 star or even lower kids that they take early, there is a reason for it. The criticism of this staff for their recruiting when we haven't even played a game yet and are nowhere close to the signing period is just stupid.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

A 3 star starting over a 4 star? How is that even possible? His mind must be blown..

These kids aren't just some numbers and ratings you can assign them and that's as good as they'll ever be. Each recruit has strengths and weaknesses and each will develop at different rates.

Not to mention that these kids are all over the country playing different levels of competition. They're getting different levels of coaching instruction. A lot of times playing completely different schemes than they will in college. Then you have to translate that to how you think they'll do in college. How do you accurately evaluate that? How do you tell if a lineman in some random school in rural Minnesota has great film vs a player in the south who plays for a top program and goes to camps and dominates, how do you tell which is the better player? 9 times out of 10 I can tell you who is going to be rated higher, but In reality there's a 50/50 chance of what player is going to be better in college.

Some of you put way too much stock into these recruiting rankings. Yeah generally the top players are pretty accurate. The recruits rated 4 or 5 stars are generally the best players coming out of high school.

However even the vast majority of 4 and 5 star recruits aren't ready to start or even play when they get to college right away. Even 4 and 5 star recruits need a lot of development before they're ready to contribute and a lot of times that development never happens.

I think that's something this staff puts a huge premium on is kids they know they'll be able to develop and when there is some 3 star or even lower kids that they take early, there is a reason for it. The criticism of this staff for their recruiting when we haven't even played a game yet and are nowhere close to the signing period is just stupid.

So this staff is able to determine which players will develop, but other people who also evaluate players for a living are just throwing darts?

Which is it, you can tell or it's a 50/50 chance?

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

So this staff is able to determine which players will develop, but other people who also evaluate players for a living are just throwing darts?

Which is it, you can tell or it's a 50/50 chance?

Yes, some people just have more edge in their jobs, you probably just not aware of this.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Yes, some people just have more edge in their jobs, you probably just not aware of this.

So we can expect no misses from this staff. Sweet, even better.

 

[oldjar07]

So this staff is able to determine which players will develop, but other people who also evaluate players for a living are just throwing darts?

Which is it, you can tell or it's a 50/50 chance?

I'm guessing the staff is pretty good at identifying players who will fit well and develop within their system. I think this staff prioritizes other things ahead of just raw talent like if they will fit well within the system, do they fit the culture and will they buy in. I think this approach makes more sense than recruiting a group of talented players but they don't fit the system or play well together. Probably why you see teams who do recruit very well but end up having 6-6 seasons every year because they can't develop that talent.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

I'm guessing the staff is pretty good at identifying players who will fit well and develop within their system. I think this staff prioritizes other things ahead of just raw talent like if they will fit well within the system, do they fit the culture and will they buy in. I think this approach makes more sense than recruiting a group of talented players but they don't fit the system or play well together. Probably why you see teams who do recruit very well but end up having 6-6 seasons every year because they can't develop that talent.

And like I said about Iowa, Northwestern and Wisconsin....just as many 5 and 6 win seasons when you value fit and culture first and talent 2nd.

 

[kaz36_rivals189319]

If the Huskers ever want to win a national championship, they need to start pulling in top 10 classes. The last 10 national champions had an average recruiting ranking of a little over 6 in thei 5 prior classes. It takes coaching too, but you aren't going to do it without highly rated recruits.

 

[SoFL Husker]

So we can expect no misses from this staff. Sweet, even better.

Taco wants to be the guy who said Frost sucks too, after the fact, when the fact is Frost has been dealt a garbage hand left over by the guys Tuco sucked up to like a carp. Either that, or everybody sucks in his book, except for Ohio State. GBR

 

[Inigo Montoyas Father]

Taco wants to be the guy who said Frost sucks too, after the fact, when the fact is Frost has been dealt a garbage hand left over by the guys Tuco sucked up to like a carp. Either that, or everybody sucks in his book, except for Ohio State. GBR

I don’t necessarily think that’s what he was saying.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

I don’t necessarily think that’s what he was saying.

No worries. It’s after breakfast so he is just drunk.

 

[SoFL Husker]

I don’t necessarily think that’s what he was saying.

BS. If he thinks we are going to start bringing in 4 and 5 star talent right away, he's living in fantasyland. That has never been the blueprint at Nebraska. Sure, TO got there eventually, but we were a Top 5 program back then.

Today, we are an aging blue blood trying to resurrect itself. We haven't won anything of significance in decades, the roster sucked, the strength and conditioning sucked, player development sucked, and Frost has to right this ship. Gonna take time.

 

[SoFL Husker]

No worries. It’s after breakfast so he is just drunk.

I resemble that remark.

At least consider me a functional alcoholic. I work my *** off, but at 5pm, all bets are off.

 

[SoFL Husker]

If the Huskers ever want to win a national championship, they need to start pulling in top 10 classes. The last 10 national champions had an average recruiting ranking of a little over 6 in thei 5 prior classes. It takes coaching too, but you aren't going to do it without highly rated recruits.

What was UCF's avg star rating last year?

Maybe 2-3 starish?

Those 2 and 3 star guys kicked the **** out of Auburn.

If anything, Frost has already proven he can develop/coach up at places that aren't going to bring in 4 and 5 star guys right off the bat. In that sense, he has a fighting chance at Nebraska right now.

 

[Inigo Montoyas Father]

No worries. It’s after breakfast so he is just drunk.

Not sure about that. No music videos posted.

 

[kaz36_rivals189319]

What was UCF's avg star rating last year?

Maybe 2-3 starish?

Those 2 and 3 star guys kicked the **** out of Auburn.

If anything, Frost has already proven he can develop/coach up at places that aren't going to bring in 4 and 5 star guys right off the bat. In that sense, he has a fighting chance at Nebraska right now.

UCF didn't win a national championship last year.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

BS. If he thinks we are going to start bringing in 4 and 5 star talent right away, he's living in fantasyland. That has never been the blueprint at Nebraska. Sure, TO got there eventually, but we were a Top 5 program back then.

Today, we are an aging blue blood trying to resurrect itself. The roster shows decades of neglect, the strength and conditioning sucked, player development sucked, and Frost has to right this ship. Gonna take time.

You’re still pissed about the Kleenex thing so it clouds your ability to read anything I write with any sort of objectivity.

If you read what I said and not what you think you want me to be saying, you will see that I said I don’t understand the need to commit a bunch of low 3 and 2 star kids, that aren’t going to commit to anywhere else, until your sure you can’t get a more talented player first. I have provided plenty of evidence that shows how recruiting the “Wisconsin, Iowa and Northwestern way” puts a ceiling on your end of season results.

This has less to do with Frost and more to do with recruiting to culture and fit than recruiting talent. I would rather win with Christian Peter and Lawrence Phillips than hope some 3 star kid develops into the player I want them to be. I would rather take a chance I can get a talented kid with an attitude to fit into my system and culture than take a less talented kid because he does.

Now pour yourself another cocktail.

 

[SoFL Husker]

You’re still pissed about the Kleenex thing so it clouds your ability to read anything I write with any sort of objectivity.

If you read what I said and not what you think you want me to be saying, you will see that I said I don’t understand the need to commit a bunch of low 3 and 2 star kids, that aren’t going to commit to anywhere else, until your sure you can’t get a more talented player first. I have provided plenty of evidence that shows how recruiting the “Wisconsin, Iowa and Northwestern way” puts a ceiling on your end of season results.

This has less to do with Frost and more to do with recruiting to culture and fit than recruiting talent. I would rather win with Christian Peter and Lawrence Phillips than hope some 3 star kid develops into the player I want them to be. I would rather take a chance I can get a talented kid with an attitude to fit into my system and culture than take a less talented kid because he does.

Now pour yourself another cocktail.

That's an interesting point. If you are saying this staff is "settling" for recruits early, well, I have no idea if that is the case. I don't have a crystal ball.

I do have Scott's resume. It's pretty good.

I will say this, if you think Nebraska is in a position to be "choosy" and get verbals from top 4 and 5 star talent, at every position, I call BS. That much I am assured.

Now, another Makers. Hard stop at 10pm EST. GBR

 

[huskerfan1414]

That’s because in the 90’s we could just shoot up all of our OL/DL with juice to get them to the size we wanted as well as adding a little extra ‘rage’.

Proof.
And no one else did, correct?

 

[SoFL Husker]

Proof.
And no one else did, correct?

The fact is, TO's OL and DL were typically redshirt Jrs and Srs.

Fully developed kids.

You guys can argue about semantics and the nuances of great CFB teams, but there has to be a foundation in Nebraska.

GBR

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Good God can we please stop comparing today's football to 1970's and 80's football. It isn't even close to the same game. Recruiting has changed, kids have changed, very little is even similar.

I recently watched the 1991 Nebraska- Oklahoma game. I think there were about 25 passes thrown in the game, combined. Yes the weather was awful, yes the teams were known to have running attacks, but Holy Crap the QB play was horrendous, Keithen McCant was like 9-12 and every throw was behind the receiver and would have been picked off in today's game. The linebackers were 250 pounds and slow. The safeties were slow and white. ha ha ha.

Just stop with it all....please.

 

[oldjar07]

And like I said about Iowa, Northwestern and Wisconsin....just as many 5 and 6 win seasons when you value fit and culture first and talent 2nd.

We've recruited better than all of those teams. If we recruit mostly high 3 stars with a lot of 4 stars thrown in, and with great coaching we're going to have a lot of success.

It's funny that all the Riley fanboys want us to start winning national championships right away. We were never going to come close to playing in a conference championship game under Riley, let alone winning a national title. We won 4 games last year. We're about as far as you can get from a national title.

I do agree we should be aiming for national titles. That should be the goal. However I think we should get there by building a program and a system that works rather than using shady recruiting tactics to get there.

 

[inWV]

I will say this. Frost has not coach a down of a FB game as HC in Lincoln. I’m not getting my undies in a twist as to whether he should be swinging for the fences on OL recruits. In July before the season starts.

 

[bshirt73]

We've recruited better than all of those teams. If we recruit mostly high 3 stars with a lot of 4 stars thrown in, and with great coaching we're going to have a lot of success.

It's funny that all the Riley fanboys want us to start winning national championships right away. We were never going to come close to playing in a conference championship game under Riley, let alone winning a national title. We won 4 games last year. We're about as far as you can get from a national title.

I do agree we should be aiming for national titles. That should be the goal. However I think we should get there by building a program and a system that works rather than using shady recruiting tactics to get there.

Yes, it is humorous. The Smiling Mike apologists are now demanding instant success......lol.....par for the course.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

We've recruited better than all of those teams. If we recruit mostly high 3 stars with a lot of 4 stars thrown in, and with great coaching we're going to have a lot of success.

It's funny that all the Riley fanboys want us to start winning national championships right away. We were never going to come close to playing in a conference championship game under Riley, let alone winning a national title. We won 4 games last year. We're about as far as you can get from a national title.

I do agree we should be aiming for national titles. That should be the goal. However I think we should get there by building a program and a system that works rather than using shady recruiting tactics to get there.

Good gravy man you are reaching.

First of all the topic of building a national championship team and recruiting players to meet that goal. No one is talking about winning a title this year or next. We are talking about the 2019 class and what appears to be the strategy for that class. Although it appears the plan is to recruit only players “with character” going forward.

Secondly who said anything about shady recruiting tactics? We were talking about recruiting higher ranked players not paying to get them. FFS.

Lastly, why do you consistently bring up Riley. It seems it is you who can’t let go of the past. That sir is a you problem.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Yes, it is humorous. The Smiling Mike apologists are now demanding instant success......lol.....par for the course.

And in pipes Scrappy Doo. The guy who hasn’t had an original thought in years. Just rides in on the coat tails of others with a yeah me too. Ha ha ha

Again not one person is “demanding” instant success. A simple conversation about recruiting strategies and a discussion about what type of players it will take to eventually play for one. Nothing more.

 

[bshirt73]

And in pipes Scrappy Doo. The guy who hasn’t had an original thought in years. Just rides in on the coat tails of others with a yeah me too. Ha ha ha

Again not one person is “demanding” instant success. A simple conversation about recruiting strategies and a discussion about what type of players it will take to eventually play for one. Nothing more.

Isn't that "you" claiming SF needs to win at least 9 games his 1st year? Even with the brutal schedule? Even with your mighty Smiling Mike only winning 4 games last year?

Your double standards are endless.

 

[WoodRiverJennings]

Gotta love those Bo-bots.

 

[kaz36_rivals189319]

Isn't that "you" claiming SF needs to win at least 9 games his 1st year? Even with the brutal schedule? Even with your mighty Smiling Mike only winning 4 games last year?

Your double standards are endless.

You need to get a new shtick. There's nobody that wants the joke that was Mike Riley back at Nebraska. We are in pretty damned good hands with Frost. What's being discussed here is the path back to a national title and what it will eventually take to get there.

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

So we can expect no misses from this staff. Sweet, even better.

Yeah, this staff is going to miss too. They are not gods, nor do they walk on water. At least not yet, even though some fans already treat them as such. I think it's good to have a healthy dose of objectivity, but a lot of guys are going to fight you on it.

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

Taco wants to be the guy who said Frost sucks too, after the fact, when the fact is Frost has been dealt a garbage hand left over by the guys Tuco sucked up to like a carp. Either that, or everybody sucks in his book, except for Ohio State. GBR

Great post, spot on!

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

Yes, it is humorous. The Smiling Mike apologists are now demanding instant success......lol.....par for the course.

Great Post, spot on!

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Isn't that "you" claiming SF needs to win at least 9 games his 1st year? Even with the brutal schedule? Even with your mighty Smiling Mike only winning 4 games last year?

Your double standards are endless.

Nope. Just more fake news. I have repeatedly said I EXPECT this team to win 8 regular season games. That means looking at the schedule and predicting wins and losses based on matchups. I have also said that the minimum expectations for Nebraska football should be playing for the conference titles in most years. That doesn’t mean it has to happen in year one.

What you don’t seem to be able to do is understand the difference between expectations and “demands”.

Now I have called people out, maybe you, I don’t remember, for setting lower expectations based on the talent level. Going into 2017 very few expected to lose to Northern Illinois and finish with 4 wins. The expectations were to at least match the previous year’s win total.

I have also pointed out hypocrisy in people saying Frost should get time to bring in players to fit his system, when we expected Riley to adjust his scheme to fit the talent on the team. Or when people would say there were “toxins” left over from Pelini and that would be poo poo’d as excuses but for Frost the soft team he inherited is a valid excuse and takes time to fix.

As far as Riley goes, I had the same expectations for him. Most all of my defending of the previous staff was based on philosophy. I believe you can win at Nebraska with a WCO or the offense Riley and Langsdorf ran. The offense failed because of how the team was coached, not what offense philosophy they ran. Riley failed because of how he and Devaney managed the football operation at Nebraska not because of the offensive philosophy.

So sir, it is not just me with the supposed double standards.

 

[Harry Caray]

What was UCF's avg star rating last year?

Maybe 2-3 starish?

Those 2 and 3 star guys kicked the **** out of Auburn.

If anything, Frost has already proven he can develop/coach up at places that aren't going to bring in 4 and 5 star guys right off the bat. In that sense, he has a fighting chance at Nebraska right now.

I wouldn't say they kicked the **** out of Auburn, it was a close game and Auburn actually finished with more yards. And it was a meaningless bowl game for Auburn, I don't think they were too motivated to play a mid-major school after coming within one game of making the playoff.

If UCF had played a full Power 5 conference schedule with those 2 and 3 star guys, they probably would have been .500 in conference play. I think Frost did a great job there, but history shows that you eventually need the 4 and 5 star guys if you want to compete for a National Championship. Just look at Clemson, Dabo was doing just OK until he started pulling in Top 10-15 recruiting classes, and since then they've been in the National Title hunt every year. I also remember Pelini saying he would "put his own stars" on players, yet we saw what happened when he no longer had Callahan's recruits.

I don't expect Frost to pull in those type of recruiting classes right away, but 2-3 years from now he needs to be. There are too many other great coaches in this league to think he's going to outcoach them with inferior talent.

 

[bshirt73]

Nope. Just more fake news. I have repeatedly said I EXPECT this team to win 8 regular season games. That means looking at the schedule and predicting wins and losses based on matchups. I have also said that the minimum expectations for Nebraska football should be playing for the conference titles in most years. That doesn’t mean it has to happen in year one.

What you don’t seem to be able to do is understand the difference between expectations and “demands”.

Now I have called people out, maybe you, I don’t remember, for setting lower expectations based on the talent level. Going into 2017 very few expected to lose to Northern Illinois and finish with 4 wins. The expectations were to at least match the previous year’s win total.

I have also pointed out hypocrisy in people saying Frost should get time to bring in players to fit his system, when we expected Riley to adjust his scheme to fit the talent on the team. Or when people would say there were “toxins” left over from Pelini and that would be poo poo’d as excused but for Frost the soft team he inherited is a valid excuse and takes time to fix.

As far as Riley goes, I had the same expectations for him. Most all of my defending of the previous staff was based on philosophy. I believe you can win at Nebraska with a WCO or the offense Riley and Langsdorf ran. The offense failed because of how the team was coached, not what offense philosophy they ran. Riley failed because of how he and Delaney managed the football operation at Nebraska not because of the offensive philosophy.

So sir, it is not just me with the supposed double standards.

Good post Tuco.

I seriously doubt NU will ever have any consistent success with a WCO, Beaver-ball, fluff-ball offense. Especially since being in the Big10. But it's possible I suppose. Highly unlikely....but possible. HCSF states quite clearly that without a good running game you have nothing. Of course, we can agree to disagree. No biggie.

Yes, there is a double standard with expectations. But the brutal schedule we'll have in SF's year one simply can't be denied.

So, I disagree Tuco. The offensively philosophy does matter imo. But who knows? It's going to be a wild ride compadre.

GBR!!

 

[bshirt73]

I wouldn't say they kicked the **** out of Auburn, it was a close game and Auburn actually finished with more yards. And it was a meaningless bowl game for Auburn, I don't think they were too motivated to play a mid-major school after coming within one game of making the playoff.

If UCF had played a full Power 5 conference schedule with those 2 and 3 star guys, they probably would have been .500 in conference play. I think Frost did a great job there, but history shows that you eventually need the 4 and 5 star guys if you want to compete for a National Championship. Just look at Clemson, Dabo was doing just OK until he started pulling in Top 10-15 recruiting classes, and since then they've been in the National Title hunt every year. I also remember Pelini saying he would "put his own stars" on players, yet we saw what happened when he no longer had Callahan's recruits.

I don't expect Frost to pull in those type of recruiting classes right away, but 2-3 years from now he needs to be. There are too many other great coaches in this league to think he's going to outcoach them with inferior talent.

Hmmm.....Bo won 9 or 10 games for seven consecutive years. Clownahan's recruits did that for seven years??? Also, with his supposed great, great recruiting.....how did he have two losing seasons in four years?

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Good post Tuco.

I seriously doubt NU will ever have any consistent success with a WCO, Beaver-ball, fluff-ball offense. Especially since being in the Big10. But it's possible I suppose. Highly unlikely....but possible. HCSF states quite clearly that without a good running game you have nothing. Of course, we can agree to disagree. No biggie.

Yes, there is a double standard with expectations. But the brutal schedule we'll have in SF's year one simply can't be denied.

So, I disagree Tuco. The offensively philosophy does matter imo. But who knows? It's going to be a wild ride compadre.

GBR!!

The double standards have more to do with the popularity of the hire than schedule or any other factors. I think @jflores used Dino Babers as an example previously so let’s use him again. If Moos had hired Babers, I don’t believe as many people would be making excuses for soft team and lack of talent. Nor would they be giving him the slack to bring in his own players. Don’t get me wrong, I get it, we always give our own the benefit of the doubt and a extra leeway. We just need to own it and say that is why we have the double standard.

I understand what Frost says about the run game. I think he chooses his words carefully because Nebraska fan likes to hear that. But we’ve had this discussion before and I have provided you statistical evidence that shows Frost’s offense is dependent on the passing game to make the run game successful. As the numbers show, he is about 52/48 run/pass and runs about 15% more plays when his team is <14 points ahead or behind. Then with a >15 point lead, he takes the air out, runs the ball and runs fewer plays.

Running the ball is important but that doesn’t mean we will be a heavy run team.

As far as a passing offense goes, Leach has shown you can run a pass first offense in Texas or far Eastern Washington State. Joe Tiller ran a pass first offense at Purdue. Michigan and Michigan St both run a form of WCO.

Again many factors led to Riley’s lack of success at Nebraska it wasn’t simply his offensive philosophy.

Good chat. GBR

 

[inWV]

As far as a passing offense goes, Leach has shown you can run a pass first offense in Texas or far Eastern Washington State. Joe Tiller ran a pass first offense at Purdue. Michigan and Michigan St both run a form of WCO.

Good chat. GBR

But one (even you) could argue that NU could develop a pass first offense and win at the clip that of the Pirate in Pullman (8-9 games), but that would not be good enough in Lincoln. And yes, people will be surprised at how much the ball will be in the air with Frost as coach. His offense is flexible, with many RPO plays and we have a talented receiving group. But we will hopefully more effectively than we did last year. Just now on the Sharpe and Benning podcast, I learned that Dahrran Diedrick in 2001 outrushed the entire 2017 group of NU backs.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

But one (even you) could argue that NU could develop a pass first offense and win at the clip that of the Pirate in Pullman (8-9 games), but that would not be good enough in Lincoln. And yes, people will be surprised at how much the ball will be in the air with Frost as coach. His offense is flexible, with many RPO plays and we have a talented receiving group. But we will hopefully more effectively than we did last year. Just now on the Sharpe and Benning podcast, I learned that Dahrran Diedrick in 2001 outrushed the entire 2017 group of NU backs.

Leach was an extreme example. Riley's offense, on paper, is not designed to be a 60% pass offense. That was due to his failures in other aspect of coaching that led to the poor results. When his offense was most successful in Corvallis he was as balanced as can be.