Nobody is saying there's not room for improvement but to assume we're gonna lose games strictly because of the OL is dumb.
OL hate.
- Thread starter KurtRambis4
- Start date
I would love to peruse all the message boards and see how many are down on their offensive lines. I am not a hevesy fan but I have heard this week that LSU, Bama, OM, TA&M, FSU, MSU, KY, USM, BYU, OSU, IN, AU, TX, USC, FL and! Mich, VT, WV, all have OL problems. So by my best guess the entire West, laden with the most talented recruits in the country are aall experiencing OL problems.
Actually it was worse than what I posted before. 19 of our 50 rushing attempts went for 2 yards or less. 2 yards or less vs an FCS squad. Our YPC were only good because we ripped off some big ones.
Msubulldogfan1 but to assume we're gonna lose games strictly because of the OL is dumb.[/QUOTE said:
Well bully, I'm gonna fill you in on a secret. Anytime a team or individual has a high ypc average, it's bc they ripped off some long runs.
Well I mean yeah,
Captain Obvious, big runs will do that.
Ill take 60+% of 3 yards or more on run plays all day.
Captain Obvious, big runs will do that.
Ill take 60+% of 3 yards or more on run plays all day.
That's the thing, imo everybody had waayy to high of expectations for the first game. So it looks worse than it really is imo.
A great RB can make for a great OLine. Kylin Hill has better vision than Aeris at this point.
Several times early in the game Aeris ran directly into the pile or into traffic, while Kylin made one cut and found a running lane.
We also missed a few LB blitz pickups early in the game as well which prevented a couple of really big plays.
Those kinds of mistakes can be corrected and I'm betting they will be. Martinas Rankin looked lost for half a season last year before it clicked. Last Saturday he was outstanding. I'm betting the others will improve as well.
Several times early in the game Aeris ran directly into the pile or into traffic, while Kylin made one cut and found a running lane.
We also missed a few LB blitz pickups early in the game as well which prevented a couple of really big plays.
Those kinds of mistakes can be corrected and I'm betting they will be. Martinas Rankin looked lost for half a season last year before it clicked. Last Saturday he was outstanding. I'm betting the others will improve as well.
There's some talent out there. Reese should get much better with experience and hopefully Jenkins settles in.
Everybody judges our OL based on the sec, so are basically going to complain if we don't consistently have a top 20ish OL in the country.
But we have been successful putting up better offense than you would expect with our OL play, mainly because mullem is a good coach with a good system and we will put up points and yards as long as our OL isn't completely overmatched, which even with the bad years, is still ~6-8 games a year.
No, but I do expect to see an SEC O-Line impose its will on a FCS D-Line and that did not happen Saturday. This O-Line is not going to be terrible, but if they don't play better vs LSU, those 2 yard carries become negative yardage plays. Those low snaps turn into sacks and interceptions.
All that said, adding some option and misdirection will slow opposing defenses down and make them think and make our O-Line look better. We weren't a great offensive line against CSU, but we may be better than we appear once the playbook gets opened up.
All that said, adding some option and misdirection will slow opposing defenses down and make them think and make our O-Line look better. We weren't a great offensive line against CSU, but we may be better than we appear once the playbook gets opened up.
Holy ****....you actually think it is a good thing to have 40% of your run attempts vs an FCS team that you outclass by a mile athletically go for 2 yards or less? Do you not get that you should not expect even that result with the same effort when you play teams that can more closely match your talent and athleticism?
Our line has to play MUCH better going forward.
Our line has to play MUCH better going forward.
Who led you to believe "that the OL will be a strength of this team?" I heard that our rushing offense should be better .. BUT that was due to better RBs and addition of Kylin Hill, NOT the OL.
Gotta link?
We should have seen our O-line blow those much smaller, less-talented FCS d-linemen off the ball by yards damn near every rushing play. We should have seen our O-line give our QB's all day to throw nearly every play that was not a blitz.
It is a HUGE mistake to take the good stats you see from a game vs a cupcake as an indicator of how good we are. The scales were so far in a favor that even a crappy game by our guys would result in a blowout.
But you can damn sure consider bad stats, because you just shouldn't have those kinds of bad stats vs a cupcake. We're not talking about false-starts, and that kind of stat. But when our o-line fails to block well enough to get more than 2 yards on 40% of our rushing attempts on that FCS team (not counting scoring runs), that should be deeply troubling to you.
You're not only "not troubled", but seem to think what you saw was a good sign. We may well yet find this line gets it's act together (and we all hope this), but let's not go out of our way to put, "perfume-on-a-pig" just because we bleed maroon & white.
We had 50 rushing attempts for 281 yards, with nearly 40% of those attempts resulting in 2 yds or less.
I'd feel much, much better about our O-line if we had gotten 200 yards rushing with 10% of those 50 attempts 2 yards or less. See what I mean?
It is a HUGE mistake to take the good stats you see from a game vs a cupcake as an indicator of how good we are. The scales were so far in a favor that even a crappy game by our guys would result in a blowout.
But you can damn sure consider bad stats, because you just shouldn't have those kinds of bad stats vs a cupcake. We're not talking about false-starts, and that kind of stat. But when our o-line fails to block well enough to get more than 2 yards on 40% of our rushing attempts on that FCS team (not counting scoring runs), that should be deeply troubling to you.
You're not only "not troubled", but seem to think what you saw was a good sign. We may well yet find this line gets it's act together (and we all hope this), but let's not go out of our way to put, "perfume-on-a-pig" just because we bleed maroon & white.
We had 50 rushing attempts for 281 yards, with nearly 40% of those attempts resulting in 2 yds or less.
I'd feel much, much better about our O-line if we had gotten 200 yards rushing with 10% of those 50 attempts 2 yards or less. See what I mean?
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Guess we probably should have had Jenkins practicing at center during the spring instead of Rankin. Think Moon had been practicing at center during the spring. Now, all of a sudden when the season arrives, Hevesy decides to put Jenkins at center.
They're definitely the weakest link, and have been. maybe DB's is a close second just because we don't know about them yet.
we should be able to recruit, and develop Olinemen. We should have plenty to choose from, but We don't. They always seem scraped together. Most football people say the game is won or lost in the trenches, on both sides of the ball.
we should be able to recruit, and develop Olinemen. We should have plenty to choose from, but We don't. They always seem scraped together. Most football people say the game is won or lost in the trenches, on both sides of the ball.
Meh...they didn't look good the first few series and I think that's what people form most of their impression on, and they're understandably pessimistic considering how many seasons the OL has held us back in the past. I don't think even 1% of the people on the board can really get anything meaningful from watching OL play against an FCS team, unless we have a particular player that's just a disaster and completely unready. Even ignoring the fact that we were playing an FCS team, I think "dominating" is just harder to see with zone blocking and a lot of people are still looking to see guys get blown off the LOS.
I would have liked to see them dominate the first few series. But it's also a group with a guy playing center for the first time, a RsFR RT playing his first collegiate game, and a guard with limited experience who is coming off an injury. And the final stats looked pretty solid.
To my untrained eye, the OL just left me in a wait and see mode. I'm not really any more concerned than I was one week ago, nor do I have the warm and fuzzies. They didn't look like a disaster, and I'm not sure how much more they will struggle against better competition or how many mistakes they will clean up with reps.
I do think if this line improves as much over the course of the year as last year's did, then this will end up being a good Oline. I'm not sure if that's realistic or not, and even if it is, I'm not sure it will help us in time for LSU or UGA, which are two teams I think we could beat if we had a good OL.
Interesting that you include "3-yards gained" as a positive. 3 yards gained vs an over-matched FCS team is not good.
Let's disregard the, "gray area" of greater than 2 but less than 4 for a quick analysis. Vs an FCS d-line, we had 20 plays of 2 yards or less, vs 27 of 4 yards or more. Even when we take away the 2-yard TD runs, we are left with 18 vs 27 (and that's 45 of the 48 attempts). That is not good, my friend.
Let's disregard the, "gray area" of greater than 2 but less than 4 for a quick analysis. Vs an FCS d-line, we had 20 plays of 2 yards or less, vs 27 of 4 yards or more. Even when we take away the 2-yard TD runs, we are left with 18 vs 27 (and that's 45 of the 48 attempts). That is not good, my friend.
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Last year, bama vs UTC
Average YPC = 5.3
Sacks given up - 3.
Yalls expectations for what happens when an SEC team plays a mediocre team is waaaayyyy off.
I don't quite think you understand how when a team runs 8 plays for the entire game, doesn't run its true offense and doesn't nothing to throw a defense off, it's not gonna look great.
Average YPC = 5.3
Sacks given up - 3.
Yalls expectations for what happens when an SEC team plays a mediocre team is waaaayyyy off.
I don't quite think you understand how when a team runs 8 plays for the entire game, doesn't run its true offense and doesn't nothing to throw a defense off, it's not gonna look great.
I'm done arguing tho. It's apparent that only 8 yards per carry, no less...and no pass rush whatsoever allowed will satisfy dumbass state fans.
Just another point .. Mississippi State played ~75 players on Sat. Way more than I can ever recall seeing play in a 1st game. Meanwhile, OM played few if any on their 2nd team.
I thought OL play was B- at best and our WR unit was weak too. Basically i saw what i expected, but our guys now have some tape on how and where they sucked so maybe they can clean it up
I think a C+ is what I give. They weren't great but weren't bad either. If Fitz keeps a couple more reads which he should have (although I'm sure instructed not to keep many reads) than I'm sure the ypc average goes up and less short or negative yardage plays occur.
You are dramatically over-simplifying. There is a big difference between a team that averages 6 yards-per-carry with a median of 4, vs a team that averages 6 yards-per-carry with a median of 2.5.
Consider this. Would you rather have:
A) 200 yards on 37 carries (5.71 avg ypc) on 1 x 80, 2 x 15, 4 x 10, 20 x 2 & 10 x 1
or
B) 200 yards on 37 carries (also 5.71 ypc) on 1 x 35, 1 x 15, 12 x 5, 20 x 4 & 5 x 2.
Both average the same, but if you look at the median you get a clearer picture. A is a drive-killer. B is a drive sustain-er. A is indicative of a back who managed to break through the line just 7 times, then abuse the LB's & DB's on those 7 plays, but the o-line struggling. B is indicative of an o-line dominating the LOS.
The more sustained drives, the greater the chance of scoring more points. Generally speaking, a higher median rush-per-attempt is more important than an average ypc.
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Just like all the other SEC teams did this weekend?
So we can only look at bad stats, and not good. Gotcha.
aGAIN, I thought we did well Saturday. I'm not comparing it to how we'll play vs Alabama.
How many teams that played FCS teams ran the ball with a 90% success rate this past weekend ("success" being 3 yards or more)?
To me,
if we can get 3 yards a carry, that would set us up for an extremely manageable 3 and short which opens up our offense a TON. Not to mention that it gives us the possibility of 4th and short, which I feel very confident in Fitz getting nearly 100%.
if we can get 3 yards a carry, that would set us up for an extremely manageable 3 and short which opens up our offense a TON. Not to mention that it gives us the possibility of 4th and short, which I feel very confident in Fitz getting nearly 100%.
i'm more worried about his timing and ability to hit wide receivers. I wasn't impressed with WR play. Seems as much as our QBs run and scramble away from plays you would think our WRs would make an attempt to get open once the play breaks down.
And here we go with personal insults. Why? You are the one who is putting way too much emphasis on YPC than is smart. YPC is not the best stat when analyzing the o-line's performance. It's not even close to the best stat. It gives way too much credit to the o-line for runs that become extra long. The line should be judged on opening holes that allow for those 3.5+ yard carries. After that, it's the RB who is responsible for the rest of those yards.
You should judge an o-line's run-blocking way more on how many times they opened up holes big enough to get at least 3.5 yards vs how many times they allowed the d-line to stuff a run. On pass-blocking, you should consider how many times they allowed undue pressure on their QB within a couple or so seconds.
And in every case, you should consider the competition. It matters.
You should judge an o-line's run-blocking way more on how many times they opened up holes big enough to get at least 3.5 yards vs how many times they allowed the d-line to stuff a run. On pass-blocking, you should consider how many times they allowed undue pressure on their QB within a couple or so seconds.
And in every case, you should consider the competition. It matters.
Conversion rate on 3rd & 4 is usually less than 50%. Get into a lot of 3rd & 4's on a drive and see how many times that drive stalls.
I've never bought into any hype around our OL this year. Our OL had only 3 returning players with any starting experience --- a whopping 27 total starts prior to this season, and one of those guys was moved to center where he had zero starts.
How could anyone look at this OL and think it would be better than 2016? I could understand the argument that it has more potential, but early in the season I think we'll experience plenty of growing pains.
How could anyone look at this OL and think it would be better than 2016? I could understand the argument that it has more potential, but early in the season I think we'll experience plenty of growing pains.
It's not "assuming we will lose", it's saying our o-line did not look good vs an over-matched opponent, and if they don't play a lot better than that vs the better d-lines we will face, we stand a much greater chance of losing.
As others have said, the vast majority of games are won or lost in the trenches. We can still win games with a poor o-line performance if our defense dominates the other team's offense even more, etc. But in all likelihood, we need our o-line to play a helluva lot better going forward if we want to have a really good chance of winning.
As others have said, the vast majority of games are won or lost in the trenches. We can still win games with a poor o-line performance if our defense dominates the other team's offense even more, etc. But in all likelihood, we need our o-line to play a helluva lot better going forward if we want to have a really good chance of winning.
Can't just say judge em on how many 3 yard runs, because it's up to the RB to see the hole. If he misses it and it ends up being a negative play...that's on the RB, not the OL. I'll remind Aries openly said he missed several holes that opened up. Fitz handing the ball off when he should have kept it.
I start with personal insults because state fans piss me off when they start bitching about the OL after a 49-0 win in the first game of the season. Even after I provided many examples on how this performance is very typical for an SEC team vs smiling at competition.
Yet, you refuse to acknowledge any of these factors.