OK you Bennys - question

Kybluedude

Heisman
Nov 19, 2005
9,398
12,075
0
With all the discussion of Cal needing to change or update his offense how much difference is involved?

Would his DDMO would need major structural changes or just some minor philosophical personnel and spacing changes?
 

Son_Of_Saul

Hall of Famer
Dec 7, 2007
45,697
100,950
113
Let's start off with having two guys on the court at all times that can shoot. It looks like Cal is heading in the right direciton by retaining Allen and adding Grady.

Cal's best offensive gems were in seasons when he had legitimate perimeter shooters - guys like Lamb, Monk, Knight, Sestina, Quickley, etc. - who opened the spacing up and allowed guys like Fox, Maxey, Liggins, Miller, and Teague to attack the rim.

The problem with this last campaign is that we had neither shooters nor play making, rim-attacking guards.

There will be no offensive flow until we get guys in here who can space and drive.
 

jcmc225

All-American
Nov 12, 2015
3,602
6,133
0
I think the staff does a good job coaching players when it comes to individual skills, fundamentals and premises needed to succeed, but his offensive philosophy is entirely revolved around players taking those skills and doing it on their own, ala the NBA so he struggles to adjust at all to anything in game.

UK has to have a point guard who can penetrate. Entire offense revolves around that, i think thats pretty obvious. He also needs a big who can score on the block when the team cant penetrate, so he can sorta maneuver through the inability to make changes in game... just feed the post and go to work, or read a double, pass out.... know your options. Idk that he really HAS to change that much other than the level/type of players hes recruiting. I personally think his philosophy would be fine
 
Jan 29, 2003
18,120
12,185
0
He runs the same basic offense as Kansas and Duke. Cal's offense is a little more structured than Duke, a little less than Kansas. UNC isn't similar - except in that it's even more old school, less reliant on spacing and threes than the others.

All 4 can win with the right personnel. I'd like to see Cal more meaningfully embrace the 3, but his offense doesn't need to be overhauled. It needs tinkering.
 

jrpross_rivals

Heisman
Feb 21, 2008
17,565
36,120
113
I think the biggest thing is changing the type of personnel they bring in. There needs to be more emphasis on skill and basketball IQ and less on length and athleticism. More Herro’s and SGA’s and fewer Whitney’s and Boston’s. There are only so many plays you can run for athletes that can’t play basketball.
 

jcmc225

All-American
Nov 12, 2015
3,602
6,133
0
May I add same guy needs a ball screen in backcourt to get to the 35 ft range to pick up the dribble. Unacceptable for any D1 PG but specifically at a place that can select who they want to run the point like UK.
Hahahahaha
 

Jamal Mercer

Heisman
Feb 7, 2008
10,805
23,537
0
What needs to happen is he needs to make the players GOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

KentuckyCat420

Heisman
Sep 16, 2006
39,106
29,086
72
With all the discussion of Cal needing to change or update his offense how much difference is involved?

Would his DDMO would need major structural changes or just some minor philosophical personnel and spacing changes?
You would first need to acknowledge that the DDMO is not an actual system that’s ever been run.

It’s basically just what he called his offense when he had Derrick Rose running it, who was particularly good at dribbling and driving the basketball.
 
Dec 30, 2002
10,641
20,618
0
What kind of offense should we run then? And don’t just say like so and so team
Cal needs to run an offense that actually fits the personnel that he has on the team at any given year.

One of Cal's biggest problems is continually trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by putting players in roles they absolutely were not built for, do not have the skillset to be successful in, yet are forced to try and play in an offense that they can't run due to their own deficiencies in the roles Cal has forced them to try and play anyway.
 

BigBlueFan19

All-Conference
Apr 16, 2018
2,039
2,907
0
Cal needs to run an offense that actually fits the personnel that he has on the team at any given year.

One of Cal's biggest problems is continually trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by putting players in roles they absolutely were not built for, do not have the skillset to be successful in, yet are forced to try and play in an offense that they can't run due to their own deficiencies in the roles Cal has forced them to try and play anyway.

What offense would you have ran with the 9-16 team?
 
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Dec 30, 2002
10,641
20,618
0
What offense would you have ran with the 9-16 team?
I would have ran a 4 man out motion offense with the 3 best shooters on the perimeter and Jackson in the low post.
Sarr. Allen, Toppin with Mintz at point against man to man defense.

Zone offense totally different. 3/1/1 or 2/1/2 offense depending on zone.

It doesn't make any difference what offense I would run. Cal gets $9M a year to implement ANY offense that gives you an opportunity to get a good shot in the half court game.

But, half court should be just part of your offense. You have to have fast break points, secondary break shots, offensive rebounding points, free throws, absolutely have to have a formidable 3 point game. Those are parts of the offense that Cal has pretty much abandoned over the past few years.
 

CB3UK

Hall of Famer
Apr 15, 2012
64,391
107,343
78
I'd start by moving our bigs to the top of the key and putting our guards down on the blocks.
 
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AllBall

All-American
May 5, 2015
4,906
6,448
93
Let's start off with having two guys on the court at all times that can shoot. It looks like Cal is heading in the right direciton by retaining Allen and adding Grady.

Cal's best offensive gems were in seasons when he had legitimate perimeter shooters - guys like Lamb, Monk, Knight, Sestina, Quickley, etc. - who opened the spacing up and allowed guys like Fox, Maxey, Liggins, Miller, and Teague to attack the rim.

The problem with this last campaign is that we had neither shooters nor play making, rim-attacking guards.

There will be no offensive flow until we get guys in here who can space and drive.
I absolutely loved the Knight and Lamb backcourt duo. Both could shoot from 3 and midrange, could attack off the bounce, good off ball movement, and Lamb could play point in a pinch.
 

BigBlueFan19

All-Conference
Apr 16, 2018
2,039
2,907
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I would have ran a 4 man out motion offense with the 3 best shooters on the perimeter and Jackson in the low post.
Sarr. Allen, Toppin with Mintz at point against man to man defense.

Zone offense totally different. 3/1/1 or 2/1/2 offense depending on zone.

It doesn't make any difference what offense I would run. Cal gets $9M a year to implement ANY offense that gives you an opportunity to get a good shot in the half court game.

But, half court should be just part of your offense. You have to have fast break points, secondary break shots, offensive rebounding points, free throws, absolutely have to have a formidable 3 point game. Those are parts of the offense that Cal has pretty much abandoned over the past few years.

Everything you mentioned has been already mentioned on this board the last couple weeks, good job on copy and paste
 

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
He's really never run a DDMO since he's been at UK. He's run a variant of it a few times or in some offensive sets, but he's never run it the way his last couple Memphis teams ran it. Truth be told, those Memphis teams didn't have a traditional center and he lacked the personnel to run anything. The DDMO is perfect for a team with multiple guards or small forwards who can handle the ball very well and finish well in traffic. They ate our lunch in the Maui invitational one year (2006) running that. They drove it down our throats again and again and scored 80 on one of Tubby's better teams.

To answer the original question, I think the traditional offense, with a power forward and center clogging the lane is what folks believe doesn't work. And there is no question, NBA offenses (and multiple teams in college- like Alabama and Arkansas) have gone to more of a 4 around 1 or just more of an open floor style of offense where you may have one big man inside and everyone cutting and moving, trying to create open looks from 3pt range first, open lanes to the basket, and back door cuts for lobs and dunks.

My opinion is this: Cal will likely make some changes to the offense this season, but I think ultimately it will depend on how the roster ends up rounding out. So, we've got Tshiebwe who is gonna likely start. He's more a back to the basket inside banger- a traditional 4 or 5. Who else will we have? If Jackson comes back, what will we do? (I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to come back) He would definitely need to play big minutes. That would be 2 big men down low. Kellan Grady coming on board is HUGE for the prospect of running a different offense. He can score on all 3 levels. He can handle the ball. He scores off screens, he scores on spot-ups, he scores off pick and roll. We have some other guys who might do well with more of an open floor kind of offense.

Bottom line though: I expect Cal to make changes to the offense but ultimately it will depend on his personnel.
 
Dec 30, 2002
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Everything you mentioned has been already mentioned on this board the last couple weeks, good job on copy and paste
First of all, I was responding to a direct question to me from you.

Second, unlike you evidently, I have not read every single post on this site.

Third, if you don't like to read my post, there is an ignore button you are welcome to use.
 

BigBlueFan19

All-Conference
Apr 16, 2018
2,039
2,907
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ANY offense with some sort of structure that gives the players some idea of what to do other than just "Go make a play".

So you want him to run a certain offense but don’t know what that offense could be. Typical
 
Jul 11, 2007
27,222
34,299
0
I'd settle for any out of bounds play that doesn't involve throwing it to a posting big on the perimeter. The one time we did something different this year, it resulted in a dunk.
 

Kybluedude

Heisman
Nov 19, 2005
9,398
12,075
0
I absolutely loved the Knight and Lamb backcourt duo. Both could shoot from 3 and midrange, could attack off the bounce, good off ball movement, and Lamb could play point in a pinch.
Interesting. I talked with a former Rupp NC guard who said he and the other guard were both expected to be able to run the offense. No designated pg. Felt most of the present day one guards weren’t proficient outside shooters. Both Rupp guards were also expected to be able to dribble pass and shoot and defend.

He also said that Rupp didn’t micro manage each trip down the floor like modern day coaches. Said if Rupp would have had to do that for you - you weren’t playing.

Wouldn’t mind is having two combo type guards like out front. Could that work today?
 
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Whatsup

All-American
Feb 15, 2011
8,987
8,085
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ANY offense with some sort of structure that gives the players some idea of what to do other than just "Go make a play".
Obviously, you‘re way in over your head. I‘d lay low if I were you. Stupid post have consequences on this board.
 

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
Obviously, you‘re way in over your head. I‘d lay low if I were you. Stupid post have consequences on this board.
Yes, this is the tact of those who have a blind hate for Cal. He has never done this. Now granted, this last season's team was so bad at times, it looked like that was the plan, but in reality it never was.

Watch that video above of UK's offense in seasons when we had the personnel to make it work, and it's a thing of beauty. This season, we didn't have a point who could get by his man. That was almost always the primary problem. And then when the pg made a play and kicked it out or passed it to the block, the guy on the wing missed the shot or the guy on the block couldn't finish. Offense always looks terrible when guys can't make shots.
 
Aug 15, 2001
35
48
0
Yes, this is the tact of those who have a blind hate for Cal. He has never done this. Now granted, this last season's team was so bad at times, it looked like that was the plan, but in reality it never was.

Watch that video above of UK's offense in seasons when we had the personnel to make it work, and it's a thing of beauty. This season, we didn't have a point who could get by his man. That was almost always the primary problem. And then when the pg made a play and kicked it out or passed it to the block, the guy on the wing missed the shot or the guy on the block couldn't finish. Offense always looks terrible when guys can't make shots.
For Calipari to win, his players have to be much better than the opponents’ players. If that is not the case, he does not have the ability to coach a lesser talented team to victory. And if the talent he has is superior to the talent of the opponent, he still at not win.
 

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
For Calipari to win, his players have to be much better than the opponents’ players. If that is not the case, he does not have the ability to coach a lesser talented team to victory. And if the talent he has is superior to the talent of the opponent, he still at not win.
How do you explain his success at UMass and Memphis? I know this has become a common theme here, kind of an accepted "group think" kind of idea, but I think it's overblown. In order to win a game, your team's players have to play better than the opponent. He took a team with Josh Harrelson starting at center to the Final Four. Skill is a bigger issue than talent, in my opinion. Cal has often had talented athletes who lacked skill. That has been his Achilles at UK.
 

Yardeth

Heisman
Jan 2, 2007
13,504
17,787
67
We need at least 3 players that can break the defense down, so the DDive works and kick or hit the floater or alley oop it. That would be a good start
 
Mar 10, 2003
5,927
11,325
93
4 out/ 1 in motion similar to Novas is my favorite. Any position can post and most positions can take an outside shot. If we have a good big that Power Box Iowa runs is nice if Cal is dead set on play revolving around the post. The horns sets we run are becoming outdated, especially with the personnel we’ve had.
 

Panthur

Heisman
Aug 5, 2008
9,225
12,782
0
What @IL Wildcat said. DDMO is a real and sophisticated system no matter how hard little boys try to wish it away. But Cal never fully implemented it here and lately he’s about as far from trying to implement it as he’s ever been. He definitely doesn’t recruit for it—it requires almost the opposite type of player that Cal stocks both in terms of physique (except for the long bouncy 5s he’s had) and in terms of experience: it takes mature players unless you have a Wall, an Ulis, or an SGA.

But all that said it wouldn’t need any tweaks to work today. It’s perfect for the modern game. In fact you could even say that Cal destroyed himself with it, since he’s the guy who brought it to Division 1 and then stuck his head in the sand while it morphed into other spread offenses that carve up his switching man-to-man and outperform the weave, high-low and midrange stuff he’s addicted to now. But at Memphis he absolutely proved he can run it to perfection if he ever decides to again.
 

Soupbean

All-American
Jan 19, 2007
5,945
8,109
0
Let's start off with having two guys on the court at all times that can shoot. It looks like Cal is heading in the right direciton by retaining Allen and adding Grady.

Cal's best offensive gems were in seasons when he had legitimate perimeter shooters - guys like Lamb, Monk, Knight, Sestina, Quickley, etc. - who opened the spacing up and allowed guys like Fox, Maxey, Liggins, Miller, and Teague to attack the rim.

The problem with this last campaign is that we had neither shooters nor play making, rim-attacking guards.

There will be no offensive flow until we get guys in here who can space and drive.
This is the start of it. That & better spacing would go a long way.

To the OP post, Cal used to have an offense with his dribble drive which used motion created by drivers off each other in a weave. Then when he got some talented bigs he went more to post play & sets. Then he mixed in a ton of two man game using the high ball screens & rolls.

The point is Cal changes a lot & doesn't stick to one thing & likes doing that with each new group. But I think the central thing lacking in all of them lately has been spacing & shooters. That even opens up the dribble drive game.
 

kl40504_rivals

Heisman
Oct 5, 2018
15,258
11,184
0
He doesn't have an offense. Or much coaching in general. No scouting, no adjustments, etc.
Just enough to have UK rated the best basketball program the last 10 years. Just enough to have more final fours than any other coach the last 11 years. Therefore I take offense to your statement.