....I've seen it stated AS FACT that Big 10 refs(or any for that matter) have been directed to MAKE SURE SOME TEAMS WIN.....I think that's crappy logic.
Thoughts and or proof?
Thoughts and or proof?
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OK, HONEST QUESTION...
- Thread starter Spartanhusker
- Start date
I am sure sometimes they get influenced by the crowd or the coach or even some of the players...but I would guess 99% of them do the best job that they can when they are out there.
Obviously I have no proof. I will say that refs are not robots. They are human, they have the ability to make decision and choices. When anyone is given the ability to affect a game based on choices those choices can be swayed by certain factors. Those factors could include money, harm, bribes, ect... I have no doubt that it happens. I have no idea to what level or how frequently it happens. There is massive amount of money involved in sports betting.
Now if you were more thinking along the lines of the SEC instructing refs to make sure bama wins or the BIG10 instructs the refs to make sure teams like Ohio St wins. That I don't believe happens. I do think the media show favorites when it comes to those type of teams.
Now if you were more thinking along the lines of the SEC instructing refs to make sure bama wins or the BIG10 instructs the refs to make sure teams like Ohio St wins. That I don't believe happens. I do think the media show favorites when it comes to those type of teams.
There are supposed to be fail safes to keep things on the up and up. Games are reviewed by other refs, calls reviewed, etc at the college and pro levels. If a pattern developed, someone would catch it. Also, how many times do the same refs call the same teams? You might get the same group a couple times in FB, not sure about BB.
I have known a lot of refs in my time, some have done college baseball, football, and basketball and that gets pretty interesting from the stories they tell. I have done some JH and JV BB and softball myself. I didn’t even hear the crowd. It all happens so fast you are concentrating and have to make decisions. I just don’t see how you could go into a game to intentionally screw another team.
There are fewer people getting into reffing and then we wonder why? Sometimes I would go to games as an administrator and know it was going to be a long night based on past experiences with the crew. Not they were intentional, they were just not good officials!
I have known a lot of refs in my time, some have done college baseball, football, and basketball and that gets pretty interesting from the stories they tell. I have done some JH and JV BB and softball myself. I didn’t even hear the crowd. It all happens so fast you are concentrating and have to make decisions. I just don’t see how you could go into a game to intentionally screw another team.
There are fewer people getting into reffing and then we wonder why? Sometimes I would go to games as an administrator and know it was going to be a long night based on past experiences with the crew. Not they were intentional, they were just not good officials!
The one and only time I thought something was up was the Texas A&M game in College Station.
I TOTALLY agree with you...but look how many times people here AND elsewhere state it AS FACT that the refs have been instructed to favor....
With all the computer systems and smart people out there isn’t it possible to track each officials performance over multiple seasons?
The data would show how many and what type of calls each official made and who the teams involved were.
I’m betting that If those things were tracked the numbers would be pretty balanced.
Do they keep track of every single call a particular ref makes. They might, I have no idea.
No it isn't, They seem to keep track of every other possible stat. Would help to see a pattern if certain refs consistently miss or make bad calls.
I was there, and I couldn't agree more. People only remember the roughing the passer call on Courtney Osborne that put Texas A&M into field goal range to go up 9-6
The one call I remember clear as day was actually a no call. There was blatant pass interference on A&M and would of put us in the Red Zone if they didn't end up picking up that flag <- That was the telling point for me the fix was in. Had a A&M fan come up to me after the game and say that usually happens to us when we play Texas. they new it wasn't called fair!
16-2 penalty advantage, that was also the game Peleni turned on the administration and fans for calling him out
http://www.espn.com/college-football/matchup?gameId=303240245
I think its worse in basketball than football. Anyone on this board ever seen KU or Duke play? Do you think in a million years we get our games called the same way they do? Not a chance. I don't think the refs cheat. I just think they're incompetent and know who they're watching. I used to ref high school and a few small college basketball games. I can't believe how many times I've seen current refs make calls out of position, or make a call when they aren't even supposed to be watching that area. I have a friend who watches some site that tracks refs calls again both the home and visiting teams. The differences are shocking. Worst I've ever seen were the refs at the Seton Hall game in which one clearly had it out for Roby on calls he hasn't made against anyone else. When everyone who follows the sport closely knows the name of a ref, he's normally terrible and just showboats for tv. They should all be replaced and the new ones have psychological profiles performed to see if they are looking for attention. Just my two cents.
My biggest concern is on the college level. The review system is whacked. Every play is reviewable. Yet a bunch of questionable plays aren't reviewed. Then when the announcers start questioning the call, low and behold the play gets buzzed for review. I swear sometimes the replay official is sitting in a lay z boy eating wings with greasy fingers and was too busy whiping them off on his pants to get the buzzer pushed.
On the other hand, IF I were the replay official, the next game on TV wouldn't be televised until halftime because I would be stopping the game so many times. I wouldn't be surprised if refs are instructed not to review too many for that reason. Only review calls that affect the game. Trouble is every play does.
One of the biggest crimes is the spotting of the ball and giving first downs without measuring. This again I am pretty sure that pressure is on to limit this due to time constraints. My opinion, get it right.
Then comes the feeling of, well I don't want to make Joe ref look bad so I am not going to review or over turn the call...,
It's a thankless job on the jr high and high school level. But college and above, it's a job. It's a job and if you're not good, get out.
Similar experiences and similar thoughts. Have done HS and small college games in the past, and still keep hanging around by helping the local school with JV games. Have never been perfect, but have always tried to call things the same. That is the same in regard to whomever is playing and regardless of the time in the game.
A lot of refs I observe these days "anticipate" calls. Doesn't matter if it actually occurred, but if you think it is going to happen then it must be true. College teams have a reputation and games are called according to that. As an example in the B1G, Illinois is a scrappy team and they don't have a big name coach. They don't play much differently on defense than Maryland, who is also scrappy but has a name coach. Maryland is allowed to play more aggressively than Illinois. Another example from an individual player is James Palmer, Jr. In non-conference games he seemed to get a lot of calls as he drove to the basket, and picked up a lot of points at the foul line. Once B1G games started, the same amount of contact driving to the hoop was not called nearly as often. That changes the way games are played and how effective an offense can play.
For what it is worth, these are observations. Can't say I have loads of data / stats to back it up. So, I may be way off base.....
Make up calls are worse in my opinion than a bad call. EVERYONE makes mistakes. That shouldn't give license to intentionally make another bad call. Admit the mistake and move on.
the fix was clearly in ... a lovely parting gift from the tejas 12 and beebe
We are kind of creating a bigger mess than we already have in a way. We complain and harass refs at pretty much all levels until they quit and then they are replaced with someone who isn't as good because people don't want to take that kind of crap. I saw countless young guys get into reffing HS BB only to find the pressure much worse than they expected so their careers are short lived. They don't stick around long enough to even pay their dues, develop the thick skin and get better. So, there is constant turn over. I don't know what it is like where you are at, go ahead and ask your HS activities director for certain, but when I was an AD we had a tough time finding refs of just about any caliber in HS and every year we would lose a good one or two and not much behind them to take over.
I am also of the opinion that the better athletes received what appears to be better calls. Better athletes jump straight and high and play athletic, not desperate, are quicker and play much smoother. Put them against a less polished team and the difference really stands out. The better athletes make the lesser athletes play more desperate and then you get the allusion one team is getting more calls when that probably isn't true. Again, just my opinion.
It's a thankless job, but you get paid good money to take it. Biggest problem with refs is rabbit ears. Coach said something unpleasant to you? Who gives a ****, call the game fairly and deal with it. I let guys say almost whatever they want. When they realize you don't care what they think, and you show great effort, you generally get left alone.
The A&M game wasn't about Beebe, it was about the the Burks crew. That specific crew had it out for BO. They called a crap game against us vs texas. And the game in Ames was about as bad as the one in College Station. Wasn't it Burkhead who almost got his neck snapped by the Cyclones and we were the one to get the penalty? And the A&M game was as blatant as the Soviet refs who gave CCCP the Olympic Gold in basketball in 1972.
Came across a stat after the Fran tirade at referee Steve McJunkin.
Fran is something like 6-29 overall when McJunkin is on the court & 1-11 in B1G games.
Interesting because Fran is 169-125 B1G - 420-302 overall.
Fran is something like 6-29 overall when McJunkin is on the court & 1-11 in B1G games.
Interesting because Fran is 169-125 B1G - 420-302 overall.
Yes, I remember that Iowa State game well too; and it was Greg Burks crew, same as A&M game. The play you referenced with Burkhead, I remember well. We had short yardage to get a TD, and Rex got it; but some linebacker on ISU was still going at it, well after he scored, and had a hold of his helmet and was pushing back as well as twisting. He appeared well on his way to removing Rex's head, so the FB; I believe it was Tyler Legate, rushed in and shoved the guy off Rex, and then a flag was immediately thrown, on Nebraska.
A referee can be bribed, just like a politician, judge, or any other person.
Does it happen often? probably not.. but at times or late in the season, I'm sure it happens.
With replay now, it's harder to influence the game than it used to be.
If you looked back at some of the stuff that happened in the 70's that if it happened today, people would be outraged.
Does it happen often? probably not.. but at times or late in the season, I'm sure it happens.
With replay now, it's harder to influence the game than it used to be.
If you looked back at some of the stuff that happened in the 70's that if it happened today, people would be outraged.
if I remember correctly, the isu guy was A.J. Klein who plays for saints
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