Why is it every year it's always a bench player that gets the most talk from fans? Miller, hood, Barbour, carruth, legion, jasper, liggins, wiltjer, just to name a few. And this year it's been humphries, mulder and Willis since before the season started. They're all gonna play and we will need them all to play well when they do, but maybe try and put just as much energy and passion into rooting for the guys who obviously have the talent to be superstars...rather than this guy should play more and take some of that guys minutes. I just want to see them all continue to improve and play well when they get their chance.
Obsession with the 6th, 7th, 8th man
- Thread starter willyclyde
- Start date
I'm not saying that's everybody, but I see and hear it quite a bit every single year and I know y'all do too lol
The best teams typically have a short, tight rotation. Maximizing minutes for the best players is sound strategy.
By the end of the year, I wouldn't be surprised to see us down to a 7 man rotation.
Bam
Briscoe
Fox
Monk
Willis
Gabriel
Hawk/Mulder
By the end of the year, I wouldn't be surprised to see us down to a 7 man rotation.
Bam
Briscoe
Fox
Monk
Willis
Gabriel
Hawk/Mulder
Totally agree. And skj/hump/hawk/mulder better be ready for when guys get in foul trouble or, god forbid, get injured.
Same reason the backup quarterback is always the most popular player on a football team.
I'd add Hump to it. He's pretty much 2nd for Center, true Power Forward and all-around big body down low.
Why is everything called an obsession if you talk about it? I must be obsessed with work. Ummmm no.
Because guys like Scott Padgett, Cameron Mills and Ravi Moss make people think every team has an answer to what ails them on the bench. Same reason people wanted Lonnell Dewalt to play for Tubby. The unknown can be morphed into the panacea and we've had bench players come through when given a chance.
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Not an obsession but when someone has a crappy game I wonder why some of their minutes didn't go to someone else.
We have 6 main guys plus Hawk/Hump?Mulder
5 guards for 3 spots on the floor
4 bigs for 2 spots on the floor
Dear Fatguy: Why don't we let Cal decide how to distribute the minutes and set the rotation. Since he's a HOF coach, and you're not, it seems to me that he probably has a much better handle on this than you do.
Who are you counting as the 4 guys for the #4 and #5 spots? Willis is too much of a 3-4 to be a low post presence. Gabriel can be, but he's still pretty raw.. showing his youth the last few days. Either way, neither of them are Centers.. All we have is Bam and Hump for that.
I don't love Hump as our option.. he needs work of course.. but he's our own true low-post guy after Bam.
I'm counting Bam, Hump, Gabriel, and Willis as forwards. You are correct that Hump is the only one that is more of a center, and Willis and Gabriel are more 3s.
I think we will continue to play a 3 guard lineup all season. So I was going 3 guards + 2 forwards.
I wish Hump were good enough at the 5 to let Bam play the 4, then Fox (1), Monk(2) & Gabriel(3), Briscoe off the bench for Fox, Monk, or Gabriel. Willis & Mulder as needed.
Because sometimes even a "crappy" version of one player is still better than the alternative. Coaches are going to play the guys that give us the best opportunity to win. For example, Saturday against UCLA it was obvious Briscoe didn't play very well. And lots of people pined for Mulder to get minutes. The problem with that, though, is that Mulder is really a guy that can spark us offensively, but struggles on the defensive side. We didn't need points...We were scoring at a high clip. We needed stops. Despite his poor play offensively, Briscoe provided us the best chance to get those stops at the other end.
Yeah, were kind of forced to play 3-guard lineups. We have too many great guards and not enough great frontcourt players.
We need to just put Hump in there. It's the only chance he gets better. Not playing him will only lead to one thing: Bam at the 5 and little to no help down low.
We just need to grin and bare it. Put Hump in, suffer the growing pains, and yes, maybe a loss or two. Take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward... because our frontcourt is not good enough to win a title right now.
We need to just put Hump in there. It's the only chance he gets better. Not playing him will only lead to one thing: Bam at the 5 and little to no help down low.
We just need to grin and bare it. Put Hump in, suffer the growing pains, and yes, maybe a loss or two. Take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward... because our frontcourt is not good enough to win a title right now.
What we need to do is what we're trying to do...play 3 guards + a stretch 4 + Bam.
Pressure the ball, create turnovers, and run. Make up for what we lose by having physically weak 4s by dictating an uptempo game, where Gabriel and Willis have advantages.
That's the hand we're holding, and it's a pretty strong hand. It just looks different than what we're accustomed to with Cal.
If we get in half court slugfests, we will have our hands full. But I thought all of y'all have been wanting to run more for 20 years?
Well, here we are with a running team. Enjoy it.
Pressure the ball, create turnovers, and run. Make up for what we lose by having physically weak 4s by dictating an uptempo game, where Gabriel and Willis have advantages.
That's the hand we're holding, and it's a pretty strong hand. It just looks different than what we're accustomed to with Cal.
If we get in half court slugfests, we will have our hands full. But I thought all of y'all have been wanting to run more for 20 years?
Well, here we are with a running team. Enjoy it.
I agree with you, but the problem that we could run into is that speeding up tempo is more difficult than slowing it down. And against teams with good guards that can handle the ball, that tactic may not be as effective as we would like.
It was clear in the second half last night that Cal seemed to deliberately slow the tempo so our guys could work in the half court more. There will come a time (and probably more often than we would like) where efficiency in the half court will have to be high for us to win a game. You always want to play to your strengths, and we're obviously at our best running a fast tempo, but how do you react when the opposition takes that away?
If Willis can find his shooting stroke again, and Bam can become more effective as a back-to-the-basket scorer, we'll have the pieces we're lacking right now. The next 6 weeks are going to be critical for this team going forward, and I'll be watching to see how those two improve specifically.
Of course we have to get better in the half court, and Bam's development is the key to that. But truth is, if we can't dictate tempo vs. an elite halfcourt team, good chance we go home.
This team is built to turn people over and to score on quick strikes. If we allow good offenses to settle into halfcourt sets, we are vulnerable.
Honestly, I'm less concerned with our own halfcourt offense than I am with keeping other teams from running theirs.
Just won't work when Bam sits for rest/fouls.
Derek & Gabe will not be enough at 4/5.
Hump has to play.......more than really needed now
.............to get read to play when we have to have him
Hump must be in the rotation.
Also, and I can't point this out enough: We're undefeated, and this isn't an issue if:
1. The whole team didn't have the bird-flu during the UCLA game.
2. We actually had a shoot around to get in the shooting groove.
3. The refs realized Kentucky was home, not UCLA
4. UCLA didn't have an over-the-top, even by their standards, shooting night away from home.
1. The whole team didn't have the bird-flu during the UCLA game.
2. We actually had a shoot around to get in the shooting groove.
3. The refs realized Kentucky was home, not UCLA
4. UCLA didn't have an over-the-top, even by their standards, shooting night away from home.
I wasn't implying that another big wouldn't get minutes. But unless Hump or SKJ get quite a bit better, they won't get big minutes in March, imo.
The 2012 team played 6 guys. Wiltjer was the 7th man, and stood at the three point line. Vargas played spot minutes as the eight man. I believe we could be in the same boat this year. Hopefully Hump and SKJ keep improving.
They will get minutes........whatever Bam can't handle.
As I said in my post...Gabe and Willis with 3 guards
won't be enough in late March. Expect every oppoent
to start 2 bigs & have 1/2 off the bench.
If SKJ or Hump don't get clock, it's because they haven't
improved.......and we lose vs KU, Duke, UNC, UL, etc.
We aren't disagreeing. Bam + a stretch 4 + 3 guards.
I thought it was implied that someone would have to backup Bam some. I didn't say we would play 2 stretch 4s and three guards.
The thing is, every game is different and personnel will chance according to the matchups we're face with. We have some flexibility where we can counter big lineups with speed and quickness, and we have the size to compete with big front lines (like you said, if Humphries can give us quality minutes) if we have to. Willis has size, but he doesn't play a traditional post position and is vulnerable defensively in that regard, but whatever disadvantage he has on D becomes an advantage on the offensive end because bigs have to come out to the 3-point line to guard him.
The thing is, guard play trumps interior play as you get into the postseason most of the time. I'd put our guards up against any group in the country and see where the chips fall. If Bam improves his offensive game (which I fully expect him to do) then the onus falls on the opposition to be able to stop our guard play. We're used to having a dominant big with Cal as coach, and while we don't have that right now, Bam has the potential to be that. There aren't many teams that can match our speed, length, and athleticism on the perimeter. We just have to find ways to maximize our advantages against teams with more quality interior players, but we will be able to do that in time.
Ideally Bam is out of the game for only a handful of minutes, with the backup getting 20% of the center minutes at most. There might indeed be some matchups that we're better with Gabriel playing the 5 since not every team is stacked with 2 to three players deep with bigs.
I'm certainly not opposed to an occasional lineup with Gabriel at the 5, but I would expect it to be the exception rather than the norm. Maybe in late game situations where ball handling is at a premium.
I just think that Gabriel and Willis are too physically weak to man the middle together for significant stretches. Would love to be proven wrong.
I agree that tournament Bam will get 32-36 minutes, barring foul trouble.
This is a very good point,Hump,Mulder and SKJ need to play because we will need them at some point and the only way they have a chance to be ready is by getting minutes.Cal is reluctant to play them it seems just as he was reluctant to play Willis until he had to do so last year.
Cal is good at what he does but he is not always right,but he can make most of us believe he is always right.
They shot 53%, there was no lockdown defender out there. A guy like Mulder can put up a bunch of points in a hurry and we needed that almost as much as stops. Our other three pt shooters were cold, seemed likethe thing to do.
Lonnell Dewalt ! lol , only a true long time fan would be able to pull a name like that from their memory . Salute to you brother !
No he can't. This is kind of post that gives every critic a bad rap. You assume and that's all you have. He was 1-5 from 3 last night against a far weaker team than ucla. You can't just say he's going to put up a bunch of points in a hurry when he has never come close, not even against weak competition.
Briscoe is a way better defender, he also averages more ppg than Mulder's career high over two seasons. It's a no brainer which player gives the team the highest chance of winning. I want to see Mulder play, I like his athleticism, his rebounding, and his demeanor. No make believe, no assumptions.
And Mulder shot poorly from three against Valpo but you assume that wouldn't have happened against UCLA . When Cal makes a choice to go with better defense he doesn't know they won't get enough stops to win the game . You know because the game is over and go about selecting the supposed correct approach in full hindsight .
If our starters couldn't stop them then Mulder would have been even more exposed . As much as we can't prove you wrong because Mulder didn't play and there is no proof , you also aren't correct for the very same reason .
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