Observation, not criticism

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

What explanation are you looking for? We ARE inexperienced whether you want to hear it or not. And, the "talent over experienced" argument doesn't belong in the conversation, unless of course you want to revert back to Ten Loss Tubby's days of recruiting 4 year superstars.

All of our teams under Cal have been young, however, this particular one seems to be way more young and inexperienced than the others. Some incoming players have more trouble adjusting to the college game than others and I would guess that they'll win some games we shouldn't and lose some they should win.

 

[BoxterS]

Because Calipari wouldn’t have offered Herro in 2011, not imo anyway. He’s not defensively good enough or skilled enough in the lane.

Calipari has held multiple philosophies during his coaching tenure. He’s excelled at both, there’s no reason at this time to go all in when you don’t have to anymore. There was a time when most assumed you can’t get Davis, MGK, Barret, Wiggins etc if you’ve got a roster lit up
With upperclassman. Today it’s not only not true, it seems to be the opposite. I fully believe Cal didn’t believe he’d slip with those guys, and wanted to make the scene as OAD friendly as possible.

What I’m hoping is that we get a bulk of these guys back, add some kids like Herro for 3/4 years, and hit the top 5 jackpot for a perfect storm. If Cal wants a top heavy OAD team fine, but why save scholarships? Why turn shooters away? Why not adapt to the reality around CBB? The vision Cal has for his program in 2008 is no longer possible.

Look back at Memphis 2008. Dorsey, Antonio Anderson, CDR, Dozier.....not one 5 Star in that bunch. Mostly low ranked 4’s and 3’s. Add Rose into
It, it became a title team over night. As in, the next day.

I’m not advocating recruiting that same way. Cal can’t go back to that. The OAD serves Cal particularly well. But I just don’t think the talent is high enough anymore to depend on his 2009 model today, and we must have some juniors and seniors who are sold Kentucky (that he hand picked by need) because they’re not necessarily interested in immediate NBA pitches.

I agree. And MY GOODNESS have I been preaching this from the highest mountain top.

Curious, what makes you think Herro is a 3-4 year player? I remember the same being said about Booker and Ulis, among others.

The true evidence that Cal has changed is when we see good players return. Until then, it's still "hey I'm trying to get kids to the league and change family's lives for generations". Which I just hate

 

[bucsrule8872]

I came away encouraged about the game today.

Vermont is good. I was afraid they would pull the upset.

These youngsters showed some fight. They won a close game. You usually learn more as a team from close games than blowouts.

This game will serve us well as the season progresses.

Remember John Wall and company almost losing to Miami(OH)? Same kind of experience, but with a younger team.

This was a good day, so enjoy the win.

 

[brianpoe]

I agree. And MY GOODNESS have I been preaching this from the highest mountain top.

Curious, what makes you think Herro is a 3-4 year player? I remember the same being said about Booker and Ulis, among others.

The true evidence that Cal has changed is when we see good players return. Until then, it's still "hey I'm trying to get kids to the league and change family's lives for generations". Which I just hate

You would hate helping people....

It is not Cal's fault Booker left. But you cant accept that. As a UL fan, I get it.

 

[Dablueman]

This team we beat today was every bit as good if not better than the Miami of Ohio team that it took John Wall hitting a game winning shot to beat! Ben I respect your opinion and I grasp that you feel will come together as usual. I just think top 50 is a bit of an exaggeration. Top 30 maybe but to tell the truth the team we beat today is the kinda team who has put Duke and Kansas out of the tournament in the recent past. Way more experienced Duke and Kansas teams. Vermont wins alot of games in any conference u put them in.

 

[TankedCat]

What explanation are you looking for? We ARE inexperienced whether you want to hear it or not. And, the "talent over experienced" argument doesn't belong in the conversation, unless of course you want to revert back to Ten Loss Tubby's days of recruiting 4 year superstars.

There is nothing to explain.

At this point I can give Cal's before game and post game interviews full of the standard soundbites.

My concern is that the margin of error isn't covered in the players growth over the course of 1 season which is problematic for our approach to basketball.

 

[BoxterS]

You would hate helping people.... what a loser.

It is not Cal's fault Booker left. But you cant accept that. As a UL fan, I get it.

Who said it was Cal's fault Booker left? The point I'm making is that Booker was thought to be a multi-year player but performed well enough to be a high draft pick. How do we know Herro won't do the same? Shew calm down big guy. Go back to humble bragging about your girlfriend

 

[brianpoe]

Who said it was Cal's fault Booker left? The point I'm making is that Booker was thought to be a multi-year player but performed well enough to be a high draft pick. How do we know Herro won't do the same? Shew calm down big guy. Go back to humble bragging about your girlfriend

Why is that Cal's fault that he recruited him?

Cal wasn't expecting Booker to leave after his freshman year and Cal didn't push him. The kid showed out and was drafted.

I'm sorry we recruit better talent than UL, and obviously prepare them better.

And that is my wife btw.

 

[BoxterS]

Why is that Cal's fault that he recruited him?

Cal wasn't expecting Booker to leave after his freshman year and Cal didn't push him. The kid showed out and was drafted.

I'm sorry we recruit better talent than UL, and obviously prepare them better.

And that is my wife btw.

You don't know what Cal was expecting and what he wasn't expecting. That kind of talk on here is too rampant. Posters speak opinions as fact on here too often, especially when it comes to Cal's intentions. None of us really know, so stop acting like you do.

My point with Herro, and with any other recruit, is it's futile to predict how many years they will stay, because none of us know. That's it. Nothing more. Not saying we should or shouldn't recruit him or anyone else. Simply saying that given past examples of players here who have left early and quite unexpectedly, and Cal's penchant for propelling as many as possible to the league, it's hard to know what a player's future at UK will look like.

I know you're dying to be confrontational with me, but the opinions I state on here have validity, as much as it pains you to discover. And I know for fact it pains you because you have yet to put me on ignore, and further more, you desperately try to refute my every talking point. Again, chill out. Grab a protein shake, spend 20 in the tanning bed, feed your progressive narcissistic tendencies with selfies or pictures of your wife. I don't care, just find another poster to follow around.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

As my title says, I am not criticizing this team, but as an observation, we are just not very good, right now. They don't guard the 3, they can't stop straight line drives, and the offense is a little disjointed. I am confident that this bunch is so young, that they are going to be much improved by March, because I believe they are all good kids, and want to be coached, but as of today, we may be top 50. I look for KU to throttle us, on Tuesday. This team will benefit from Christmas break more than any other team that Cal has had. First, we should have Vanderbilt back, and then the unlimited practice time will be invaluable. Come tournament time, we will be a totally different team, but right now, we are going to take some lumps.

Have we ever guarded the 3?

 

[brianpoe]

You don't know what Cal was expecting and what he wasn't expecting. That kind of talk on here is too rampant. Posters speak opinions as fact on here too often, especially when it comes to Cal's intentions. None of us really know, so stop acting like you do.

My point with Herro, and with any other recruit, is it's futile to predict how many years they will stay, because none of us know. That's it. Nothing more. Not saying we should or shouldn't recruit him or anyone else. Simply saying that given past examples of players here who have left early and quite unexpectedly, and Cal's penchant for propelling as many as possible to the league, it's hard to know what a player's future at UK will look like.

I know you're dying to be confrontational with me, but the opinions I state on here have validity, as much as it pains you to discover. And I know for fact it pains you because you have yet to put me on ignore, and further more, you desperately try to refute my every talking point. Again, chill out. Grab a protein shake, spend 20 in the tanning bed, feed your progressive narcissistic tendencies with selfies or pictures of your wife. I don't care, just find another poster to follow around.

If you were a UK fan you would know Cal has stated many times he had no idea Booker would be a OAD when he signed him, and even as the season went on.

 

[BoxterS]

If you were a UK fan you would know Cal has stated many times he had no idea Booker would be a OAD when he signed him, and even as the season went on.

That's fine, it doesn't change the premise of my original point. When it comes to kids being one and done or staying multiple years; WE DONT KNOW. No one knows. So why is it assumed that any player (Herro for instance) will assuredly be a multi year player?

 

[brianpoe]

That's fine, it doesn't change the premise of my original point. When it comes to kids being one and done or staying multiple years; WE DONT KNOW. No one knows. So why is it assumed that any player (Herro for instance) will assuredly be a multi year player?

We know you don't like Cal nor the OAD.

Not many UL fans do.

We assume many kids will be multi-year players.

We thought Teague would be, and we thought the twins were sure-fire OADs.

This is the age in which we live.

I don't expect UL fans to understand because the only time you guys recruit our level of players you have to pay them $100k.

 

[morgousky]

I think Herro is a 3/4 year player going by his current situation. That could change of course. Maybe he’s interested in UK because of the Booker types who helped their stock by committing to Kentucky.

I think that also brings up something
else worth discussing. I think it’s possible that Cals System is morphing into a “smart” decision for kids ranked 10-35ish that are borderline NBA first and second rounders. Kentucky effect is real, if I were a top recruit ranked 24th and listed as a second rounder on mocks, I wouldn’t want to play anywhere but UK. Then we have an issue where top 5 transcendent type recruits in each class spread out, we get the aspiring NBA recruits, and no upperclassman to counter the void.

And for the love of God, Brian is gracious enough to allow us super skimpy pics of the wife. He’s poster of the year for that in my book, I’d return the favor and send pics of mine (not as built but small frame and f’able as they come), but I don’t have the balls of Poe. I might have to get back into teaching if I fail at business again, can’t risk people actually knowing who the guy is behind this terrible posting account.

I’ve had several girlfriends who were into fitness. And let me tell ya, whether or not you prefer built women, you have not lived until you workout together and feel the “need” smack in the middle of it. They go just as hard as you, if you know what I mean. Tough.

 

[morgousky]

We know you don't like Cal nor the OAD.

Not many UL fans do.

We assume many kids will be multi-year players.

We thought Teague would be, and we thought the twins were sure-fire OADs.

This is the age in which we live.

I don't expect UL fans to understand because the only time you guys recruit our level of players you have to pay them $100k.

Louisville fan? Isn’t he cut? Is / was Cut a Louisville fan?

 

[brianpoe]

Louisville fan? Isn’t he cut? Is / was Cut a Louisville fan?

To many Cut is Zipp's username here...

 

[morgousky]

To many Cut is Zipp's username here...

True. Haha. I don’t know now, he didn’t deny being a Louisville fan.....hmmmm....maybe I’m being played.

I guess that makes me sound like a Louisville fan because the post seem to line up from time to time.......

However I am not. I’ve still got holes in the first house I bought that we rent. ...because of Tubby Smith Kentucky teams.

 

[*CatinIL*]

So help me out here...43 is a UofL <===[laughing] fan? I can't keep up. [laughing]

 

[BoxterS]

So help me out here...43 is a UofL <===[laughing] fan? I can't keep up. [laughing]

Not a UL fan.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I wish they would do more post up stuff with the height they have. Knox, PJ, should be able to score on the guys guarding since they will usually have an advantage there. Even Diallo and SGA should be doing this. Got to use this their advantage.

 

[Dablueman]

I feel as we get even close to getting our offense actually put in place we will see more post ups. But we also have a huge advantage with some of those guys driving to the basket when Knox learns to pull up instead of charge he is virtual unguardable. Got to remember we just got done playing a couple of really decent teams who because they were upperclassmen dominated with a multi year coach have probably spent every practice working on a game plan for us. Throw in Vermont is the kinda team that beats a top 10 early in the season or knocks out a top 4 seed in the tourney.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

here is the thing for me, and I expect to get some heat for saying this

Maybe we beat Kansas, maybe we don't - but don't tell me we are young, don't tell me we are going to lose some games to good teams because we aren't good enough. The mantra was I'll take talent over experience. Don't use inexperience as an excuse.

So we should just never lose. Never make mistakes and always play perfectly. We must always beat lower tier teams by 25 because no other FF caliber teams have EVER lost or played a close game with a lesser talented opponent. Never ever.

UNC def didn’t get blown out by 30 when they won the title a couple years ago

 

[TankedCat]

So we should just never lose. Never make mistakes and always play perfectly. We must always beat lower tier teams by 25 because no other FF caliber teams have EVER lost or played a close game with a lesser talented opponent. Never ever.

UNC def didn’t get blown out by 30 when they won the title a couple years ago

not sure how to respond to your post since it has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[kentuckyrld]

The offense will eventually come around simply because this team is extremely talented on that end of the floor. Will just take time. The worrisome part to me is the defense. This group, at least right now, is extremely lazy. They don't seem to realize that they have to continue to play intensely to the end of the play. They tend to quit which means that if the other team makes the extra pass they give up on defense. Also, the defensive footwork is about as bad as it can be. Waving at the offense as they drive by will not work and don't get me started about help side defense. There is none. I believe they will, hopefully, learn to play defense at some point but I fear Coach Cal just does not have enough time this season to make it happen. We shall see.

 

[Ben101er]

here is the thing for me, and I expect to get some heat for saying this

Maybe we beat Kansas, maybe we don't - but don't tell me we are young, don't tell me we are going to lose some games to good teams because we aren't good enough. The mantra was I'll take talent over experience. Don't use inexperience as an excuse.

I don't think it is an excuse as much as an explanation, so that when we get hit in the nose a couple of times, early on, the fan base doesn't head for the nearest bridge. The reality is, they ARE really young, just a couple of games out of HS basketball, and it is going to be a process. However, when you see the finished product, in March, most will be satisfied.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

not sure how to respond to your post since it has nothing to do with what I said.

It does - you said “don’t tell me we’re young, don’t tell me we’re gonna lose “ etc etc.

 

[Dablueman]

not sure how to respond to your post since it has nothing to do with what I said.

I will bro. Ur taking what Cal said out of context completely! He did say he would be take talent but he was referring to the whole season not individual early season games. He has been very honest about it being a process and it's hard to argue with his results.

 

[Roxamora]

Team looks just like I expected it to look.

They are lost on offense and defense.

They are relying on their athleticism to make plays.

They are so young, yet so talented.

They will continue to look disjointed throughout much of the season.

The ceiling is incredibly high for this bunch, but the question is how close will they get to the ceiling by March.

If guys return that should return, we are going to be deadly next season.

So true. For all those UK fans who wish we could hang on to players more than one year and rely on veteran strength/maturity, you will have your wish: these kids will be amazing sophomores. Also, I saw marked improvement between the Utah Valley and Vermont games, and that's no small accomplishment for young players. Learn from mistakes, take it one game at a time. My advice: get to know these kids and invest yourself in their journey, because you're going to get to enjoy most of them for TWO years- rare and wonderful!

 

[Dablueman]

So true. For all those UK fans who wish we could hang on to players more than one year and rely on veteran strength/maturity, you will have your wish: these kids will be amazing sophomores. Also, I saw marked improvement between the Utah Valley and Vermont games, and that's no small accomplishment for young players. Learn from mistakes, take it one game at a time. My advice: get to know these kids and invest yourself in their journey, because you're going to get to enjoy most of them for TWO years- rare and wonderful!

Maybe a two or three of them. Knox Diallo and Vanderbilt are pros next season Richards most likely is too. SGA is in the first round of Mocks and 2 guys who look like they may be back and one of them is fifty fifty are Soph Gabriel and Jones.

 

[CatsPaws270]

They won 2 games they easily could have lost.

In 2009, Miami of Ohio and Stanford both finished 14-18...early in the year it took clutch final plays and an OT to beat those teams. And that was Wall, Bledsoe, Patterson, and Boogie...they finished ok.

They are all freshman and played experienced teams in their "Super Bowls", they won 2 games that the outcome was in doubt...meaning they made plays to win games.

Freshman improve more than other players over the course of a season from start to finish. They'll learn about each other and their chemistry will improve game by game...turnovers will turn to assists and bad shots will turn into extra passes.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I don't think it is an excuse as much as an explanation, so that when we get hit in the nose a couple of times, early on, the fan base doesn't head for the nearest bridge. The reality is, they ARE really young, just a couple of games out of HS basketball, and it is going to be a process. However, when you see the finished product, in March, most will be satisfied.

I'm not so sure Ben -- We ( myself certainly included ) are a spoiled bunch , we lose 10-11 games , get bounced before the FF and the natives will be restless . It is going to be a process , a difficult one , Love to see Cal work his magic and just drop 6-7 games and an elite 8 with this team , that would be impressive .

 

[dreadpirate_rivals241225]

It was a veteran team, who is unranked, and not one of their players would be recruited by UK.

That's the kind of team that beats Kansas in the tournament most years, and we beat them with an AAU team in November. I'll hold off on pressing the panic button just yet.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Pointing back to the Miami Ohio game is stupid. Who are the Walls, Cousins, Bledsoes in this team?

Similar teams maybe in experience but worlds apart in ability.

Truly apples and oranges

 

[Randy Bob]

I thank Vermont would have made alot of 3 s against anybody they was shooting up in the 40 per cent range, don't thank we will see alot of teams like that..

 

[Ben101er]

That's the kind of team that beats Kansas in the tournament most years, and we beat them with an AAU team in November. I'll hold off on pressing the panic button just yet.

Wasn't doing that. I simply said that we will be much, much better late in the year, and that a loss is not the end of the world. Some thought that a close win over Vermont, in Rupp meant we were pretty good and I think we have some growing to do, first.

 

[white10]

We have to get Knox more involved offensively. Defense has to improve big time and rebounding.[/QU

Knox, reminds me of Prince, really laid back and to passive for his talent and size.

 

[Ben101er]

I'm not so sure Ben -- We ( myself certainly included ) are a spoiled bunch , we lose 10-11 games , get bounced before the FF and the natives will be restless . It is going to be a process , a difficult one , Love to see Cal work his magic and just drop 6-7 games and an elite 8 with this team , that would be impressive .

To only lose 6-7 games, with a tough OOC schedule and the SEC really improved, with this young bunch would be Coach of the year stuff. A lot depends on how quickly Vanderbilt can return at full speed.

 

[Bluegrassking]

here is the thing for me, and I expect to get some heat for saying this

Maybe we beat Kansas, maybe we don't - but don't tell me we are young, don't tell me we are going to lose some games to good teams because we aren't good enough. The mantra was I'll take talent over experience. Don't use inexperience as an excuse.

It isn't an excuse but a legitimate reason. There is no such thing as just add water and have a championship contender or even just a generally cohesive team.

It is a process and will remain such. We will typically be very green each season and it will take some time to gel, learn each other, for the staff to learn them, and for it all to develop.

The stuff is super basic and how it doesn't make sense I cannot even guess other than some lame brained mentality that thinks all is about is rolling out the balls or that these young men are characters on a video game.

Considering the results of the past eight or none years, I don't get what the complaint even is.

Also, stop pretending experience is some magic elixir. Our guys beat and go further than 99% of even the most experienced squads.

What are you you even wringing hands about, dropping a few early OOC games? You seriously want to peak in November and expect for that to hold into March and April?

Maybe you are just being overly entittled and perhaps even somewhat of an absurd drama queen.

 

[TankedCat]

that response is Calipari defense 101.

I expected it, actually I also expected the go root for Louisville, as well as the if you don't like it stop posting here.

The thread is only 3 pages so there is still time.

I'm far from a Cal hater so you guys can lower your shields and go back to defcon 1

Its a long season, we'll see how it plays out, but this isn't about losing an OOC game or a any game. Apparently that wasn't clear when I said we may or may not beat Kansas. I thought it was.

 

[Bkocats]

that response is Calipari defense 101.

I expected it, actually I also expected the go root for Louisville, as well as the if you don't like it stop posting here.

The thread is only 3 pages so there is still time.

I'm far from a Cal hater so you guys can lower your shields and go back to defcon 1

Its a long season, we'll see how it plays out, but this isn't about losing an OOC game or a any game. Apparently that wasn't clear when I said we may or may not beat Kansas. I thought it was.

Never thought you weren’t a UK FAN, personally. Perhaps you’re just more cynical than most, and there is nothing wrong with that.

We do need the talent, and freshman impact players (like Wall and AD) DO trump experience. However I do agree the experience is necessary to balance things. Our talent this year is quite good...and given a couple of years they could be near unstoppable. But this IS a year where we do need that experience because none of these guys, at this time, have shown to have enough talent to be true impact players.

I like Cal’s philosophy about players first, overall. If either of my sons had that kind of talent I would want that for them. But, unfortunately, it can also bite him in the butt.
This team will learn. It might get really ugly before it gets better, but they’ll learn.