Nuk
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The slipper slope argument is pure speculation and doesn’t recognize any nuance. Calhoun was not Lincoln or Jefferson or Washington. Calhoun used his political platform to promote the idea that slavery was a positive good for society, and his writings and essays provided a philosophical justification for denying rights to slaves. His name is synonymous with the enslavement of black people. The slippery slope argument ignores this.
Perfect timing.
A perfect example of the problem today.
Anyone? convince me how this statement isnt racist af?
All fair man. Usually when people bring up Nazis/Hitler they are trolling. (Probably the only thing that could be compared to slavery is the holocaust)
You would be surprised, but I actually do agree that renaming everything in sight is a slippery slope.
I've also come to realize recently that I, as a white man, will never know what Nuk and other black Americans experience or feel on a daily basis. Have things gotten better? Absolutley! However, racism is still out there and it clearly affects the young men that we cheer on every Saturday and throughout the years.
Sports to me is the ultimate equalizer. If you're on my team I don't care what your race/creed is, as long as you pull your weight and represent us with integrity, I will love you like a brother. I miss being on a team where everyone has a different upbringing, but everyone also has the same goal.
you just described what I experienced in the military. I loved my brothers. Colors don’t matter when the guy or gal next to you is fighting for a greater cause. Its indescribable.
I miss it everyday!
I support renaming The Honors College and Tillman Hall reverting back to Old Main. Both received their current names relatively recently (1980s and 1940s).
Hell no, if we’re going to engage in this ********, lets go hardcore. Rename everything.
The “you can’t change history” people really can’t be that dense can they?
To put your position in context:
if we let men and women get married, gay people will want to get married.
If we let gay people get married, they will let child molesters marry children.
If that happens, next thing you know people will be marrying animals.
Ergo, no one should get married. Because bestiality is ******** we shouldn’t have marriage.
if we renamed the honors college after Jim Crowe would you stand behind that
I could’ve sworn he gave a different answer to this question years ago when asked. Maybe I got it mixed up.
Read your Bible. It tells you all about marriage and there is only one answer. The others you mentioned are just an abomination.
My point was to show how what you are saying is illogical, but if you can’t take emotion out of it and see the deductive reasoning behind the analogy, I will ask you this. If Clemson was named Jim Crow University, would you stand behind the name and use a slippery slope argument to justify your position?
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This is the first post that begins to make sense of the argument. How did the opinions, actions and character of the man reconcile with the prevailing sentiment of his time. I honestly don’t know with Calhoun, but you at least lay out a case that he differed in a materially negative way.
After reading up on Ben Tillman, I can make a much better case that his name is removed from Tillman Hall. He was clearly more racist and cruel than the prevailing sentiment of his day. He was not a good man.
Calhoun was also born in the 1700s. Tillman was in power decades after the civil war. Different times and different expectations for their actions.
It’s a difficult argument because we all know that their positions were wrong. The poster quoted Lincoln above - clearly his position was wrong. How do you reconcile it all? My best rationale is what I said above - judge their opinions, actions and character against their peers and the prevailing sentiment of the time.
Appreciate that. The question is how do you justify honoring someone who’s been dead for 170 years whose legacy represents the oppression of 25-30% of SC’s demographic today. There were plenty of politicians who were contemporaries of John Calhoun who advocated for state’s rights who didn’t take his positions on slavery. I’d ask anyone who feels threatened by the prospect of removing his name from the honors college to really question why it makes them feel that way.
Guess who said this
I will say then, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters of the negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, of having them to marry with white people. I will say in addition, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which I suppose, will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality, and inasmuch, as they cannot so live, that while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man.
Abe Lincoln. Erase him from the history books.
I will say then, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters of the negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, of having them to marry with white people. I will say in addition, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which I suppose, will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality, and inasmuch, as they cannot so live, that while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man.
Abe Lincoln. Erase him from the history books.
This is part of it. I think the other part is when and why something was named. For example, Clemson was named for the man who donated all the land for the university whereas the honors college was named for Calhoun almost 200 years after he died and he has absolutely no connection to it other than the fact that he was probably fairly intelligent? Also there is basically zero cost to renaming the honors college and it in no way "rewrites" history.
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Abolition was a major part of Lincoln’s platform and political philosophy. Racial equality was not and his views on racial equality were wrong but prevalent during that time. If you can’t distinguish his views from those of John Calhoun and see that there is a difference then I don’t know what to tell you. Calhoun’s name is associated with enslavement, Lincoln’s name is associated with abolition. It’s not complicated.
To really open the conversation to renaming let’s change Washington and Jefferson from DC names and oh by the way because Lincoln submitted an amendment (Corwin amendment) to guarentee slavery and let’s not stop there let’s go through all of history and change all the names of any person who was involved the last 3000 years in slavery including the many Africans who slave traded their own brothers and sisters for cheap goods from the Europeans
Let’s All own our culpability
Let’s All own our culpability
You are literally the only person in this thread advocating this position, which should tell you it’s likelihood of ever gaining popular acceptance. I question why the idea of changing the name of the honors college makes you hyperemotional to the point that you would take such a knee jerk stance that is completely out of touch with what the vast majority of people in this country think. Can you explain exactly why Clemson should honor John Calhoun’s legacy? Would you make these same arguments if it were named after a historical black figure who advocated for the enslavement of white people?
I have no hard-fast stance for Calhoun. My stance is for caving to the ridiculous. If you start with Calhoun, where does it stop? I hope you aren’t naive enough to believe it stops there.
My belief is that there are many, many more CURRENT issues that people could put their energy and passion behind to solve that would much better benefit all races than renaming a damn building.
My belief is that there are many, many more CURRENT issues that people could put their energy and passion behind to solve that would much better benefit all races than renaming a damn building.