North Carolina Scandal Etc

[JPScott]

Bethel strikes me as an individual who is of slightly above average intelligence and performed well in school due to effort, but now believes his intellect is far greater than it actually is. My experience is that those types tend to dig in their heels and create bigger problems for themselves. Will be fascinating to see how this plays out.

FWIW, may be harsh, but my impression of Bethel is that he's someone that has a fairly ordinary job which happened to place him in a University atmosphere. This circumstance has led him to elevate his own estimation of his intellect beyond what it actually is. (i.e. he lives among and works with professors etc. so he considers himself at that same level.)

This documentary has provided him with an opportunity, at least in his mind, to 'save' the University from this scandal and he will be looked upon as the hero of Chapel Hill.

But as I said before that scenario may play out ONLY if the film is regarded exactly as he hopes it will be. (which is some sort of revelation which will lead UNC's critics to realize they were misguided and wrong in impugning UNC's stellar track record :gag: )

If it doesn't pan out that way however (and in fact if it backfires on him), he may end up not only being the butt of jokes on PackPride, but I highly doubt his 'colleagues' at UNC will be appreciative of his efforts either, because all it achieved was to bring more attention to the scandal and attract even more ridicule.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

I don't know all of the posters here well enough to speak to their feelings at the time they wrote that Bilas was lying, covering up, etc. I will just have to trust you do, and take your word for it.

Also, I'm pretty sure Bilas is not as dumb as you're implying. But it's not just Bilas, several others in the media say exactly what he said. Are they all too dumb to understand this? I seriously doubt it. But, that's me.

To state someone is mistaken about a specific fact is not to imply they are dumb. That is not an implication I made, but rather an erroneous inference on your part.

The other media members I have heard say similar things as Bilas have all been sports journalists. They suffer from the same lack of expertise.

I have a hunch that you've spent more time reading the actual NCAA by-laws than most, if not all, of the sports journalists that have weighed in on this. And despite all that reading, you still did not understand the difference between an impermissible benefit and an extra benefit. A distinction that is critical when it comes to the consequences of a violation.

If you were unable to understand this nuance after all your reading, is it that unrealistic to believe that these media members would also be developing incorrect conclusions?

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

FWIW, may be harsh, but my impression of Bethel is that he's someone that has a fairly ordinary job which happened to place him in a University atmosphere. This circumstance has led him to elevate his own estimation of his intellect beyond what it actually is. (i.e. he lives among and works with professors etc. so he considers himself at that same level.)

This documentary has provided him with an opportunity, at least in his mind, to 'save' the University from this scandal and he will be looked upon as the hero of Chapel Hill.

But as I said before that scenario may play out ONLY if the film is regarded exactly as he hopes it will be. (which is some sort of revelation which will lead UNC's critics to realize they were misguided and wrong in impugning UNC's stellar track record :gag: )

If it doesn't pan out that way however (and in fact if it backfires on him), he may end up not only being the butt of jokes on PackPride, but I highly doubt his 'colleagues' at UNC will be appreciative of his efforts either, because all it achieved was to bring more attention to the scandal and attract even more ridicule.

Your read on things certainly seems plausible too. I've never met the guy, that was simply my gut reaction. Obviously, my view might be both incorrect and unfair. I guess we'll see how things play out.

 

[Lumpy 2]

Bobby makes a pretty weak argument but he should get credit for attendance.

 

[Spanish Radio]

I don't know all of the posters here well enough to speak to their feelings at the time they wrote that Bilas was lying, covering up, etc. I will just have to trust you do, and take your word for it.

Also, I'm pretty sure Bilas is not as dumb as you're implying. But it's not just Bilas, several others in the media say exactly what he said. Are they all too dumb to understand this? I seriously doubt it. But, that's me.

Bilas is playing semantics like you. He is doing this because he doesn't want college basketball to be tarnished by UNC***s 20 years of fraud. He has bound his career to college basketball and if it is in ruins he might have to go back and do a real job instead of watching and speculating on a kid's game. I am sure he would much rather be sitting in a gym somewhere than reading law. He wants to be the next Dick Vitale. He is half way there due to the fact he is a hypocrite by calling out the NCAA at every chance but then failing to call out UNC*** for 20 years of fraud.

 

[DY9ASTY_rivals168625]

Good ole Baby-Dick Bobby.....

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

To state someone is mistaken about a specific fact is not to imply they are dumb. That is not an implication I made, but rather an erroneous inference on your part.

The other media members I have heard say similar things as Bilas have all been sports journalists. They suffer from the same lack of expertise.

I have a hunch that you've spent more time reading the actual NCAA by-laws than most, if not all, of the sports journalists that have weighed in on this. And despite all that reading, you still did not understand the difference between an impermissible benefit and an extra benefit. A distinction that is critical when it comes to the consequences of a violation.

If you were unable to understand this nuance after all your reading, is it that unrealistic to believe that these media members would also be developing incorrect conclusions?

No, I understand the difference, you explained it to me remember? However, something that you seem to miss is that Bilas is not just a sport journalist. His prior area of work surely conditioned him to be able to read and correctly interpret a NOA. Second, I think it's niive to think that sports journalists (or at least the one's who've weighed-in on this issue) don't do their due diligence, and ask others for technical commentary. In fact, Goodman quoted Stu Brown in his article (Stu should definitely know such intricacies). Finally, if it is a cut-and-dry as you say and if you are correct about IB and IEB why then is there any discussion about whether or not games will be vacated?

There's an old saying (which is molded to fit the situations), if you feel like you're smarter than someone then there's a good chance you are, but if you feel like you're smarter than everyone your probably not. I guess we'll see if this saying holds weight or if there are a bunch of ill-informed sports journalists, lawyers, and NCAA experts. Thanks again for the chat.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

No, I understand the difference, you explained it to me remember? However, something that you seem to miss is that Bilas is not just a sport journalist. His prior area of work surely conditioned him to be able to read and correctly interpret a NOA. Second, I think it's niive to think that sports journalists (or at least the one's who've weighed-in on this issue) don't do their due diligence, and ask others for technical commentary. In fact, Goodman quoted Stu Brown in his article (Stu should definitely know such intricacies). Finally, if it is a cut-and-dry as you say and if you are correct about IB and IEB why then is there any discussion about whether or not games will be vacated?

There's an old saying (which is molded to fit the situations), if you feel like you're smarter than someone then there's a good chance you are, but if you feel like you're smarter than everyone your probably not. I guess we'll see if this saying holds weight or if there are a bunch of ill-informed sports journalists, lawyers, and NCAA experts. Thanks again for the chat.

I'm aware you know the difference, but that did not occur until after I explained it to you. As for Bilas, you're assuming he's done that level of analysis. Clearly, his conclusion indicates he hasn't.

And when it comes to obtaining quotes for an article, I take it you're not too familiar with how those typically work. Let's just say that those discussions are not always rigorous.

The reason there is debate about vacating victories is because the COI is not beholden to that as a penalty. The have the leeway to choose from a number of options. It's the difference between a verdict and a sentence. Just because a verdict is reached, that does not mean that the sentence is no longer up for debate.

And as some unsolicited advice: if you're resorting to idioms to provide strength to your argument, you may want to consider re-evaluating your position.

 

[preacherfan]

FWIW, may be harsh, but my impression of Bethel is that he's someone that has a fairly ordinary job which happened to place him in a University atmosphere. This circumstance has led him to elevate his own estimation of his intellect beyond what it actually is. (i.e. he lives among and works with professors etc. so he considers himself at that same level.)

This documentary has provided him with an opportunity, at least in his mind, to 'save' the University from this scandal and he will be looked upon as the hero of Chapel Hill.

But as I said before that scenario may play out ONLY if the film is regarded exactly as he hopes it will be. (which is some sort of revelation which will lead UNC's critics to realize they were misguided and wrong in impugning UNC's stellar track record :gag: )

If it doesn't pan out that way however (and in fact if it backfires on him), he may end up not only being the butt of jokes on PackPride, but I highly doubt his 'colleagues' at UNC will be appreciative of his efforts either, because all it achieved was to bring more attention to the scandal and attract even more ridicule.

Bradley majored in English. While a major in English has a broad range of applications, it isn't exactly going to automatically lead to a well paid job like law, medicine, or engineering.

And, if you read the early blog entries on the scandal, his writing skills leave a LOT to be desired. That style might play well in academia but not in the so-called "real" world.

I think your earlier comments about cutting his losses on this ill-advised project would be good advice for him to follow. His margin for error is quite small and I continue to think that this is not going to end well for him.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Bradley majored in English. While a major in English has a broad range of applications, it isn't exactly going to automatically lead to a well paid job like law, medicine, or engineering.

As an English major and a lawyer, I take offense to that!

 

[KMKAT]

The media so bad wants UNC to get back to their regular ways......2 articles on front page of Yahoo! boasting about the return or their recruiting and Roy claiming the cloud has been lifted.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...academic-investigation-marcus-paige/75586956/

And there goes Roy complaining there were 6 investigations that took place, so he knows all that there is to know about the scandal.

Shoddy for UNC to come out and say the worst has passed.

 

[kybassfan]

No, I understand the difference, you explained it to me remember? However, something that you seem to miss is that Bilas is not just a sport journalist. His prior area of work surely conditioned him to be able to read and correctly interpret a NOA. Second, I think it's niive to think that sports journalists (or at least the one's who've weighed-in on this issue) don't do their due diligence, and ask others for technical commentary. In fact, Goodman quoted Stu Brown in his article (Stu should definitely know such intricacies). Finally, if it is a cut-and-dry as you say and if you are correct about IB and IEB why then is there any discussion about whether or not games will be vacated?

There's an old saying (which is molded to fit the situations), if you feel like you're smarter than someone then there's a good chance you are, but if you feel like you're smarter than everyone your probably not. I guess we'll see if this saying holds weight or if there are a bunch of ill-informed sports journalists, lawyers, and NCAA experts. Thanks again for the chat.

Sorry, thought I heard someone vomit, but it was just another Bobbi post.

Or maybe there isn't much difference.

 

[preacherfan]

As an English major and a lawyer, I take offense to that!

If you read my posts, one thing you will know for sure is that I didn't major in English![laughing]

 

[akaukswoosh]

Got a player with an agent this year. Player's mom took money illegally last year, and KU fans call Cal shady, and much worse.

 

[UK till Death]

KU has never won a title without coming off or going on probation, IIRC.

 

[anon1763419335]

how many languages does the guardian speak?

 

[KA4Prez_rivals78700]

Calipari is so dirty, he steers the problem children to KU!

I'm not going to blame Self or KU for Alexander or Diallo. It sounds like both of those guys potentially broke rules, well prior to coming to KU, and KU just got caught up in the frenzy.

However, can you imagine the damn headlines if this was back to back years at UK? Even if the scenario was identical...Calipari would be getting fried in the media.

 

[.S&C.]

how many languages does the guardian speak?

For the last time, he invented it.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

Calipari is so dirty, he steers the problem children to KU!

I'm not going to blame Self or KU for Alexander or Diallo. It sounds like both of those guys potentially broke rules, well prior to coming to KU, and KU just got caught up in the frenzy.

However, can you imagine the damn headlines if this was back to back years at UK? Even if the scenario was identical...Calipari would be getting fried in the media.

And both are very similar to the Camby scenario.

 

[.S&C.]

kansas. Lol.

They suck at this OAD thing.

At least they can "appear" to be close to similar to uk's equal. I mean, causal fans won't know the difference, right?

Bunny bread losers.

 

[.S&C.]

KU has never won a title without coming off or going on probation, IIRC.

That's the way I understand it.must be true there's not much room for error.

A couple titles and some bread banners.

 

[.S&C.]

For the thread before I forget.

UCLA
UK
UNC
Indiana
Duke



...............................


Uconn
Lousiville
Kansas
Florida
San Francisco

 

[UK till Death]

For the last time, he invented it.

Elfsa earswa airpieceha.

 

[preacherfan]

I consider this news to be horrible for all colleges and universities in the NCAA. Dragging this out this long is simply irresponsible considering that there has been ample time to do the investigation and make a final decision. I hate the NCAA. This isn't fair to the kid, fans or to KU bball, IMO.

 

[KA4Prez_rivals78700]

I consider this news to be horrible for all colleges and universities in the NCAA. Dragging this out this long is simply irresponsible considering that there has been ample time to do the investigation and make a final decision. I hate the NCAA. This isn't fair to the kid, fans or to KU bball, IMO.

It's taking this long because it sounds like there are serious issues. If he's ruled ineligible, then the time it takes isn't relevant. The fact that it is taking this long, and cutting into games, is bad, bad news for Kansas. They should almost assume he won't play, for now.

 

[brianpoe]

Got a player with an agent this year. Player's mom took money illegally last year, and KU fans call Cal shady, and much worse.

And....currently recruiting Thon Maker very hard, and he is supposed to have a ton of baggage.

 

[Ben101er]

and Ben McLemore.

And now they are leading for Maker.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

For the thread before I forget.

UCLA
UK
UNC
Indiana
Duke



...............................


Uconn
Lousiville
Kansas
Florida
San Francisco

Put Duke third and I'll agree.

 

[.S&C.]

Donovan did in 15 years at Florida what it took legend after legend at Kansas to do in 100.

Can we please not call them a blue blood. I feel it greatly diminishes what a blue blood should stand for.

 

[preacherfan]

It's taking this long because it sounds like there are serious issues. If he's ruled ineligible, then the time it takes isn't relevant. The fact that it is taking this long, and cutting into games, is bad, bad news for Kansas. They should almost assume he won't play, for now.

Thanks! That is a good take on the situation.

 

[gossie21_rivals69805]

I consider this news to be horrible for all colleges and universities in the NCAA. Dragging this out this long is simply irresponsible considering that there has been ample time to do the investigation and make a final decision. I hate the NCAA. This isn't fair to the kid, fans or to KU bball, IMO.

If I recall during the Kanter situation it wasn't the NCAA dragging their feet.

What happened is the NCAA developed what they determined to be their set of facts controlling the case. Payment amounts, the source of the payment, what the NCAA determined to be 'reasonable expenses' and many things like that. The delay was when UK tried to object to those facts and present additional information.

It seemed to the fans like the NCAA was dragging their feet because we didn't have a ruling. But the delay was because UK was fighting to get Kanter eligible. They just couldn't comment on the case.

I imagine that is what Kansas is dealing with as well. The NCAA has likely decided that the guardian is an agent. Now Kansas is trying to rebut that determination. It wouldn't surprise me if the NCAA digs their heels in on this one because of the Alexander case from last year.

 

[wromanp7]

I consider this news to be horrible for all colleges and universities in the NCAA. Dragging this out this long is simply irresponsible considering that there has been ample time to do the investigation and make a final decision. I hate the NCAA. This isn't fair to the kid, fans or to KU bball, IMO.

I hate the NCAA as well, but maybe the amount of time was acceptable with the exception of Diallo's camp fighting the decision.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Bill Self should recruit Gandalf and Luke Skywalker for next season since he's now in the business of signing superbly talented people who will never see the court.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Arthur's grades, the Pump brothers, Selby's car, McLemore's agent, Alexander taking money, Diallo question marks...

...I mean, I'd shut the hell up if I were a Kansas fan. Especially since by their math, that's about 43 issues.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Izzo doesn't mince words.

Michigan State ‏@Michigan_State 4h4 hours ago

Does Tom Izzo want Kansas big man Cheick Diallo to play on Tuesday? No way http://bit.ly/1MNh9X7 #Spartans pic.twitter.com/Emlbj8nd5l

 

[kybassfan]

I consider this news to be horrible for all colleges and universities in the NCAA. Dragging this out this long is simply irresponsible considering that there has been ample time to do the investigation and make a final decision. I hate the NCAA. This isn't fair to the kid, fans or to KU bball, IMO.

I agree. There seems to be no sense of urgency with the NCAA at all on these matters. I doubt the NCAA has had any new data in weeks, likely months. The kid could have pursued other opportunities or Kansas might have chosen not to recruit him. Further it sets an ugly precedent.

This is not unlike the endless delays with the NC debacle. They have sufficient data to act right now but the foot dragging has just begun.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

I consider this news to be horrible for all colleges and universities in the NCAA. Dragging this out this long is simply irresponsible considering that there has been ample time to do the investigation and make a final decision. I hate the NCAA. This isn't fair to the kid, fans or to KU bball, IMO.

There is another way to look at it that I think is increasingly likely:

The NCAA isn't dragging its feet, it has ruled: Diallo's handler was an agent, and that makes him permanently ineligible. Kansas has appealed. The appeal proceeds. Kansas has chosen not to publicize the initial NCAA decision, which was it's choice, not the NCAA's.

 

[VAWildcat15]

There is another way to look at it that I think is increasingly likely:

The NCAA isn't dragging its feet, it has ruled: Diallo's handler was an agent, and that makes him permanently ineligible. Kansas has appealed. The appeal proceeds. Kansas has chosen not to publicize the initial NCAA decision, which was it's choice, not the NCAA's.

The longer this goes on into the season the more I think this is what is happening. If he was clean to play the NCAA should have seen that by now and acted accordingly. I don't see any way this ends well for Kansas.

 

[BassCat75]

There is another way to look at it that I think is increasingly likely:

The NCAA isn't dragging its feet, it has ruled: Diallo's handler was an agent, and that makes him permanently ineligible. Kansas has appealed. The appeal proceeds. Kansas has chosen not to publicize the initial NCAA decision, which was it's choice, not the NCAA's.

I think this is definitely what's happened. The NCAA has made a ruling and it's now under appeal by KU.

 

[Spanish Radio]

Did a mod get his wires crossed?