The report listed Wayne Walden -- the associate director of ASPSA and academic counselor for a number of sports, including men's basketball from 2003 to 2009, and who has worked closely with Williams at both Kansas and North Carolina -- as one of the counselors who "steered players into these paper classes." It said Walden and his predecessor, Burgess McSwain, "routinely called Crowder to arrange classes for their players." The report also said Walden later played a role in the basketball players' move away from the paper-class system.
North Carolina Scandal Etc
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The report listed Wayne Walden -- the associate director of ASPSA and academic counselor for a number of sports, including men's basketball from 2003 to 2009, and who has worked closely with Williams at both Kansas and North Carolina -- as one of the counselors who "steered players into these paper classes." It said Walden and his predecessor, Burgess McSwain, "routinely called Crowder to arrange classes for their players." The report also said Walden later played a role in the basketball players' move away from the paper-class system.
Ok, great. Simple question though, what allegation(s) have they made against any MBB coaches or the MBB teams? What was the allegation(s) surrounding WW? Jay Bilas said none, do you disagree with him? If so please explain. We have the list of allegations, which one(s) name Roy/coaches in the allegation?
The UNC*** men's basketball team played players that received impermissible benefits. The men's basketball players attended fake classes (Impermissible benefits) making those players ineligible. All of those victories won with ineligible players need to be vacated and any championships won with ineligible players should be vacated and any money received for those "accomplishments" should be returned to the NCAA. We know the classes were fake based on Weinstein and the SACS reports.
Roy should have known what was going on so he should be hit with "Lack of Coach Control" just like Larry Brown.
This all ties in with the statement in the NOA below:
Specifically, individuals in the academic administration on campus, particularly in the college of arts and sciences, did not sufficiently monitor the AFRI/AFAM and ASPSA departments or provide appropriate supervision for these academic units and their staffs. The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that went unchecked for 18 years.
This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball. Although the general student body also had access to the anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses, student-athletes received preferential access to these anomalous courses, enrolled in these anomalous courses at a disproportionate rate to that of the general student body and received other impermissible benefits not available to the general student body in connection with these courses.
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BTW, I ran across this little nugget today:
On Wednesday, Governor Pat McCrory called it a "very disturbing report."
"It was academic fraud," McCrory said. "It was a disturbing reminder that if you forget your priorities of education and if you forget any oversight of those giving the education, bad things happen."
http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/26868242/uncw-academic-advisor-with-ties-to-unc-scandal-let-go
On Wednesday, Governor Pat McCrory called it a "very disturbing report."
"It was academic fraud," McCrory said. "It was a disturbing reminder that if you forget your priorities of education and if you forget any oversight of those giving the education, bad things happen."
http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/26868242/uncw-academic-advisor-with-ties-to-unc-scandal-let-go
I can only see one but these two perfectly encapsulate why it's possible to keep cheating on the down low at UNC . They are enablers more than willing to accept cheating , they don't condemn it at all but rather make excuses for it . So this is not just a UNC problem , it is a cultural problem that pervades all of UNC and extends all the way to the fans .
Look at who UNC has been able to use to whitewash this cheating . A former governor who ran a probe designed to hide more than reveal , a state attorney who dropped all charges for the supposed rogues , a judge who had his UNC gear on his Facebook page . Faculty that attacked Willingham for telling the truth and admonished her in a meeting .
Their fans have clearly demonstrated enabler status as witnessed on message boards or in the comment sections of articles exposing UNC . The board of directors over UNC has done nothing but buy whatever UNC says , a classic case of the tail wagging the dog . There is supporting your school and then there is a cult like environment that has everyone thinking the cause comes before everything .
Everyone wonders how did the Germans get seduced by the Nazis and it's because they loved the message (aka propaganda) more than the alternative . Like then UNC is the malignant ape leading a brainwashed populace into the abyss but hey they have the Carolina way .
Look at who UNC has been able to use to whitewash this cheating . A former governor who ran a probe designed to hide more than reveal , a state attorney who dropped all charges for the supposed rogues , a judge who had his UNC gear on his Facebook page . Faculty that attacked Willingham for telling the truth and admonished her in a meeting .
Their fans have clearly demonstrated enabler status as witnessed on message boards or in the comment sections of articles exposing UNC . The board of directors over UNC has done nothing but buy whatever UNC says , a classic case of the tail wagging the dog . There is supporting your school and then there is a cult like environment that has everyone thinking the cause comes before everything .
Everyone wonders how did the Germans get seduced by the Nazis and it's because they loved the message (aka propaganda) more than the alternative . Like then UNC is the malignant ape leading a brainwashed populace into the abyss but hey they have the Carolina way .
It's crazy UNC basketball fas are willing to throw it's entire academic integrity under the bus, if they just keep to keep a few basketball wins.
"We had fake classes for everyone, not just mens basketball players" seems like the worst defense ever. I guess if that's all they have.
"We had fake classes for everyone, not just mens basketball players" seems like the worst defense ever. I guess if that's all they have.
Ironically, my virus scanner took a hit when I tried to read that article. So has McCory called for an independent investigation?
Sorry about that. The article was a year old and was focused on the firing of Beth Bridger. She had the same title as Wayne Walden who was also listed as part of the basketball staff. NOBODY with a brain could possible think that the bball team is not implicated throughout the report. Bethel is playing games.
Hard to believe isn't it and fascinating to watch , almost like a case study for insanity . How far would they go , I mean what is the limit ? Whatever that may be I am entirely convinced that UNC is the school that would take it farther than anyone based on everything we've witnessed thus far . It's sad , pathetic and awesome all at the same time . I am enjoying their plight immensely given their attitude towards this scandal .
Yet, here we are, still waiting for you to explain to us where Jay was wrong; that is, what allegations named Roy/MBB coaches? Also, what allegation named Walden (think, remotely) and how was he named?
"The report states, "Bridger acknowledged that without the high grades received in these courses, it is possible that players might not have been eligible to compete under NCAA rules."
A generous comment that can be proven very simply by exposing the transcripts of the basketball team.
Once those are on the table, no UNC backer can say anything re: the definition of 'is' is.
Its time for UNC to start returning some serious money for their actions. Of course they're going to have to be forced to do it, because they have no intention on coming forward.
What could have been with Giles, Ingram and SKJ...........all to protect Roy and his falsified legacy.
A generous comment that can be proven very simply by exposing the transcripts of the basketball team.
Once those are on the table, no UNC backer can say anything re: the definition of 'is' is.
Its time for UNC to start returning some serious money for their actions. Of course they're going to have to be forced to do it, because they have no intention on coming forward.
What could have been with Giles, Ingram and SKJ...........all to protect Roy and his falsified legacy.
Who is this men's basketball the NCAA is referring to throughout their document?
Not the players?
Not the coaches?
Who Bobby?
The NCAA doesn't want to take national titles away because it blights the season and there is no champion . Having a fallback champion is soulless because the season was stolen by cheating schools like UNC in 2005 & 2009 with UL in 2013 . The second place team missed the celebration and honors . The schools should have to put an asterisk on their banners denoting that they were found to be in violation of rules during that season . Take the pride away from what was really a theft , let them keep it but let everybody know how they got it .
I think Bobby is trying to pin it on the literal rubber ball belonging to the men's basketball team.
"That gum-darn cheatin' men's basketball :basketball: !!"
Ok then, tell us what the allegations are against the MBB team? There are five allegations, which one specifically calls out the MBB team or coaches?
Factual information (FI) on which the enforcement staff relies for Allegations No. 1 - 4:
Men's basketball is cited over 40 times as FACTUAL evidence for this pathetic display of cheating.
Brad, you are a sad, sorry, little man.
What are the specific allegations against football or wbb? The NOA said those 3 sports were the primary beneficiaries of the impermissible benefits but did specifically name any one of the programs in the allegations. Boxill was charged but she was involved in other sports besides wbb. Hatchell wasn't charged with a violation but most UNC fans are convinced the women's team will be severely punished.
I was looking at the NOA tonight and reading the factual evidence listed for Allegation 1. As much as I don't trust the NCAA to do the right thing, it is going to be unbelievably hard for them to NOT hit men's bball.
I have NO idea how Bradley has come to believe that the men's bball team is going to escape serious punishment based on the facts. Maybe he really is that naive?
I have no idea what the NCAA is going to do. I never said they weren't going to get punished, I said they never played any ineligible players and they will not vacate any prior games. I've also asked which allegation specifically names Roy or any other coaches (what Bilas said today that so many here disagreed with).
Exactly. None. Or, if you'd rather read it from Corky:
"There were no specific charges tied to any men's basketball coaches or any coaches of any sport for that matter. " http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...tions-ncaa-looks-favorable-coach-roy-williams
Now, do you see how this is different from the Syracuse and SMU cases (in both coaches were named, along with players)?
Athletic wide allegations and men's basketball is mentioned 40 times in the evidentiary content... WTH?
Hmmmm. More crazy-talk from Jay Bilas:
J @WinOrGoHome 13h13 hours ago
@JayBilas Regarding UNC, the Men's BB program wasn't mentioned?!?! You're a damn liar!! Wow. You just lied on national television. #unc
Jay Bilas @JayBilas 13h13 hours ago
@WinOrGoHome No, there were no allegations of wrongdoing against UNC men's basketball or Roy Williams.
David Blevins @DKBlev 12h12 hours ago
@JayBilas ok...there were allegations of wrongdoing at UNC that directly benefitted men's bball & went unchecked for 2 decades. Semantics
Jay Bilas @JayBilas 11h11 hours ago
@DKBlev No, it's not semantics. It's called evidence. There was not evidence nor charges of Williams involved in any wrongdoing.
David Blevins @DKBlev 11h11 hours ago
@JayBilas I didn't say Williams.
Jay BilasVerified account@JayBilas
@DKBlev I did, in response to what was posited on SportsCenter. Williams and men's basketball were not named or charged with wrongdoing.
J @WinOrGoHome 13h13 hours ago
@JayBilas Regarding UNC, the Men's BB program wasn't mentioned?!?! You're a damn liar!! Wow. You just lied on national television. #unc
Jay Bilas @JayBilas 13h13 hours ago
@WinOrGoHome No, there were no allegations of wrongdoing against UNC men's basketball or Roy Williams.
David Blevins @DKBlev 12h12 hours ago
@JayBilas ok...there were allegations of wrongdoing at UNC that directly benefitted men's bball & went unchecked for 2 decades. Semantics
Jay Bilas @JayBilas 11h11 hours ago
@DKBlev No, it's not semantics. It's called evidence. There was not evidence nor charges of Williams involved in any wrongdoing.
David Blevins @DKBlev 11h11 hours ago
@JayBilas I didn't say Williams.
Jay BilasVerified account@JayBilas
@DKBlev I did, in response to what was posited on SportsCenter. Williams and men's basketball were not named or charged with wrongdoing.
Agree. Bilas is a very sensible guy most of the time but he's seriously hurting his credibility with this huge blind spot of his.
At some point ESPN employees need to decide whether the paycheck is enough reason to throw away whatever journalistic integrity they think they have while allowing John Skipper to set the narrative. Because at some point this whole scandal is going to blow up and there's going to be a lot of people (including journalists and politicians) who will hold some responsibility for allowing this charade to go on for as long as it has.
Bilas can be on the right side of this if he chooses, or he can end up with the countless others who have been fooled and have perpetuated the false 'Carolina Way' through the years.
Elmo, answer me this. Why does the NOA need to mention them specifically? I'll wait.
Agree! If Kentucky was in North Carolina shoes it would be all over ESPN & Networks like Louisville is today. Also Kentucky wouldn't be rated at all & North Carolina is rated number1.
I think it's time that the power conferences put a stop to all of this double standard that NCAA & ESPN has been doing for years.
I believe your statement. This is one reason why I won't be able to understand the NCAA waffling or soft peddling penalties. The NC mindset is completely at odds with the NCAAs professed model of compliance which is rooted (I mistyped rotted initially. Freudian I guess.) in self policing and self punishment.
As I said, UNC plans on laying this entire scandal, as idiotic and unbelievable as it sounds, at the feet of the women's basketball program. They seriously think they can sell that.
Jay Bilas knows who signs his checks. He is not going to go against the ESPN company line. Their president has went out of his way to protect the image of the "Carolina Way". He has done so at the expense of his reputation as well as those that work for him.
Exposing UNC, ESPN and the NCAA for the fraud's that they are, has been the best part of this whole situation. The Charlotte paper, NC State students and fans along with JP Scott and other UK fans have outdone 3 major sports entities in their investigation skills as well as competency.
Keeping this story alive will continue to be a thorn in the side of all of those that want to sweep this under the rug.
I say BRAVO to all of you that are continuing to hold those same entities accountable!!
Exposing UNC, ESPN and the NCAA for the fraud's that they are, has been the best part of this whole situation. The Charlotte paper, NC State students and fans along with JP Scott and other UK fans have outdone 3 major sports entities in their investigation skills as well as competency.
Keeping this story alive will continue to be a thorn in the side of all of those that want to sweep this under the rug.
I say BRAVO to all of you that are continuing to hold those same entities accountable!!
If Pitino must go because he wasn't aware his players were receiving impermissible benefits, why shouldn't Roy Williams? Ignorance isn't an excuse for Pitino, but it is for Roy?
agreed
if UL fans were smart they would be emailing ESPN with thousands of emails asking why they have not given this much coverage to the UNC systematic academic fraud case
i stated in a much earlier thread that the general public would view buying hookers for players/recruits much worse than academic fraud
Fire Roy for what? He wasn't even accused of misconduct, he wasn't even mentioned in the NOA. Did Syracuse fire Jim? Did SMU fire Brown? They both were proven to have violated bylaws. Roy wasn't even accused of violating any bylaws. Don't be a hater.
BTW, it was confirmed to me that you are Bethel. What I do get is why in the world are you even here or doing that stupid documentary?
First, you are a bandwagon fan. You aren't from UNC or were historically a UNC fan.
Second, this scandal hasn't gotten a lot of play in the media (unlike Penn State). Who really cares outside of avid bball fans? Was it worth over $100K?
Third, Multiple bball players maintained eligiblity by taking the fraudulent classes as determined by Sacs. So, you are going to argue that since UNC validated the classes that were designed and implemented by a secretary and not a real professor and the NCAA accepted that, then Roy and the bball team are in the clear?????
Finally, what about the UNC code of ethics? I am sure that somehow you are going to spin it so that supporters of men's basketball are proud of their championship teams even though multiple players took fraudulent classes to remain eligible.
Since no specific charges were made against any of the programs I guess you believe that none of them will be punished. I'd be willing to bet $100 against a new pair of shoes that you're wrong.
We've already discussed this, many times. You know what my arguments are related to eligibility. No need to state them again. No ineligible players, and no vacating of games. That is what I'm saying. You can go back and read the reasons why I'm saying this.
Oh, fyi, I'm not Bethel. So, you should probably get a better source.
I'm not making any predictions on penalties, only that they didn't play any ineligible players. We all know the NCAA can do what they want. I'm just glad you finally see that Roy/MBB were not named (in fact, no teams were named in the allegations), and so Jay Bilas is not being a homer, he's stating facts.
Isn't it odd that so many are complaining that the NCAA never punishes UNC or Duke, yet the chances are high that they will impose some form of penalties on them even though they couldn't find anything specific through their investigations?
I understand your position. What I don't understand is why the documentary? My point is that NO matter what the NCAA decides, UNC players and numerous people associated with the athletic programs violated ethics, lied, and maintained eligiblity by fraud (according to SACS). A documentary claiming that we were not punished by the NCAA when EVERYONE in the world knows there was massive corruption (KW's word) seems like an incredibly stupid idea!
PS - My source is good.
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