North Carolina Scandal Etc

[catfan111]

Hey Bobby answer the questions. If the scandal was academic and not athletic why was the make up of students 48% athletes and should the athletic department and players be punished. If you think not explain why. Don't be a chicken just man up and answer!!!!!

 

[TUL]

Anyone see that BRad is now working at a shoe store or some such nonsense....Townsend Bertram and Co... And who hired him there? Amy Kleissler, former learning specialist at UNC. It is insane how in bed they are all over there.

 

[preacherfan]

Sorry, but I put no stock in an article written by a guy making a documentary about how the media is sensationalizing this very real scandal. Bethel is far from objective and has zero credibility.

How about the fact that the lady helping him said that the scandal was similar to what happened at Penn St? [roll]Does UNC want to be compared to UNC or are these people doing the movie that stupid?

 

[preacherfan]

Anyone see that BRad is now working at a shoe store or some such nonsense....Townsend Bertram and Co... And who hired him there? Amy Kleissler, former learning specialist at UNC. It is insane how in bed they are all over there.

Really? [roll]Al Bundy!

 

[Barong23]

UNC has no heart. When the time comes they will wither like Dean Smith's nuts.

 

[jarms24]

Bobby took his ball and went home. Shame

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Wondering how long it takes before UNC fans start discrediting CNN as a news source:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/us/ncaa-academic-fraud

"When football season begins, the University of North Carolina Tar Heels will have more than just 12 games to worry about. They're also facing the looming judgment of the NCAA infractions board for the worst academic fraud case in the history of college sports."

 

[catfan111]

He's waiting for Bethel to tell him what to type next. Didn't think he would turn chicken and not answer questions.

 

[jarms24]

Wondering how long it takes before UNC fans start discrediting CNN as a news source:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/us/ncaa-academic-fraud

"When football season begins, the University of North Carolina Tar Heels will have more than just 12 games to worry about. They're also facing the looming judgment of the NCAA infractions board for the worst academic fraud case in the history of college sports."

According to the NCAA rules, if cheating benefited the eligibility of an athlete, and a member of the university staff knowingly participated, it is considered academic fraud.

Student-Athletes (mostly mbb and fb) - CHECK
Fake Classes (confirmed via Martin & Wainstein) - CHECK
An email showing Wayne Walden had explicit knowledge and coordinated bogus classes via Crowder - MATE

 

[BBUK_anon]

According to the NCAA rules, if cheating benefited the eligibility of an athlete, and a member of the university staff knowingly participated, it is considered academic fraud.

Student-Athletes (mostly mbb and fb) - CHECK
Fake Classes (confirmed via Martin & Wainstein) - CHECK
An email showing Wayne Walden had explicit knowledge and coordinated bogus classes via Crowder - MATE

Problem is...the ncaa frequently changes the game/rules mid-stream. I will be very happy if they don't...this time.

 

[jarms24]

Problem is...the ncaa frequently changes the game/rules mid-stream. I will be very happy if they don't...this time.

I'm starting to think they're under enough scrutiny that they know they have to swing a big hammer. Just too many eyes on this one, and Emmert can't really tell a judge that they're paying players with an education, when you're letting schools set up fake majors that extend well past 20+ years. Not to mention the whole Congress factor. He got bent over last year on the Hill. They threatened to call him back. It was brutal. Doubt he wants another dose of that.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Couple of things.

First, I did not think preacherfan would find people who sell shoes a joke. Is this a joke of a job?

Second, to answer catfan again, the NCAA will punish UNC team(s) if players broke the rules...doesn't matter what I think. However, you're fighting an uphill battle if you think Crowder set them up for athletes...you're more accurate and better off saying academic counselors used these classes. So, is it their fault or the fault of the faculty who assured them everything was on the up-and-up? I think we know what the answer to that is based off of the recent actions of one faculty member who was in charge of overseeing the AFAM department during these courses.

 

[BBUK_anon]

Couple of things.

First, I did not think preacherfan would find people who sell shoes a joke. Is this a joke of a job?

Second, to answer catfan again, the NCAA will punish UNC team(s) if players broke the rules...doesn't matter what I think. However, you're fighting an uphill battle if you think Crowder set them up for athletes...you're more accurate and better off saying academic counselors used these classes. So, is it their fault or the fault of the faculty who assured them everything was on the up-and-up? I think we know what the answer to that is based off of the recent actions of one faculty member who was in charge of overseeing the AFAM department during these courses.

Now I understand!!!! It is the "Trust Me" defense unc will use. Everyone told unc to "trust me" and unc obliged and was taken advantage by a lot of bad people. I didn't understand it before but I do now. Thanks Elmo...

Please stop all these threads and posts now...."Trust Me"...

 

[trav55_rivals214556]

Come on man. Stop with the ignorance. you know and everybody else knows all of this crap is cheating and people knew about it. The classes were fake and athletes used them. I don't give a rats *** why in they were set up, who set them up and who used them. Athletes used them, emails were written to help athletes get in these fake programs and that's all there is to it.

You keep defending the athletic program and acting as though they are innocent and it's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Wouldn't it be even more embarrassing if there were several fake courses and they weren't even set up to help athletes, but rather more importantly, that general educational classes were for everyone? Isn't that a huge disappointment if the college that you cheer for knowingly and wrongfully set up courses that anyone could go to and get a diploma?! Doesn't that ruin the face of what was thought to be an upstanding and well respected university?!?!

So again, you've talked me into it. First, I was of the opinion that they should just shut the athletic department down. But you know what? You've made me think otherwise, they should just shut the entire university down since ANYONE can use fake classes for a degree!!!

I wish you could see the complete moronic opinion that you have from everyone else's stand point. It's hilarious to be honest. Please, stop talking. I have several friends that are unc fans and you're making them all look incredibly dumber. They'd appreciate your silence.

 

[BBUK_anon]

Come on man. Stop with the ignorance. you know and everybody else knows all of this crap is cheating and people knew about it. The classes were fake and athletes used them. I don't give a rats *** why in they were set up, who set them up and who used them. Athletes used them, emails were written to help athletes get in these fake programs and that's all there is to it.

You keep defending the athletic program and acting as though they are innocent and it's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Wouldn't it be even more embarrassing if there were several fake courses and they weren't even set up to help athletes, but rather more importantly, that general educational classes were for everyone? Isn't that a huge disappointment if the college that you cheer for knowingly and wrongfully set up courses that anyone could go to and get a diploma?! Doesn't that ruin the face of what was thought to be an upstanding and well respected university?!?!

So again, you've talked me into it. First, I was of the opinion that they should just shut the athletic department down. But you know what? You've made me think otherwise, they should just shut the entire university down since ANYONE can use fake classes for a degree!!!

I wish you could see the complete moronic opinion that you have from everyone else's stand point. It's hilarious to be honest. Please, stop talking. I have several friends that are unc fans and you're making them all look incredibly dumber. They'd appreciate your silence.

I'm telling you, it is the "Trust Me" defense. Watch and see...

 

[jarms24]

you're fighting an uphill battle if you think Crowder set them up for athletes.

Per Wainstein's report

In an effort to answer this question, we identified the following six possible motives for their actions:

1. They were compassionate people who wanted to lend a helping hand to struggling students and student-athletes who needed academic support.
2. They were sports fans and wanted to boost the fortunes of Chapel Hill’s teams by helping to keep the players eligible.
3. They were pressured to offer these paper classes by the Athletics Department and/or the ASPSA counselors.
4. They believed that the University and the administration wanted them to help student-athletes in this way.
5. They used these paper classes as a way of attracting more students and thereby enhancing both AFAM’s enrollment numbers and the Department’s stature within the University.
6. They used these classes as a means of boosting their compensation from the University

Bob, Wainstein investigated the damn thing. He saw documentation that will never surface, and even he didn't rule out that they were created for student-athletes. I'm not sure how you or your girlfriend Bethel can totally discount that they were created for student-athletes when he couldn't. Matter of fact, when you look at the stat I posted above, it would heavily indicate that they were primarily used for student-athletes. I get that you're a blind homer, but don't compound the problem by being a moron.

Student-athletes made up 47.4% of the bogus classes, yet they only comprise 4% of the university student body. [poop]

 

[.S&C.]

Couple of things.

First, I did not think preacherfan would find people who sell shoes a joke. Is this a joke of a job?

Second, to answer catfan again, the NCAA will punish UNC team(s) if players broke the rules...doesn't matter what I think. However, you're fighting an uphill battle if you think Crowder set them up for athletes...you're more accurate and better off saying academic counselors used these classes. So, is it their fault or the fault of the faculty who assured them everything was on the up-and-up? I think we know what the answer to that is based off of the recent actions of one faculty member who was in charge of overseeing the AFAM department during these courses.

lol

It's far easier to just accept the truth man. UNC had little standards for its athletes, and broke many ethical and NCAA rules. You and your people are making UNC look worse and worse by the day. Truth be told, I can respect cheating to an extent. When sports aren't part of your life or haven't been a huge chunk of your life, you won't understand that. But UNC was cheating WHILE acting as if cheating is a "them"problem, and now when it's blown out of the water, you won't just man up.

Its not a good look for UNC at all but Duke is now the state's school, and UNC and its reputation is getting destroyed in the sports world. Just let it go and move in the proper direction. Take the penalties and keep some dignity for the UNC name.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Per Wainstein's report

In an effort to answer this question, we identified the following six possible motives for their actions:

1. They were compassionate people who wanted to lend a helping hand to struggling students and student-athletes who needed academic support.
2. They were sports fans and wanted to boost the fortunes of Chapel Hill’s teams by helping to keep the players eligible.
3. They were pressured to offer these paper classes by the Athletics Department and/or the ASPSA counselors.
4. They believed that the University and the administration wanted them to help student-athletes in this way.
5. They used these paper classes as a way of attracting more students and thereby enhancing both AFAM’s enrollment numbers and the Department’s stature within the University.
6. They used these classes as a means of boosting their compensation from the University

Bob, Wainstein investigated the damn thing. He saw documentation that will never surface, and even he didn't rule out that they were created for student-athletes. I'm not sure how you or your girlfriend Bethel can totally discount that they were created for student-athletes when he couldn't. Matter of fact, when you look at the stat I posted above, it would heavily indicate that they were primarily used for student-athletes. I get that you're a blind homer, but don't compound the problem by being a moron.

Student-athletes made up 47.4% of the bogus classes, yet they only comprise 4% of the university student body. [poop]

Did you really read the first sentence?

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Its not a good look for UNC at all but Duke is now the state's school

Amen, and NC State may very well be #2 if the NCAA acts appropriately and hands down a proper punishment.

2 of the top 5 players in the entire 2016 class (Giles and Smith) are from North Carolina, and neither is realistically considering UNC. That would have been unheard of as recently as 3-4 years ago. That should tell you all you need to know about the state of UNC's program at the moment.

 

[richbrookstomato]

Couple of things.

First, I did not think preacherfan would find people who sell shoes a joke. Is this a joke of a job?

Second, to answer catfan again, the NCAA will punish UNC team(s) if players broke the rules...doesn't matter what I think. However, you're fighting an uphill battle if you think Crowder set them up for athletes...you're more accurate and better off saying academic counselors used these classes. So, is it their fault or the fault of the faculty who assured them everything was on the up-and-up? I think we know what the answer to that is based off of the recent actions of one faculty member who was in charge of overseeing the AFAM department during these courses.

LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL!!!!

Ignorance of the law is no excuse!!!

 

[catfan111]

Yeah Bobby the first sentence makes our point. Students AND STUDENT ATHLETES!!!!!!

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Yeah Bobby the first sentence makes our point. Students AND STUDENT ATHLETES!!!!!!

Uh...what?

The first sentence says that the list following it is based purely on conjectures. That means it is not the conclusion.

 

[catfan111]

Ok bobby answer this. In your opinion why do you think the fake classes were invented and did athletics benefit from them? Be honest.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

I believe, as Wainstein concluded, the classes were started by Crowder to help out students that she felt were at a disadvantage.

Yes, some athletes took some of these courses.

This is all in Wainstein's report.

 

[trav55_rivals214556]

Ok bobby answer this. In your opinion why do you think the fake classes were invented and did athletics benefit from them? Be honest.

I was about to ask the same thing. Part of me feels like we're talking to a 4 year old though. You can't make any sense out of what a 4 year old says when you ask realistic questions.

Bobs point seems to be that the fake courses weren't set up initially for the athletes. Then, disregarding unc doing any wrong because they were set up for common students.

But Bob, Lexus' weren't built for the purpose of schools giving them to athletes to convince them to play for their school. That doesn't mean it's ok. If you give a recruit a Lexus, you're wrong! Simple as I can put it.

So as far as who set up the classes initially, who they were meant for, how many regular students were in them and other excuses, they don't matter!!! UNC PUT ATHLETES IN FAKE CLASSES TO KEEP THEM EASILY ELIGIBLE. That's all there is to it.

Look man, they knew what they were doing. It's unarguable. When regular students were put in their classes, they knew what they were doing there too!

What pisses people off the most, in my opinion, is that all the while, UNC was pounding the "Carolina way" drum and sticking their holier than thou nose in the air.

Your rebuttles just add to the frustration. You aren't that stupid (or stupid at all). You know what happened and are trying to confuse people like a politician getting asked about same sex marriage and answering about the war on drugs or the national deficit. So please stop and just take the heat. It's easier that way.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Yes, some athletes took some of these courses.

Some athletes took some of these courses? I believe the stat was 47% of those enrolled in these courses were athletes. That's a little more than "some." In fact, it's more like "almost half" of the students who took these courses were athletes.

You're trying to sweep this under the rug on the wrong board, and that's coming from a Duke fan.

 

[preacherfan]

Some athletes took some of these courses? I believe the stat was 47% of those enrolled in these courses were athletes. That's a little more than "some." In fact, it's more like "almost half" of the students who took these courses were athletes.

You're trying to sweep this under the rug on the wrong board, and that's coming from a Duke fan.

AND, as JPScott often points out, NOBODY bothered to check into who the other students were. We know that UNC didn't count former athletes who came back to complete degrees as athletes for the percentage. What about girlfriends of athletes, team managers, and other athletic personnel? The REAL percentage of athletic interests enrolled in these classes is no doubt much higher than 47%.

 

[catfan111]

I believe, as Wainstein concluded, the classes were started by Crowder to help out students that she felt were at a disadvantage.

Yes, some athletes took some of these courses.

This is all in Wainstein's report.

I'm not asking about the report. In your opinion did athletes and athletics benefit from the fake classes? Yes or no.

 

[Lumpy 2]

I believe, as Wainstein concluded, the classes were started by Crowder to help out students that she felt were at a disadvantage.

Yes, some athletes took some of these courses.

This is all in Wainstein's report.

And if they didn't have enough credits to be eligible without the bogus classes they should be declared ineligible and all games they participated in should be forfeited.

 

[catfan111]

Guess Bobby G left the building and doesn't wanna play anymore.

 

[UKrazycat2_rivals]

I believe, as Wainstein concluded, the classes were started by Crowder to help out students that she felt were at a disadvantage.

Yes, some athletes took some of these courses.

This is all in Wainstein's report.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. Congrats Bob. Get well soon.

 

[jarms24]

Uh...what?

The first sentence says that the list following it is based purely on conjectures. That means it is not the conclusion.

Exactly dumbass, so why are you and your girlfriend saying the classes definitively weren't for student athletes when not even Wainstein could reach that conclusion?

 

[Marylandis1]

How long has Perry Ellis been around? I think he was there back in the Danny Manning days. Just one of those guys that seem to be at a school a long, long time.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Exactly dumbass, so why are you and your girlfriend saying the classes definitively weren't for student athletes when not even Wainstein could reach that conclusion?

What??? Where did it say in your posting of the possible motives that Wainstein couldn't or didn't come to that conclusion, or any conclusions for that matter? You simply posted their six possibilities and then did not further elaborate on their findings concerning those possibilities.

I'm thinking you're just playing dumb to insult me. Surely you read what you post.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Guess Bobby G left the building and doesn't wanna play anymore.

Uh, I gave you my opinion/answer to your question. In case you missed it...

"I believe, as Wainstein concluded, the classes were started by Crowder to help out students that she felt were at a disadvantage.

Yes, some athletes took some of these courses."

 

[MNantz]

Hey Bobby we all know you can't change your tune now, you would look even more foolish than you already do. The BOTTOM LINE UNC cheated their asses off for over twenty years, the "Carolina Way" has been exposed for what it really is. Now act like a man. own up to and admit mistakes and clean up the cesspool that is UNCheat basketball and football. Or keep op this silly act of innocence , is really getting old.

 

[Mr. Anderson23]

Bwaaaahahahahahahaha!! Love you dillusional ku fans....you will flame out pre final four like every yr with or without diallo. UK is deeper and coached better, like every yr. Personally, I never fear ku, especially in tourney.

We definitely won't be deeper and coached better is arguable.

But we could definitely still be ranked higher, win the game and go further in the tourney.

It'll be fun to see them evenly matched for once. Hasn't happened in a decade or so.

 

[catfan111]

Uh, I gave you my opinion/answer to your question. In case you missed it...

"I believe, as Wainstein concluded, the classes were started by Crowder to help out students that she felt were at a disadvantage.

Yes, some athletes took some of these courses."

I asked if you if you felt the athletes and athletic department benefited from the fake classes. We all know they took them. The numbers don't lie. 48% of the students were athletes. Just curious if you felt they benefited from it by keeping players eligible and such. If you don't think they benefited from it explain why.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1574246

Who says I only post good things in regards to UNC? Well...here ya go.

 

[Mike-D]

What a train wreck.