Non-Stansbury basketball observation.

[Hanmudog]

Watching teams like Kentucky, Michigan State, Syracuse, etc. this week and noticing thei players. Then watching our game against Bama. Our talent level is no where near top 15 level with the current team we have. With Sidney.....probably. With Kodi giving a crap.....possibly. I just had a hard time imagining any of our guys other than Bost or Varnado even getting much PT at some of the top schools.

We have got a long way to go in order to get to the level that so many on here want becuase you have to have the hosses.

Note: Please keep this to the players only and not another Stansbury thread.

 

[Hanmudog]

Watching teams like Kentucky, Michigan State, Syracuse, etc. this week and noticing thei players. Then watching our game against Bama. Our talent level is no where near top 15 level with the current team we have. With Sidney.....probably. With Kodi giving a crap.....possibly. I just had a hard time imagining any of our guys other than Bost or Varnado even getting much PT at some of the top schools.

We have got a long way to go in order to get to the level that so many on here want becuase you have to have the hosses.

Note: Please keep this to the players only and not another Stansbury thread.

 

[Hanmudog]

Watching teams like Kentucky, Michigan State, Syracuse, etc. this week and noticing thei players. Then watching our game against Bama. Our talent level is no where near top 15 level with the current team we have. With Sidney.....probably. With Kodi giving a crap.....possibly. I just had a hard time imagining any of our guys other than Bost or Varnado even getting much PT at some of the top schools.

We have got a long way to go in order to get to the level that so many on here want becuase you have to have the hosses.

Note: Please keep this to the players only and not another Stansbury thread.

 

[patdog]

Otherwise you're right. Ravern can shoot but can't do anything else. Kodi is just in his own world most of the time. And Barry is a good defender but an offensive liability.

 

[8dog]

d

 

[fishwater99]

So you think Ole Miss has top 15 talent, top 25? We beat them already this year in Oxford. We have the talent the problem is Stans is not using our players strenghts to help our team out.Stop making excuses, we have a talented team in Vegas.... We need a coach he can implement a real offense, it all comes back to Stans failing to hire an offensive assistant running that pathetic offense. Live and Die by the 3 ball... We are MSU..

We need Renardo BAD...

 

[Columbus Dawg]

lightest starting 5 in the country. We will struggle with any physical team. Washington was a strong team and they killed us. Bama played physical and we had no semblance of a half court offense. UK, Mich. State, Syracuse etc. are just way more physical than we are. Our only option is to run and play full court, but we leave the style of the game to our opponent.

 

[Hanmudog]

I made an observation about our talent compared to top 15 teams and plainly asked to not turn this into another bitchfest. I am just not so sure that we have the talent of the very top teams. Sure we have top 25 talent but there is a gigantic gap in what we have and those top 10 or so teams. We don't have the bulk or quickness that many of them have. That is just my opinion. We need a talent infusion if we want to get to that elite level.
If you want to ***** about Stans then choose one of the other 500 freaking threads about it.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

He is still making mistakes on the court but he is busting his *** every time he has hit the floor recently. That being said, I think outside of Vanardo and possibly Bost (who still has a ways to go) your analysis of our overall player talent and depth is spot on. I am extremely disappointed in the development of Ravern and Kodi. They could be killers, but they are not and I am not sure whether all the blame is on Stans for those two considering their weird on court personalities. They are either hot or dead cold. I think we all may have overestimated our returning team.

I would love to see what Osby and Phil Turner could do with more minutes right now.

 

[MSUDawg25]

You would think with our team being so light we could just run flat out and try to wear other teams down, but we can't do that withthree of the starting five playing over 36 minutes a game. I think Benock could provide some decent minutes off the bench if he would just SHOOT THE F'ING BALL when he got an open three.I agree about Osby, Ravern, and Kodi.

 

[Hanmudog]

He is still making mistakes on the court but he is busting his *** every time he has hit the floor recently. That being said, I think outside of Vanardo and possibly Bost (who still has a ways to go) your analysis of our overall player talent and depth is spot on. I am extremely disappointed in the development of Ravern and Kodi. They could be killers, but they are not and I am not sure whether all the blame is on Stans for those two considering their weird on court personalities. They are either hot or dead cold. I think we all may have overestimated our returning team.

I would love to see what Osby and Phil Turner could do with more minutes right now.

I don't think Osby is there just yet but he does at least put forth the effort and has some talent. Samegoes for Lewis. Both will be good players for us by the time they are juniors or seniors. Watching those two play just pisses me off more about the effort that Ravern and Kodi have been giving.

 

[AConstipatedMonkey]

and was laughed at. I think Top 25 talent is stretching it. We're getting by on blood, sweat, threes, blocks, and the lowest foul rate in the country. Every East team in the SEC is more talented than us except USC, and we're just ahead of LSU and Auburn in the West. One could make a case for having more pure talent than Arkansas, but I just think they're a horribly coached team with tons of talent.

 

[MSUDawg25]

On a related note, Kentucky is swimming in talent and getting beat by South Carolina right now.

 

[fishwater99]

So glad you agree we have top 25 talent. That should be good for a ranking and a trip to the sweet 16. Once Renardo is cleared all bets are off... We have the talent... Just look at USC beating UK right now... Are we more talented than USC? I think so... It is not the talent, maybe our depth at the 1 & 2, not talent...That leaves one thing..........

 

[MSUDawg25]

You are really determined to make this a Stansbury thread. I'm not going to bite though.

 

[AConstipatedMonkey]

I love the idea of replacing Ravern and Kodi with Turner and Osby, The offensive loss would be more than recovered with their defensive intensity and rebounding prowess. With Kentucky, Florida, and Vandy still to come, we can't have any defensive liabilities in our backcourt.

 

[Hanmudog]

That is why I said the team we have RIGHT NOW is not as talented as the top 10-15 teams. Anyone can watch these top teams play and see that. The speed and strenth just are not there with our team. Again who besides Varnado and Bost would Syracuse, West Virginia, UK, Kansas, Duke, Villanova, Texas, Kansas State, UConn, Michigan State,etc want? I am not saying we are not talented but that the gap is huge from the top 10-15 to the top 15-25.
SC leading UK does not mean jackshit as far as this discussion goes. It just proves that no matter how talented or well coached you are, upsets still can happen. The difference is that their fans won't go apeshit and complain about a SC loss for the next couple of years.

 

[MSUDawg25]

Osby was horrible last year, but he is improving by leaps and bounds. Ravern just has not really improved any over the last two years. He is still a shooter and nothing else.

 

[fishwater99]

Most teams would be glad to have him, Ravern, Kodiand Turner.. Theyhave talent, problem someone is not utilizing it to the better of the team. Where are the ball screens for Bost, Ravern, Osby, Kodi, or Turnerto get the open 3, where are the back picks to free Osby,Ravern, Kodi, Swat or Turnerfor a dunk? We have talent...We don't have a freaking offense worth a ****.. We live and Die by the 3 ball..... Open your eyes....

 

[MSUDawg25]

If you have a problem with stans, (I don't know if you do. I'm having a hard time picking up on your subtle hints.)direct your emails to Greg Byrne. It has been discussed to death, and I don't care to discuss it. This thread was just about what kind of talent State has.

 

[Hanmudog]

I have said no less than 3 times in this thread that we have talent, just not top 10-15 talent which is what alot on here seem to think that we have. Is the Sweet 16 not supposed to be the top 16 teams? Our talent matches up better with the teams in the 15-25 spots.

 

[fishwater99]

Hanmudog[/b]]I have said no less than 3 times in this thread that we have talent, just not top 10-15 talent which is what alot on here seem to think that we have. Is the Sweet 16 not supposed to be the top 16 teams? Our talent matches up better with the teams in the 15-25 spots.

MSU has had top 15-25 talent several years since our Final Four, but we have not been close...
We made it back in 1996.... Let's just hope we get good news from Bryan Hot Dogs real soon.
Stans better land Deville, Hood, Ammons, andAdams for 2011...

 

[MSUDawg25]

We need to do well in 2011 recruiting. We've got two guys committed for this year, and neither one is that impressive as far as I know.</p>

 

[fishwater99]

nm

 

[lawdawg02]

the other players are complementary, and we certainly can match that. but downey creates the offense for them, and we don't have anyone that can do that. bost has shown glimpses of that ability recently, but he's nowhere near downey's level offensively. granted, i don't want bost to start jacking up 30 shots a game, but we lack the one offensive player who can take over a game. our team is a bunch of shooters. they can't take it to the goal and if they're pushed around, they'll struggle. see last year's conference play.

 

[lawdawg02]

we're gearing up for 2011. i think stans knows he needs a home run with all the in-state talent in 2011.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

PPG:
Freshman - 9.8
Sophomore - 11.5
Junior - 12.4
Senior - 11.2

I'll be the first to agree that Barry hasn't been developed very well (that "Barry at the point" experiment ... *shudder*), but offensive liability?

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Not been close Fishwater? One possession away two years ago against one of the top 5 teams in the last decade was not close? Getting beat by Texas, Xavier, and Butler were huge upsets, and we also were in position to beat Duke.

Where is all this talent? We have no beef, depth, or offensive skill in the post. Our 2 guard didn't receive a DI offer, there may be 5-6 PG's just in the SEC better than Bost, Turner wasn't recruited, ect... Just b/c Osby was recruited doesn't mean he'd be getting playing time at a big school.

Saying we have all this talent is just a way for the bashers to have more ammo against our coach, when in fact we've clearly overachieved over the last 8 years

 

[Johnson85]

where he could just shoot open shots and play defense, but for us, he's made a lot of turnovers trying to step up when he really is not quite the player to do it. Liability may still be a strong word. He's just limited. If he were the clear fourth option for a team, people would not think of him as being anything close to a liability.

 

[Bdog9090]

there may be 5-6 PG's just in the SEC better than Bost

Name them.

 

[KurtRambis4]

makes you think we have top 25 talent. I'm not flaming, just interested at why you think this. I would like to know. Is it because you think so, or do have some kind of evidence? Again, not flaming, I'm just interested in how you arived at your opinion.

 

[Hanmudog]

makes you think we have top 25 talent. I'm not flaming, just interested at why you think this. I would like to know. Is it because you think so, or do have some kind of evidence? Again, not flaming, I'm just interested in how you arived at your opinion.

Jarvis was the only the player we had on the preseason All SEC team. At the time it surprised me but as the season has played out, I am beginning to agree with it.

 

[8dog]

Georgia, and Auburn all had 1 player on the team as well.

Only Ole Miss, TN, KY, and South Carolina had multiples. And Archie is out so SC really only had 1 as well.

 

[Johnson85]

but overall, I think we have a team that should be somewhere between 20 and 25 based on talent. We obviously have an excellent shotblocker, which takes pressure off the rest of our defense. Dee Bost it is a good point guard. I think he would be better not playing 36-38 minutes a game. Ravern is a good shooter, if a little streaky. Kodi, Phil, and Stewart are all solid shooters. Kodi could cause plenty of matchupsif usedright. Turner is a good glue guy. Pretty much everybody that's been mentioned have the physical capability to play good defense, especially with JV as a security blanket to save them if they're too aggressive or get beat. I say that's a team that should scare the crap out of people when they're shooting well, and should be moderately dangerous when they're just having average shooting nights.

On the down side, we don't have a go to scorer, Kodi is something of a head case, Ravern is adamant that he will not play defense, our strength coach has apparently been on hiatus for the past three years, and the biggest problem, losing Elgin Bailey and Twaney beckam left us with too little depth in the post and one ball handler. Even Smith staying healthy would have at least let us keep Benock off the floor.

I don't think this is a team that should make it to the sweet 16; this is a team that could make it if they're playing well though, as long as they don't end up in the 8/9 slot.

 

[Hanmudog]

Georgia, and Auburn all had 1 player on the team as well.

Only Ole Miss, TN, KY, and South Carolina had multiples. And Archie is out so SC really only had 1 as well.

We were picked to be one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the SEC but only had one player on the entire first or second team All SEC. UK, UT, and Ole Miss were the other favorites and all had more than one guy on the list.
If we don't have All SEC talent then I just don't see why folks think we have Sweet 16 talent. We have decent players surrounding a really good player in Varnado. Sidney would have made all the difference in the world.

 

[8dog]

that our talent was as good as ole miss's. They have the edge on the perimeter, us down low.

8 other teams only have 1 player on the all sec team. So (according to your talent measuring scale) that puts us with or above the talent level of all but 2 teams. Obviously we don't have the talent of KY. TN is still a mystery.

I think there is plenty of reason to think we have the talent to be better than we are.

And frankly, the talent argument is a red herring. We had 2 first team all sec players AND the defensive player of the year 2 years ago and were an 8 seed.

 

[Hanmudog]

that our talent was as good as ole miss's. They have the edge on the perimeter, us down low.

8 other teams only have 1 player on the all sec team. So (according to your talent measuring scale) that puts us with or above the talent level of all but 2 teams. Obviously we don't have the talent of KY. TN is still a mystery.

I think there is plenty of reason to think we have the talent to be better than we are.

And frankly, the talent argument is a red herring. We had 2 first team all sec players AND the defensive player of the year 2 years ago and were an 8 seed.

I am talking about this season with the players we have now. I agree about 2 years ago but that is not what this topic is about. Our talent is every bit as good as Ole Miss and we have proven it by beating them. However Ole Miss isnot a Sweet 16type team either in my opinion, just like us.
I started this thread after watching some of the top teams around the nation.We have some talent on our team obviously but it does not compare with the top 10 or so teams nationally. That is my only point.

 

[8dog]

but those teams aren't the ones that always make it to the Sweet 16.

 

[fishwater99]

Hanmudog[/b]]Our talent is every bit as good as Ole Miss and we have proven it by beating them. However Ole Miss isnot a Sweet 16type team either in my opinion, just like us.
I started this thread after watching some of the top teams around the nation.We have some talent on our team obviously but it does not compare with the top 10 or so teams nationally. That is my only point.

No you said "Our talent level is no where near top 15 level with the current team we have."

We arepretty damn close, just one player away, so that is pretty damn near top 15 talent.The rebels are now #18 in one poll so they must have close to top 15 talent, and we have more talent than them overall. Stop making excuses for our coach, thatis all you are doing, trying to dismiss Stans faultly coaching by blaming it on our talent level. Nice Try.. I have never said we have Top 10 talent, but we do have top 25 talent and with thata "good" coach, he would develop a real offense andmake a run to the Sweet 16 sometime in 12 years of coaching.

 

[patdog]

Top 15-25 Talent makes it to the Sweet 16

If you can't figure out what's wrong with this statement, I can't help you.

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MSU has had top 15-25 talent several years since our Final Four, but we have not been close

We played both Duke and Memphis down to the wire in the 2nd round. We didn't get the job done, but you can't say we weren't close to the Sweet 16 those years.

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