No Cutler...
- Thread starter GMAN81
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Isn't that kind of what Pace is trying to do? He's moved on from some skilled players the past two years because they didnt fit into the long term plan and he didnt see a short term playoff. Time will tell if that plan works (his two top ten picks not turning out to be busts will be critical).
For the record, I wasnt a fan of Floyd or White picks, so I remain skeptical on that regards, but I do see some semblance of a plan and vision 21 months in.
My personal opinion, and I won't pretend to be an expert, is that Gase is definitely moving on from certain players and towards others to fit this scheme. So I agree with you there. Where I have a gripe though is whether this current scheme can actually be considered a long term plan. How long do we expect Jon Fox and co. to stay with the Bears? My concern is that they went out and got the big name coach to take some pressure off the GM, and that that big name coach isn't necessarily one that will be around for a while. Fox's contract expires just as Cutler gets into the expensive backend of his own (if he's even still around). Don't know how confident I am in Fox sticking around with a potentially rebuilding team 3 years from now. If he does leave at that point, we've just delayed the inevitable for 3 years instead of ripping off the bandaid.
I mean coaches are really important, but schemes can shift quickly if you have the players. Denver turned over their entire John Fox lead staff and won a Super Bowl the next year lol.
The reason the Bears suck is only one team has less homegrown players than the Bears. Years and Years of poor drafting have led us here. You can't draft out of it in 2 years, it's gonna take 3-4 good drafts and the last 2 1st Rd picks are questions right now. Neither is s guy you can say, wow. They are by no means busts but more wait and see.
This is it in a nutshell. You look at the teams that make the playoffs consistently and all of them are consistent performers in the draft.
Developing a great football team requires building from the ground up - or in the case of football, the O and D lines. The two teams in last years Super Bowl were among the best in both groupings. Protect the QB and pressure the QB are the two key things to winning every game.
You could put a hall of fame QB behind this O-line the Bears have and he wouldn't survive. On the flip side any running back in the league has to be licking his chops against this defense.
Unless this gets totally blowed up it ain't gettin any better.
Amen. Now take these facts, add to it an ownership group who doesn't care to be better than 'ok'; an older head coach with a contract expiring just as the starting QB's contract increases 7M$ over the current year; and a young, inexperienced GM who may not be able to afford the luxury of a 'rebuild year' to keep his job/reputation and my fear is we have the recipe for needing another rebuild (team + coaching staff) starting in 2018.
Of course I could be totally wrong and they win out the rest of the year. In which case, I knew it all along.
Whats this about a $7M a year increase for the QB?
I think your facts are a little mixed up.
I think your facts are a little mixed up.
Got a little ahead of myself. Cutler's contract drops from 16M this year to 12.5M with a 2.5M roster bonus next year. It then goes to 13.5M with a 2.5M roster bonus in 2018, before jumping back to 17.5M with a 2.5M roster bonus in 2019. Jon Fox's current contract will expire after the 2018 season.
At the point he'll have to decide if he wants to stick around with a Bears team that will be taking a 20M$$ cap hit on Cutler (if he's still on the team) in the 2019 season.
At the point he'll have to decide if he wants to stick around with a Bears team that will be taking a 20M$$ cap hit on Cutler (if he's still on the team) in the 2019 season.
After 2016 Jay is essentially on a series of 1 year deals that the Bears get get out from with minimal to no cap hit.
And I could see that as a plan going forward to clip him. The problem is they have to draft a QB. Essentially they haven't picked one above the fifth round and none of them panned out.
Stop using free agency and build through the draft. It works - its proven to work. Stop picking through other peoples dumpsters to build your team.
You have to build using all facets. You look at a team like Denver and they had a couple really key veteran pickups, and most Super Bowl winners do. The key is drafting well enough that you aren't constantly plugging a leak.
Newt: I agree with all of what you're saying. (surprise) But at the same time you MUST have an organization and ownership that is committed to winning and with the Bears we don't and haven't since George Halas died and Ditka was fired. I won't repeat everything you said. No need to.
We remember the Bears teams of the 80s. Yeah they only won one Super Bowl, BUT those were the best teams we ever saw...and will ever see again in our lifetimes. No one on this board will live to see that kind of a run again. That core was put together, for the most part, by George Halas and Jim Finks. Real football men. Although Finks resigned in 1982 over the Ditka hiring most of the core players of the 1985 team were there.
They made a lot of good draft picks, which leads me to another point. In order for a team to become solid and remain solid it MUST scout and draft well. That is something this organization simply isn't doing and hasn't been doing for years. Then, as someone said before, you add a couple of free agents to complete the picture and voila! You have a contender year after year.
By drafting well you also may get a guy or two who can be used in a trade deal to fill a spot both teams need. If you have nothing to trade you'll get nothing which is why I laugh when I hear Bears fans talk about trades that are good for us and bad for the other team. Football people aren't that stupid. If a team cuts a player there is generally a good reason. If a team gives up on a player it can be a mistake AKA, Julius Peppers. I don't know. Did Peppers just get good again when he left here? Or was he in a better organization? I believe the latter was true.
I think both the Jared Allen and Jon Bostic trades were good, though they border on inconsequential.
Wild Mustang,
I see your ability to predict High School success in Football and The Bears draw a significant parallel.
I see your ability to predict High School success in Football and The Bears draw a significant parallel.
Wild Mustang,
You like this? All your predicted teams are losing and have no more than 1 win on the season including the 1-5 Bears(0-2) inclusive of the preseason. Are you living in some type of alternate universe where losing is good?
You like this? All your predicted teams are losing and have no more than 1 win on the season including the 1-5 Bears(0-2) inclusive of the preseason. Are you living in some type of alternate universe where losing is good?
Maybe not everyone takes funny comments as a personal attack against his manhood. Props to Wstang for thumbs upping the shot at his Nostradamus skills or lack thereof.
As I said, I didn't like Jay Mariotti either. But the fact is, he was the only Chicago sportswriter now or then who had the balls to call out the owners in town with consistency. Ownership is the number one problem with the Bears and I don't care what anyone says.
Look at the difference in the Hawks. Bill Wurtz dies, Rocky takes over and it's as if that organization walked out of darkness into bright light. That team does well because they are committed to winning, first.
Look at the Cubs. Yeah, they had some good teams when the Tribune owned them. But I contend that things are different now. Much different. This year's team is better than any other Cub team I have ever seen. And they are going to be good for a while too.
We are not getting that with the Bears at all. We haven't been getting it for about 30 years either and really before that. They won a Super Bowl but when it came time to pay some players, that team was dismantled. And don't forget. Michael McCaskey swerved into the truth way back then when he said, "our goal is to be competitive." Translation: We want to win just enough to keep the stands near full in December...but not win the whole thing because then we would have to pay players and coaches more.
We can talk all we want about GMs, coaches and players, etc. but to me, for the most part, that conversation is a waste of time. It starts at the top.
Marriotti was the worst...Him and Bernstein are the same person. Still don't know how Berstein is on the radio. Without Mully & Hanley in the mornings I wouldn't listen to The Score. Goff & Speagle are tolerable, barely.
Why wouldn't I like it, it's funny and I'm mature. Try it sometime, it's amazing.
Bears stink....I was at the game Monday Night, so brutal. They're rebuilding, they just won't admit it. They won't be a good for another 2-3 years (I'm hoping). They are so far away and need so many starters and depth it's not even funny. Emory and Tresticles set us back 4-5 years.
Here are some stats for you guys about the Bears...
- 5 playoff appearances in 24 years (3 of those were with Lovie)
- Not 1 draft pick from the 2011 draft and before is still on the team. Do you realize how bad that is? Not 1 draft pick. To add to it, only Alshon is left from the 2012 draft class and I believe there are only 2 left from the 2013 draft class.
- Without the 85 Bears they are the Browns, if not worse.
I hope they tank this year, I hope they royally blow and blow bad. Get draft picks and pray they don't F them up like they have in the past.
I like John Fox and I like Ryan Pace but we'll see if they can turn this around. It's bad right now, it's really bad.
So, I watched some of the New England, Houston game. Don't tell me it's not ownership or a system. How many people on this board knew who Jacoby Brissett was a few weeks ago? I didn't either. Yeah he went to NC State but he wasn't on my radar.
They Pats completely undressed the Texans. And don't tell me the Texans are pretenders. I'd like to know how many 3rd string QBs are gonna step in and win and NFL game. No, he didn't have a huge night throwing the ball. But he did look pretty damned good.
No Tom Brady and here the Patriots are at 3-0. Best system in the NFL by far.
They Pats completely undressed the Texans. And don't tell me the Texans are pretenders. I'd like to know how many 3rd string QBs are gonna step in and win and NFL game. No, he didn't have a huge night throwing the ball. But he did look pretty damned good.
No Tom Brady and here the Patriots are at 3-0. Best system in the NFL by far.
I can't agree more. The ownership and coach are head and shoulders better than the Bears. The system they run is better than any team in the league. Let's not even talk about the QB. Just wait until they get Brady is back. Patriots are poised to win another SB. The Bears are poised to set a different record. Team with the most losses. Yeah and they still have a QB that wants to take himself out of games.
The next national anthem protest I see in the NFL and I am turning off the NFL for the rest of the year and starting my own flag football games on Sunday.
I'm assuming that will be just before noon today.
Wassup
I'm assuming that will be just before noon today.
Wassup
Corey, as far as a QB who wants to take himself out of a game goes, nothing could be further from the truth with Cutler. The guy is a tough QB and most people agree on that. A player and coaches need to know the difference between pain and injury. Obviously they didn't in the Eagles game. Cutler didn't get hit in that game to cause the injury. The injury was there when the game started. Cutler tried to play with it and couldn't. It was pretty obvious he couldn't control the ball when he threw it. So, he came out. Cutler couldn't play with an injury no QB can play with.
You are letting your hatred of Cutler cloud your objectivity and better judgement.
And by the way, the injury has put him on the bench for several weeks. So it's more serious than the Cutler haters think.
Honestly, Wassup, I wasn't even thinking about that yesterday at all. The media are the ones giving this legs. Without the media it goes nowhere and is forgotten. It won't change anything anyway AND is not having an impact on anything.
I believe it has gotten to the point where some of the guys "protesting" are just looking for attention for themselves. In other words, there are exploiting the situation and should be ashamed of themselves.
The narrative of Cutler being "not tough" is so wrong and driven by the national media. You can hate Jay, think he sucks but that narrative is a big injustice to him. It is simply not true and he is actually the opposite, he is tough if you have been paying attention over the years.
Basically nothing he does is right. If he leaves due to injury, hes not tough. If he toughs out an injury he's being selfish and hurting the team. If he looks glum on the sideline he has no passion and is a poor leader. If he gets in a teammates face, he's showing up his teammates and is a bad leader. There is a spin for every scenario.
For all practical purposes, it seemed the Bears' season was basically over after week 2. They removed any doubt in Week 3. The roster is pretty thin. Add in all the injuries, and they are simply overmatched against just about all of the NFL (with a few possible exceptions).
Regarding Cutler, I thought Ron Jaworski had some interesting comments after the Eagles game. He said if you watched the game and didn't know anything about either QB. You would have thought Wentz was the veteran (based on his mechanics, decision making etc.), and Cutler was the rookie. Cutler has always had poor mechanics. He's been prone to the big interception or fumble throughout his career. After 11 years in the league, that will not change. The Bears are going to have a very high pick in the upcoming draft. They have numerous needs. However, it's time they seriously address their QB situation via the next draft. They've not done so in years. JMHO
Regarding Cutler, I thought Ron Jaworski had some interesting comments after the Eagles game. He said if you watched the game and didn't know anything about either QB. You would have thought Wentz was the veteran (based on his mechanics, decision making etc.), and Cutler was the rookie. Cutler has always had poor mechanics. He's been prone to the big interception or fumble throughout his career. After 11 years in the league, that will not change. The Bears are going to have a very high pick in the upcoming draft. They have numerous needs. However, it's time they seriously address their QB situation via the next draft. They've not done so in years. JMHO
I said it so many times it is tiresome. Cutler is a cancer has been a cancer. Fox is even tired of him.
I think he said Cutler was not guaranteed his job back. Surprise surprise!
Unfortunately we live in a society of people who read stories online from sources like Yahoo, AOL and Huffington Post, among others, who take their garbage as Gospel. They don't question the validity of the story or the facts and worse yet, they spread the lies.
In Corey's defense he said he "thinks" Fox said Cutler was not guaranteed his job back. He didn't say it as fact. Just a small note.
This Bears team is a mess...no doubt. From the injuries, to the failure on the field, it is hard to watch and I must say I didn't watch much of the game Sunday night after Dallas ran out to a solid lead.
Think about this. The Bears are 0-3. In a baseball analogy, it would be like a major league team starting out the season 0-30. Forget about post season. Just doing the math...for every game you play in NFL football, you play approximately 10 in baseball and you play five in basketball and hockey. How much interest would you have if your baseball team started out 0-30? Or if your hockey or basketball team started out 0-15? Not much at all.
After this season the Bears will have missed the playoffs for the 9th time in the last 10 years.
I'm a season ticket holder and put all my tickets up for sale after the Eagles game. No way I am going to spending more money than I already have on this franchise. I already sold the Vikings and Packers tix for 2 and 3 times the face value, respectively.
I hope other teams fans come in and invade the stadium, take it over, send the players, coaches and Bears organization a message because apparently missing the playoffs 9 out of 10 years is okay with them. 19 out of 25 years after this season as well.
Also, add Kyle Fuller another bust out 1st round draft pick by the Bears. He'll be cut next year.
I'm a season ticket holder and put all my tickets up for sale after the Eagles game. No way I am going to spending more money than I already have on this franchise. I already sold the Vikings and Packers tix for 2 and 3 times the face value, respectively.
I hope other teams fans come in and invade the stadium, take it over, send the players, coaches and Bears organization a message because apparently missing the playoffs 9 out of 10 years is okay with them. 19 out of 25 years after this season as well.
Also, add Kyle Fuller another bust out 1st round draft pick by the Bears. He'll be cut next year.
6 new QB's in the NFL this year which have a combined record this year of 11-2 and have played well enough to be 13-0.
Wassup
Wassup
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