New Coach expectations

[expireddog]

So Moorhead came in with pretty high expectations due to returning talent and it didn’t go so well and only got worse.

If we hire Judge for instance is he given a little more time for growing pains since we aren’t expecting a 10 win team next year.

Also whoever the new coach is, please don’t get off plane asking about ring sizes.

 

[tatedog]

To be honest, I don't think Moorhead's BS about ring sizes etc was based one bit on what he had returning. He would've given the exact same lines if he was taking over from Jackie in 2004.

 

[Oak23]

Yes, I think he automatically will get a period of “building”. The difference from last time is that a rebuilding was not needed just basically hold serve. However, now a rebuild Is needed. So, yes, I think a rebuilding period will be a little more understandable. I just hate It that last time State was a top15-20 program which took years to build, and now it’s not. It may not take that long to build back though since the road map is in place on how to do it.

 

[JungRebel]

He better do better than 14-12.

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

New coach won’t have the 85 Bears...

 

[catvet]

Win. Look organized. Win. Play hard. Win

 

[MSUDC11]

He will not walk in the door with the same expectations that Moorhead did. Not many people will fuss if we only win 6 or 7 games next year but look competent.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Thing about Judge is he played here and played on some of the best teams we've ever had right? So, he has an idea what it takes and he's got MSU in his blood. Apparently he's always wanted to be the job and he's been a GA here before already under Crooms.

He's planning on bringing in lots of guys familiar with the SECW and recruiting in the SEC. He's getting his PhD in education from State right now I've read as well.

To me, it's similar to a Jomo hiring only bc it's kinda outta no where and on paper they both seem smart, only difference is Joe Judge actually understands what the SEC is all about and MSU before ever taking the job. Jomo thought he knew everything bc he was arrogant.

ETA: He played here from 2000-2004, so he was on 1 good team in 2000.

 

[Shmuley]

Intense. Driven. Highly organized. Hard ***. Relentless recruiter/closer. Demands that every 17n person on the football payroll gives 100% effort when it comes to recruiting and selling the program. Wears shoes. Gives no 17s about ring sizes.

 

[drumrcraig]

Thing about Judge is he played here and played on some of the best teams we've ever had right?

Yeah, he was on the team from 2000-2004, so he played of some pretty bad teams his entire career.

 

[shotgunDawg]

- Consistently top 25
- Program should be ranked somewhere between 13-20 on average
- Top 25 recruiting classes every year.
- Buildings towards SECW competing roster every 3-4 years.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Rebuilding is not needed. We still have a top 25 roster in terms of talent and we are built to run an option spread still.

There is no rebuild needed. We should maintain a 7 win floor, but actually have a team playing hard and tough and organized.

 

[The Situation]

Yes, I think he automatically will get a period of “building”. The difference from last time is that a rebuilding was not needed just basically hold serve. However, now a rebuild Is needed. So, yes, I think a rebuilding period will be a little more understandable. I just hate It that last time State was a top15-20 program which took years to build, and now it’s not. It may not take that long to build back though since the road map is in place on how to do it.

What are you even attempting to talk about. If anything, THIS year was the rebuild year. This program doesn't need a rebuild, we are ready to roll, after 3 good recruiting classes. 2020 will probably be a 6-6 type year, but nothing needs to be rebuilt, the program is in good shape.

I honestly think some of our more idiotic fans, like Oak23, expected 2018 to be 10-2, and then 2019 be an improvement on that. Because trajectory n ****.

 

[Nunya.sixpack]

hot wife. or... if older coach, a hot college aged daughter.

 

[The Situation]

Wears shoes.

What about shorts?

 

[MedDawg]

What are you even attempting to talk about. If anything, THIS year was the rebuild year.

So, wait. 2019 was a rebuiding year and we still made a bowl and beat OM? You mean we shouldn't have fired Moorhead?

 

[johnson86-1]

What are you even attempting to talk about. If anything, THIS year was the rebuild year. This program doesn't need a rebuild, we are ready to roll, after 3 good recruiting classes. 2020 will probably be a 6-6 type year, but nothing needs to be rebuilt, the program is in good shape.

I honestly think some of our more idiotic fans, like Oak23, expected 2018 to be 10-2, and then 2019 be an improvement on that. Because trajectory n ****.

We don't need a rebuild but the new coach is not walking into the 2018 team either. Next year's expectations are get bowl eligible and not look like a cluster17. Anything beyond that is gravy.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

The problems with Moorhead were much bigger than wins/losses, although we have clearly underachieved In that regard given our talent/schedule in recent years- especially last year.

We routinely do not look prepared. How many times have we had a 3 and out or turnover in the first drive of every game? How many times did we have to call a timeout to start a quarter or before the first play of a drive? How many times were we behind 3+ TDs before the end of the first quarter against good teams?
The program lacked discipline. We had an unreal amount of personal foul penalties in 2018. A lot of that cleaned up in 2019 on the field, but the off the field there were a lot of issues that are pretty well documented.
We looked out of shape this year and had a severe lack of team speed. Our conditioning was clearly not up to par. Not sure if this was on Joe or Cohen for not opening the checkbook, but it needs to change.
Joe is pretty thin skinned and a self proclaimed people pleaser. Not sure if that is the kind of personality needed to run an SEC program. His press conference rants were getting pretty routine and started rubbing people the wrong way.
His “innovating offense” was nonexistent. This was his biggest issue, IMO. He was brought in to run this cutting edge, creative offense, but his scheme was bland and ineffective against defenses with a pulse.

My expectations are pretty simple and don’t have much to do with actual wins/losses.

Work hard in recruiting. Joe did this, and the next guy should too. I don’t expect a top 20 class every year, but don’t get outworked. Get you share of players in state, recruit AL, LA, and some in TN/GA. Sign highly rated guys that we have ties to and be a good talent evaluator.

Demand effort and discipline. I don’t feel like we always have great effort this year, especially against Auburn or Kansas State. I also don’t expect choir boys, but don’t accept the stuff that has happened this year.

Be prepared to play every week. Have a plan and at least don’t get blown out within five minutes of a game. Pretty self explanatory.

Be creative, both offensively and defensively. Run schemes that make you difficult to prepare for and work within the talent our recruiting footprint provides (ie, physical).

Do those things and the wins will take care of themselves.

 

[maroonmania]

Pretty simple. As much as I liked Joe personally, he was running a program with no discipline and no accountability and he wasn't pushing his players during the season or in the offseason to develop and maximize their talents. That's why we underachieved both years under him. It would have kept getting worse. To me, even the academic tutor stuff, given the large number of players involved, shows me that our guys felt little accountability to their teammates and coaches wrt their off the field behavior and there was little concern about any punishment from the coaching staff. You could probably put the off field fight in the same category.

 

[Cap'n Geech]

I don't understand why the new coach should have lower expectations than Moorhead. When we hired Moorhead we were one year removed from a 5-7 season. We won more regular season games in two years under Moorhead than we did in Mullen's last two years. Why should we expect less from the new coach? And the next two years should be easier schedules than 2018-2019. We should walk to 14 wins over the next two seasons. I don't see why the new coach should have a lower bar than Moorhead. If the bar was higher with Moorhead, why did we fire him?

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Look at my ETA and notice how I asked a question, but he was on one pretty good team. Upset #3 Florida.

 

[The Situation]

So, wait. 2019 was a rebuiding year and we still made a bowl and beat OM? You mean we shouldn't have fired Moorhead?

You all know my posting history. I'm not convinced that firing him was the best plan. I am waiting to see who we hire.

 

[The Situation]

We don't need a rebuild but the new coach is not walking into the 2018 team either. Next year's expectations are get bowl eligible and not look like a cluster17. Anything beyond that is gravy.

I am more making fun of that guy for thinking the program has fundamentally changed in one year.

 

[maroonmania]

I don't understand why the new coach should have lower expectations than Moorhead. When we hired Moorhead we were one year removed from a 5-7 season. We won more regular season games in two years under Moorhead than we did in Mullen's last two years. Why should we expect less from the new coach? And the next two years should be easier schedules than 2018-2019. We should walk to 14 wins over the next two seasons. I don't see why the new coach should have a lower bar than Moorhead. If the bar was higher with Moorhead, why did we fire him?

Because you have to take into consideration the talent the new coach will be working with. The new coach unfortunately won't be handed one of the best defenses in MSU history with 3 first round draft picks like Moorhead was. Nor will he be given a 5th year SR QB who was the best rushing QB in the history of the SEC. I do think the new coach would be expected to do as well or better than the 2019 MSU team though assuming Shrader or KT are back and especially if Hill decides to come back. Defense should be a little better in 2020 although still nowhere close to the 2018 defense.

 

[johnson86-1]

I don't understand why the new coach should have lower expectations than Moorhead. When we hired Moorhead we were one year removed from a 5-7 season. We won more regular season games in two years under Moorhead than we did in Mullen's last two years. Why should we expect less from the new coach? And the next two years should be easier schedules than 2018-2019. We should walk to 14 wins over the next two seasons. I don't see why the new coach should have a lower bar than Moorhead. If the bar was higher with Moorhead, why did we fire him?

He won't have lower expectations. He will be expected to get a play off without a delay of game the first offensive play of the game and after timeouts. He will be expected to field a team that looks like they practiced the week before when we have a bye week. He will be expected to have a team that doesn't lose key players to injuries suffered in fights with teammates. His side of the ball should not look like a cluster17. Those are the things that killed Moorhead. If he had met those expectations and won 14 games over two years, he would still be here. OF course, if he had met those expectations, it would have been hard for him to win less than 16 games over two years with the roster he inherited.

 

[MedDawg]

You all know my posting history. I'm not convinced that firing him was the best plan. I am waiting to see who we hire.

I didn't know. I was supporting Moorhead until the bowl game. Even rationalized the UT loss because they finished the season 7-1. After the bowl game, I didn't think there were any supporters left. That's fine that you were hesitant to fire Moorhead. We won't know who is right for a year or two. And we will kind of never really know.

 

[Cap'n Geech]

Moorhead inherited a very talented defense. We got what we needed to get out of our defensive talent in 2018: best in the country in yards allowed/game and yards allowed/play (all games AND vs. P5 only). Unfortunately, Moorhead didn't inherit the talent he needed on offense for his system. Our receiving corps in 2018 was G5-caliber. Moorhead was recruiting for his system. We improved statistically on offense from 2018 to 2019 despite injuries at quarterback. Stevens and Shrader were both healthy for one game: ULL. I believe we would have continued to improve in 2020 with Shrader and better receivers. I'm not making excuses for Moorhead. He's gone. I'm just curious why we are already making excuses for the unnamed new coach.

 

[Nunya.sixpack]

I'm just curious why we are already making excuses for the unnamed new coach.

because we're so-so at it... which is better than most other things we can do at this moment.

 

[The Peeper]

Rebuilding not needed, are you serious? You evidently spend a lot of time on the "Sunshine Pumpers" message board.

-Have you seen our receivers, they are PITIFUL and have been for YEARS dating back to Billy Gonzalez and Mullen. Who do you see stepping up? (and don't say Osirus Mitchell)
-Our top returning rusher had 31 rushes last season, that's 1 games worth for a good back.
-Our QB was a true FR (assuming he stays around) had a TD to INT ration of 8/5 and only completed 57% of his passes.
-Our OL got MANHANDLED by a very small Louisville DL that was ranked #112 in the country out of 116.
-Our DB's got TORCHED against Louisville and anybody else that threw the ball this year.
-Errol Thompson is leaning toward leaving.
-Willie Gay is leaving (good riddance)

Please tell me, what are we NOT rebuilding?????

 

[Captain Obvious.sixpack]

Judge played on some of the absolute worst teams in MSU history. That in itself isn't a knock against him, but JWS final 3 seasons and the entire Croom tenure were riddled with disciplinary issues and unaccountability. I've been hearing for years that he'd be a great coach someday, but personally it takes more than a recommendation from Billy B. I'm sure he's learned plenty about accountability in NE, but those guys also don't have the best track record once they leave the family. Maybe Judge will be different. Whoever gets the job will get at least 3-4 years. They're coming in at rock bottom. Not Croom-level, but the cupboard is pretty bare, especially on offense. As long as the new HC is organized and is competitive, he'll get a fair shot. The biggest thing about Moorhead, IMO, was that people were never going to forgive him for losing 5 games with the 2018 defense. Then he made it worse with the off-field issues and repeatedly being unprepared after bye weeks, bowl layoffs, timeouts, etc. Those were all nails in the coffin.

 

[MSUDC11]

He won't have lower expectations. He will be expected to get a play off without a delay of game the first offensive play of the game and after timeouts. He will be expected to field a team that looks like they practiced the week before when we have a bye week. He will be expected to have a team that doesn't lose key players to injuries suffered in fights with teammates. His side of the ball should not look like a cluster17. Those are the things that killed Moorhead. If he had met those expectations and won 14 games over two years, he would still be here. OF course, if he had met those expectations, it would have been hard for him to win less than 16 games over two years with the roster he inherited.

Correct. We would’ve been OK with 14-12 if we hadn’t looked so bad doing that. Wins and losses matter, but the “how” played a huge part in Joe being gone.

 

[drumrcraig]

Wouldn't the fact that Pats players don't seem to behave as well after they leave show that they know how to keep players in line? You say it like it is a knock that they can't run a disciplined program.

 

[maroonmania]

I don't think his offense would have ever worked here consistently given our recruiting footprint. He needs offensive players, especially at QB, that can make multiple reads before and during plays along with elite WRs. With the speed of SEC defenses that was not going to work. Even at MSU the offense worked pretty well against bad defenses. And the funny thing is that Stevens and Shrader combined had about the same rushing attempts as Fitz did last year which again showed the offense worked best when the QB was big in the run game.

 

[Cap'n Geech]

In 2019 our team talent composite was #23. Our 2020 recruiting class is currently ranked #27. If we aren't top-25 in terms of talent, we are very close.